Off-duty cop, OCing, shoots, kills firefighter.

Jesus, you guys, listen to yourselves.

I'm one to call cops out on misconduct just as much as the next guy, but you have to put yourself in his situation. If someone has you pinned to the ground and is beating your face in, can you really say with a straight face that you wouldn't draw and fire? Because I sure as hell would.

SovereignAxe said:

Jesus, you guys, listen to yourselves.

I'm one to call cops out on misconduct just as much as the next guy, but you have to put yourself in his situation. If someone has you pinned to the ground and is beating your face in, can you really say with a straight face that you wouldn't draw and fire? Because I sure as hell would.

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As a private security guard, he shouldn't have tried dealing with an off property problem. He should have used his phone first, not his gun.

Dave_pro2a said:

Whut? Assault is grounds for justifiable self defense?

That cabbie should not have assaulted* the female passenger by throwing something in her face, resulting in her husband beating the cabbie in the face.

So the cop killed a guy who was defending his wife.


*Throw something in a cops face and you're pretty much guaranteed an assault charge, be it a dollar bill, an empty starbucks cup, a baseball hat, etc.

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Someone throwing money in you, or your wife's, face is not grounds for battery.

It scares me that anyone who visits this site and who OC's would ever see escalating that kind of minor incident into battery as okay. One of the most basic tenets of carrying a firearm is that you never escalate a situation you can walk away from. For instance, my main problem with the Zimmerman case was not that he shot Martin in that moment. It was that he probably chose to continue and to escalate a completely non-violent situation out of anger, while armed.

This guy was not defending his wife. Defending his wife would have been paying the fare that was due, getting everyone out of the cab, and getting a new cab (which is super easy at a downtown hotel, even at that time of night) to take the cousin home. Instead he did one of the most harmful things he could possibly do to her, he commited multiple crimes and then get himself shot and killed. Being a man frequently means walking away, even from confrontations you know you could "win".

Also, when you send someone who is drunk home alone in a cab you pay extra because you are basically handing off the responsibility for that person's well-being to the cabbie. So you are paying for him to act like he cares, such as by actually taking the person where you asked, and maybe even helping them to their door. You are also pushing for the possibility the driver will lose the rest of his fares that night due to having to clean the vomit out of his car.

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Dave_pro2a said:

As a private security guard, he shouldn't have tried dealing with an off property problem. He should have used his phone first, not his gun.

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That right there ^^ is the problem with "off-duty" cops. They claim to be "off-duty" until some crime goes down in front of them and then claim that their department mandates that they must respond as a LEO.

And check to see who pays any Workers Comp claim for injuries sustained by an "off-duty" cop.

I can hire a private security officer who gets paid (around here) about $12.50/hr and they will "Observe and Report" the heck out of anything that goes down on their assigned post. They have no duty to report a fire next door unless it threatens the property they are assigned to. They have no duty to physically intervene in anything that takes place off their post.

OR

I can hire my own law enforcement officer at time-and-a-half of his regular "on-duty" pay rate to enforce all laws on my property, that I could not get them to do just moments before when they were "on-duty" because they are only obligated to provide police service to the community as opposed to any specific person or business.

Now getting to whether or not the guy in the cop suit (my way of avoiding the on-duty/off-duty conundrum) legitimately had reason to fear death or serious bodily injury - can't tell from the video. But if he did, and he shot to STOP THE THREAT of death or serious bodily injury, as opposed to intending to kill the guy, then it probably will be ruled excusable homicide. (Law lesson: when cops kill someone in self defense it is excusable; when you kill someone in self defense it is justified.)

stay safe.

arentol said:

Someone throwing money in you, or your wife's, face is not grounds for battery.

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If a cab driver threw something in a cops face, what would be the likely outcome?

arentol said:

One of the most basic tenets of carrying a firearm is that you never escalate a situation you can walk away from. For instance, my main problem with the Zimmerman case was not that he shot Martin in that moment. It was that he probably chose to continue and to escalate a completely non-violent situation out of anger, while armed.

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Ahh, you mean like a private security guard going off property to get involved with an altercation.

skidmark said:

(Law lesson: when cops kill someone in self defense it is excusable; when you kill someone in self defense it is justified.)

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You forgot the part where a 1* attitude = every shooting is 'excusable'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-11e3-878c-65222df220eb_story.html?tid=pm_pop

A police officer in South Carolina shot a 70-year-old motorist who was reaching for a cane during a traffic stop because he thought the man was grabbing a rifle from the bed of his pickup truck.. Deputy Knox’s actions were an appropriate response

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Oh Noze, old man has cane! BANG! (bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and more bang)

From what I can tell, the cop screwed up by answering the hecklers and when he took his attention off the deceased he opened himself up for the takedown.

