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Thread: Officer shoots 70 yo man reaching for his cane.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Officer shoots 70 yo man reaching for his cane.

    Last edited by Maverick9; 02-27-2014 at 08:53 AM.

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    G00gle Real time coverage ~90 articles

    https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl=dzMcoizEev_hqKM
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Non story.....

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I find this highly suspicious. Most people won't get out of their car. A disabled person even less likely to do so.

    He did survive. Be interesting to hear his side.

    If indeed he did get out and reached for something he might have a hard time collecting anything in a suit. Should have stayed in the car.

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    That's interesting, "should have" for a traffic stop arrest without warrant.

    The reason cops want to come to your window is to take the extra-legal sniff and peek search.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    “The situation is very unfortunate,” Faris said, reading from a statement at a news conference. “It does appear, at this time, that Deputy Knox’s actions were an appropriate response to what he reasonably believed to be an imminent threat to his life.”
    "Appropriate"?????

    Not "appearing appropriate."

    But, "appropriate."

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    one day a kid with a wii controller, the next day an old man with a cane.... yikes. i keep my hands on the wheel and show my papers when asked.

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    So, you are pleased to live in that world where you must be servile to survive? GeeZeus, kill me now.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    So, you are pleased to live in that world where you must be servile to survive? GeeZeus, kill me now.
    No, you're smart. You don't have expired stickers, or speed or break traffic laws. Every stop on the road has a potential to lose your life - after all it's a stranger with a deadly weapon.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 02-27-2014 at 10:44 AM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    No, you're smart. You don't have expired stickers, or speed or break traffic laws. Every stop on the road has a potential to lose your life - after all it's a stranger with a deadly weapon.
    If officers are going to interact with the public with the assumption that "this guy may be the one guy out of thousands that kills me" then it would only seem appropriate for the public to interact with officers with the assumption of "this may be the cop that overreacts and shoots me."

    It only takes that one guy, and if I don't know Officer Friendly then he's a danger with a deadly weapon, right?

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    If officers are going to interact with the public with the assumption that "this guy may be the one guy out of thousands that kills me" then it would only seem appropriate for the public to interact with officers with the assumption of "this may be the cop that overreacts and shoots me."

    It only takes that one guy, and if I don't know Officer Friendly then he's a danger with a deadly weapon, right?
    This goes to the "us against them attitude".

    If an officer is that insecure then they need to find another line of work.

    "APPROPRIATE"....my ^$%

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    Could be a cane-gun? That's what the cop is saying? (snicker)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    If officers are going to interact with the public with the assumption that "this guy may be the one guy out of thousands that kills me" then it would only seem appropriate for the public to interact with officers with the assumption of "this may be the cop that overreacts and shoots me."

    It only takes that one guy, and if I don't know Officer Friendly then he's a danger with a deadly weapon, right?
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    This goes to the "us against them attitude".

    If an officer is that insecure then they need to find another line of work.

    "APPROPRIATE"....my ^$%
    Sure. How about you head on down to your local LEA and ask the chief to get all those insecure cops, cuz we can tell who they are just by looking at them, to quit. Then life for thee and we gets better.....mmm'k.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    If officers are going to interact with the public with the assumption that "this guy may be the one guy out of thousands that kills me" then it would only seem appropriate for the public to interact with officers with the assumption of "this may be the cop that overreacts and shoots me."

    It only takes that one guy, and if I don't know Officer Friendly then he's a danger with a deadly weapon, right?
    This is an excellent point and perfect context.

    The FACT is police shoot/kill about 750 people every year in America.

    Only about 35 cops are murdered every year in America.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    This is an excellent point and perfect context.

    The FACT is police shoot/kill about 750 people every year in America.

    Only about 35 cops are murdered every year in America.
    In addition in the first instance, it's illegal to fight back or resist. You have to just stand there and be killed, then hope your survivors can win a settlement in court (in most states).

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    In addition in the first instance, it's illegal to fight back or resist. You have to just stand there and be killed, then hope your survivors can win a settlement in court (in most states).
    Negative... you have a right to resist if your life is in danger... been covered here many times.

    Key words are only if life is in danger. So no if someone says "put your hands behind your back" you cannot resist and say no. That's resisting arrest (no force). You can actively resist arrest and fight back but that'll add more charges.

    If someone is beating you in the head with a baton then you can resist.

