Please cite the qualifications required for the job.
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Off-duty cop, OCing, shoots, kills firefighter.
- Thread starter deanf
- Start date
Please cite the qualifications required for the job.
deanf
Regular Member
Not sure why you would ask this. It seemed that an escalation of force was required, not deescalation (to ensure the man's violence was put to a stop). What would you have them do to "deescalate", whisper softly in the detainee's ear? Please. Because the officer did not have help, he was forced to use the maximum amount of force possible. If he'd had help to subdue the man, professional or otherwise, we might not be talking about this.
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Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
That would change my mind, unfortunately I can not find anywhere in the article where it says Hubbard witnessed the battery. The article states Bruno battered the Cab driver but it does not say Hubbard witnessed that battery. It does indicate that Hubbard witnessed 3 other individuals argue with Bruno and almost start a fight but then it also says Bruno was walking away, is that no what one is supposed to do?
I'd forgotten where I read that, sorry. Found it: http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2...e-caught-video-cops-blame-videographer-death/
I do not know if this writer knows this or is surmising it, though. I haven't watched the video, so I can't state that the cop did witness the battery.
I do not know if this writer knows this or is surmising it, though. I haven't watched the video, so I can't state that the cop did witness the battery.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
Like I said if Hubbard witnessed the battery on the Cab driver then my opinion would be changed.
DocWalker
Regular Member
I guess it was taught to me by my father, the military, medical training, and/or when I went to the acadamy. Help other and don't just sit there and watch people die.....
Dam I wish I could be more passive.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
I helped a Cop one time and I will never do it again.
DocWalker
Regular Member
In this situation I didn't see it so much as helping the cop but stepping in might have saved the firefighters life. We all know standing there watching and doing nothing didn't help, a person is dead be he inocent of guilty of something.
I can't just automatically fault someone for not stepping in.
How many times have cops shot someone because they assumed bad intent? We are seeing the shooting of a man getting his cane just this week.
A cop in the middle of a fight, and the only possible scenario (in his mind at the time) is that the guy's friend is coming over to help him, not the cop. Now we have two people shot, and the other wrongly.
I'm also leery of automatically assuming anyone in a uniform is a cop. It's only a matter of time before it is far more prevalent for impersonators to use them for more and more evil.
If I came across two men fighting, not having seen what started it, I can't automatically assume the one in uniform is a cop, nor that he is the good guy. What is it that cops teach us to do? Stay out of it, and be a good witness. Hmmm, might be a perfect time for that.
Of course, you have the option to intervene, if you really think you know who the good guy is and you are willing to risk everyone else knowing you are another good guy.
How many times have cops shot someone because they assumed bad intent? We are seeing the shooting of a man getting his cane just this week.
A cop in the middle of a fight, and the only possible scenario (in his mind at the time) is that the guy's friend is coming over to help him, not the cop. Now we have two people shot, and the other wrongly.
I'm also leery of automatically assuming anyone in a uniform is a cop. It's only a matter of time before it is far more prevalent for impersonators to use them for more and more evil.
If I came across two men fighting, not having seen what started it, I can't automatically assume the one in uniform is a cop, nor that he is the good guy. What is it that cops teach us to do? Stay out of it, and be a good witness. Hmmm, might be a perfect time for that.
Of course, you have the option to intervene, if you really think you know who the good guy is and you are willing to risk everyone else knowing you are another good guy.
DocWalker
Regular Member
You have a point but in this case there is enough evidence on the video to tell that the guy is either a cop or "armed" security. If the cop was the bad guy then his gun would have come into play before it did.
Is the cop wrong for shooting the guy, probably not from the video we have seen. Should it have escalated to that...heck NO.
When they were wrestling the camera man was talking, he could have offered help.
That is the problem with sociaty today, Nobody wants to get involved to help others and in this case one is dead and one will need some serious counsling. This is a lose lose situation that could have been avoided.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
Well said If you did not see every thing go down you could actually be helping the bad guy, and yes sometimes that bad guy is wearing a uniform.
Last time I helped I was cuffed as roughly as they could manage without drawing blood and then was jacked in the ribs twice by one of his buddies right before he removed the cuffs after he knew I had helped. Never again. There is nothing like getting cuffed by three Cops when they think you were in on hurting their buddy. The Cop I helped was yelling at them the entire time that I had helped him but they did not listen. You would have thought they might have noticed me and the Cop were holding the guy down when they arrived.
OC for ME
Regular Member
The cop was in uniform and as such his status is irrelevant. RSMo 565.081,.082, and .083 make it a crime to assault a cop.
I suspect that the cop was authorized to engage Bruno. Bruno made a poor choice when confronted by a uniformed cop. He should have submitted to the cops authority and then pursued a redress of wrongs later.
RSMo 544 enumerates the powers that a cop in MO has regarding arrests. RSMo 544.216 specifically provides the authority for the cop to engage Bruno in my view:
Bruno resisted arrest. This entire incident is on Bruno and no other person.
No winners, only losers.
I suspect that the cop was authorized to engage Bruno. Bruno made a poor choice when confronted by a uniformed cop. He should have submitted to the cops authority and then pursued a redress of wrongs later.
RSMo 544 enumerates the powers that a cop in MO has regarding arrests. RSMo 544.216 specifically provides the authority for the cop to engage Bruno in my view:
It is reported that the cop was responding to a report of a assault. He had a reasonable belief based on the report he received/heard. As a reminder, there is no such thing as a detainment in MO, only arrest. Whether or not the cop cuffs and stuffs, or just talks, once you submit to his authority you are under arrest.
Bruno resisted arrest. This entire incident is on Bruno and no other person.
No winners, only losers.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
Well said .
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DocWalker
Regular Member
Why the double post???
DocWalker
Regular Member
I hope you got a nice settlement from the department....if not you are stupid for not suing.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
Not sure why it did that I will kill one of them,
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
No I did not sue, what good would that have done my word against 6 or 8 cops unless I got lucky and found an outside witness.
Thanks for the stupid comment it lets me know about the quality of the person addressing my post.
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Good for you, but a majority of the people do not go into the military, nor have medical training nor attend the acadamy (sic). Heck, a good amount of people don't grow up with a father....
Nor are people compelled to intervene in a situation that can become and in fact did become deadly. Especially a film crew. (Full disclosure: my oldest daughter is a film major at Montana State University and is proficient with her handgun) Most film majors are probably not along the same internal makeup as you or I or anyone on this forum.
Just a perspective that we need to understand exists...
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
The use of force applies to all, once the threat is no longer imminent the use of force diminishes according to the threat.
The encounter with the officer is legitimate regardless of being off duty or not and when faced with imminent threat of life or limb the officer had every right to stop that threat and he did well within the law.
Viewing the video and the report, the Officer was completely justified in defending himself.
The encounter with the officer is legitimate regardless of being off duty or not and when faced with imminent threat of life or limb the officer had every right to stop that threat and he did well within the law.
Viewing the video and the report, the Officer was completely justified in defending himself.
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