Justified shooting? Yes.
Avoidable? Yes. As a LEO, he should know enough to get help before attempting to fight someone.

Those ********** with the camera are partially responsible IMO.
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Dave_pro2a said:

Ahh, you mean like a private security guard going off property to get involved with an altercation.

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If he is a police officer by profession and had to go to college to become one, does he suddenly have no profession the instant he clocks out? Are soldiers only soldiers when not on leave?

He made a few mistakes, yes, but he was in the right. The simple fact that the idiot tried to beat him unconscious was proof enough who was in the right mindset.

Haven't we all watched police officers beat a man or woman to.death on YouTube? This officer was simply trying to restrain the ******* and could have lost his service weapon to someone who looked like he was trying to kill the cop.

Take it from me, a lifelong martial artist. That ********* had it coming.
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wimwag said:

If he is a police officer by profession and had to go to college to become one, does he suddenly have no profession the instant he clocks out? Are soldiers only soldiers when not on leave?

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Well is UPS driver still a UPS driver when off the clock? Is he obligated to accept a package for delivery if he is just waiting in line to watch a movie at a theater?

Is a Librarian still a Librarian when off the clock? Should she be obligated to answer reference questions on her 'off duty' time, just because she went to college to earn a Masters of Library Science?

From the news article:


Just a little wrestling between friends?
Stupid undrunk (according to his wife) firefighter shouldn't have been trying to bash the brains in of Officer Hubbard, let alone security guard Hubbard.
Gets my 2014 Darwin award vote.

Hope Officer Hubbard heals completely.

HPmatt said:

From the news article:

Hubbard was taken to a hospital as well. His injuries included a broken eye socket, a fractured cheekbone, a cut above his left eye that required two stitches and loss of feeling in the left side of his face.
​

Just a little wrestling between friends?
Stupid undrunk (according to his wife) firefighter shouldn't have been trying to bash the brains in of Officer Hubbard, let alone security guard Hubbard.
Gets my 2014 Darwin award vote.

Hope Officer Hubbard heals completely.

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+1 well said.

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Dave_pro2a said:

Well is UPS driver still a UPS driver when off the clock? Is he obligated to accept a package for delivery if he is just waiting in line to watch a movie at a theater?

Is a Librarian still a Librarian when off the clock? Should she be obligated to answer reference questions on her 'off duty' time, just because she went to college to earn a Masters of Library Science?

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Don't forget, should cops be allowed off-duty carry in sports stadium when they're there to drink overpriced beer and eat hot dogs and root for their team?

Dave_pro2a said:

Well is UPS driver still a UPS driver when off the clock? Is he obligated to accept a package for delivery if he is just waiting in line to watch a movie at a theater?

Is a Librarian still a Librarian when off the clock? Should she be obligated to answer reference questions on her 'off duty' time, just because she went to college to earn a Masters of Library Science?

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Did the librarian take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States? How about the UPS driver? Or is he maybe a Brown Institute student doing work study?

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mikeyb said:

Don't forget, should cops be allowed off-duty carry in sports stadium when they're there to drink overpriced beer and eat hot dogs and root for their team?

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Nothing to do with the topic. Nobody should carry while drinking. Unless they like being shot by cops.

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Now I am far from a lover of cops...but I'm gonna call out bashing when I see it. Why so disrespectful? Would you say that to an officer's face? (I already know the answer...it's NO.)

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wimwag said:

Did the librarian take an oath to protect and defend the [strike]Constitution of the United States[/strike] Hilton Hotel?

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You almost got that right.

wimwag said:

Now I am far from a lover of cops...but I'm gonna call out bashing when I see it. Why so disrespectful? Would you say that to an officer's face? (I already know the answer...it's NO.)

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Well said wimwag. Don't need to "love" anyone to see when there is a bias afoot.

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Dave_pro2a said:

You almost got that right.

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No rebuttal? Is it different when former gang members stand up to you than cops? I expected a little more lip out of you. Not that it isn't entertaining to watch you gurgle the same stupid anti-cop crap every other welfare loving retard does.

You're probably just bashing Ofc. Hubbard because your wife emasculates you and this is how you cope. Sad little boy. Get lost.

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Primus said:

Well said wimwag. Don't need to "love" anyone to see when there is a bias afoot.

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This doesn't make us buddies. Yet.

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