    I believe the case was where the cop was shot because he was using excessive force? I know someone will correct me if that's wrong.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Right.

    Sure. How about you head on down to your local LEA and ask the chief to get all those insecure cops, cuz we can tell who they are just by looking at them, to quit. Then life for thee and we gets better.....mmm'k.
    You can tell them by their aggressiveness.

    Shoot an old man with a cane...get fired.

    Shoot a kid with a wii controler in his home...get fired.

    Shoot someone while handcuffed and on the ground...get fired.

    Beat a guy to death while he is handcuffed...get fired.

    Pretty simple, might not help that person but it would help the community as a whole.

    I forgot, shoot an unarmed scared lady driving away in the back....get fired. (this one actually happened and the town is safer for it)

    How many think the wii and cane killers will get fired?????

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Negative... you have a right to resist if your life is in danger... been covered here many times.

    Key words are only if life is in danger. So no if someone says "put your hands behind your back" you cannot resist and say no. That's resisting arrest (no force). You can actively resist arrest and fight back but that'll add more charges.

    If someone is beating you in the head with a baton then you can resist.

    I believe the case was where the cop was shot because he was using excessive force? I know someone will correct me if that's wrong.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Not in Missouri. If that someone is a cop arresting you that is.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Not in Missouri. If that someone is a cop arresting you that is.
    I apologize I should have said loom to state law. I was in reference to all the supreme court decisions guys have thrown around on here about it. That's all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    That's interesting, "should have" for a traffic stop arrest without warrant.

    The reason cops want to come to your window is to take the extra-legal sniff and peek search.
    That is only part of the reason the other part is that drivers often do stupid things when they get out step out into traffic, stand in the traffic lane, stand in between the vehicles.

    Being out side your vehicle along a busy highway is a more dangerous place then inside.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Cops are not planning to release the dash cam video.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hing-cane.html

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    SLED: Officer-involved shootings increase in SC. Canipe shooting from SFGate.com

    "COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — A 70-year-old man who was shot and wounded by a deputy as he reached for his cane during a traffic stop was the ninth person shot by a law officer in South Carolina so far this year, state officials say, bringing the pace of police-involved shootings to more than one a week. That would mark the highest rate of such shootings in South Carolina since state officials started keeping statistics 1n 1999. [ ... ] That prevents researchers like University of South Carolina criminology professor Geoffrey Alpert from being able to figure out if police officers are shooting more because they face more danger, or they are more likely to fire their weapons before the threat to them is fully known. They don't know if the shootings are by rookies or officers with decades of experience.

    "There aren't good statistics available. We can't tell what is unfolding," said Alpert, who testifies about proper police tactics across the country."

    http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/art...SC-5273852.php

    http://artsandsciences.sc.edu/crju/f...rt/alpert.html

    http://artsandsciences.sc.edu/crju/pdfs/taser_final.pdf

    • Alpert, G., R. Dunham, and M. Stroshine. Policing: Continuity and Change. Prospect Heights, IL.: Waveland Press (2006).
    • Understanding Police Use of Force: Officers, Suspects, and Reciprocity (with R. Dunham). New York: Cambridge University Press (2004).
    • Management of Emergency Vehicle Operational Risks (with W. Smith). Evanston, IL: Northwestern University Center for Public Safety (2003).
    • Understanding Social Science Research: Applications in Criminology and Criminal Justice (with J. MacDonald). Prospect Heights, IL.: Waveland Press (2001).
    • Police Pursuits: What We Know (with D. Kenney, R. Dunham and W. Smith). Washington, DC: Police Executive Research Forum (2000).
    Last edited by Nightmare; 02-28-2014 at 08:34 AM.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The LE knee-jerk response.....it, the shoot, is justified until it is found to not have been justified.

    Release the dash cam video!!!

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The LE knee-jerk response.....it, the shoot, is justified until it is found to not have been justified.

    Release the dash cam video!!!
    LE has a vested interest in perpetuating the mindset that every shoot is a good shoot until there can be no further value to maintaining such a position. Time, more of it, is the number one goal of LE in a cop involved shooting. Once the incident gets past a week then the "outrage" is long gone, except for a small, vocal, and easily discounted/ignored few.

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    The Sheriff (not deputy) cited reasonable fear of bodily harm, approving the shooting as though self-defense is being folded into the issue. This after mooting innocent of instigation, sufficient force and withdrawal, surely as job requirements.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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