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Thread: Finally a good video re: police encounter with OCer's

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    Regular Member teddyearp's Avatar
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    Finally a good video re: police encounter with OCer's

    I don't know where this was taken so it may be moved to the proper regional section, but with all the police bashing threads, I figured this would be a good balance:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1G1IscWi58

    Don't know how old it is or whether it has been posted here yet, but thought it was a good share.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddyearp View Post
    I don't know where this was taken so it may be moved to the proper regional section, but with all the police bashing threads, I figured this would be a good balance:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1G1IscWi58

    Don't know how old it is or whether it has been posted here yet, but thought it was a good share.
    Since OC is not illegal, then there should BE no police encounters. This makes your argument void. Any encounter of an OCer who is not about to commit or who is not in the process of committing a crime should not be happening. If I were the LEO's superiors I would be putting them on a desk job if they did this. Why? Because they are NOT out there investigating actual crime avoiding doing what they are paid to do. While they are doing this actual crime is probably happening down the street.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 03-01-2014 at 08:35 PM.

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    Regular Member teddyearp's Avatar
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    I wasn't making an argument. I totally agree with you that OC is (or should be) legal everywhere. My point in posting this video was to show that for once it seemed as though it was handled very positively by a peace officer, not a LEO. I personally liked the reason(s) why he chose to be a deputy sheriff. That was one of the coolest parts of the video.

    And sure, the police should not have to investigate LAC's. But it does happen. It's a fact. There will always be the sheeple who are skeered by the legal display of firearms by LAC's and who will waste the time of their local police/sheriff's office. However in this instance, it was not a LEO who responded, but a true peace officer.

    That's all.
    Last edited by teddyearp; 03-01-2014 at 08:54 PM.

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    I've spent more time with police than most people. I am one of their enemies.

    They always have a designated officer who is supposed to play the nice guy/support your cause role and talk to you.

    They want information. They want insight. They want all the things you shouldn't be giving them because in the end.....all they want is you locked in a cage.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Since OC is not illegal, then there should BE no police encounters. This makes your argument void. Any encounter of an OCer who is not about to commit or who is not in the process of committing a crime should not be happening. If I were the LEO's superiors I would be putting them on a desk job if they did this. Why? Because they are NOT out there investigating actual crime avoiding doing what they are paid to do. While they are doing this actual crime is probably happening down the street.
    And that would just ferment more division. Police can and should be able to walk to anyone and say "hi how's your day going". In response citizens should able to and can say "am I being detained? No? Lata".

    When you getting coffee or at a restraint have you ever talked to worker? How about a movie theater or ANY public place? Ever charged about the weather with a worker at a store your in as your in line getting checked out? Did you then demand they are punished because they weren't stocking a shelf or cleaning a table?

    No.

    Police are at work and should have great community relations with their area. If that was my beat, you bet I'd at least pull up or walk up and ask how they are how their day is and ask what they are doing. Not to interrogate, but to ask as if I was a citizen walking by. Then either they would refuse to talk to me and I'd wish them a good day and leave or wed stay and chat it up like normal people.

    Does everyone see this "us vs. Them" thing? It sucks and it shouldnt be pushed by either side.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Since OC is not illegal, then there should BE no police encounters. This makes your argument void. Any encounter of an OCer who is not about to commit or who is not in the process of committing a crime should not be happening. If I were the LEO's superiors I would be putting them on a desk job if they did this. Why? Because they are NOT out there investigating actual crime avoiding doing what they are paid to do. While they are doing this actual crime is probably happening down the street.
    NO encounters? So in your world, all LEOs should not interact at all with OCers at all???

    About the nicest thing I can say is: "What a ludicrous notion!"

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    Regular Member Tackleberry1's Avatar
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    Unfortunately the LAC never know the officers intentions, which makes it advisable to simply refuse any conversation.

    Would it be great if it was like Sheriff Andy in Mayberry, yep, that would be fantastic, but the reality is that the LEO can lie through his teeth with zero consequences while the LAC can be charged for the slightest untruth.

    Tack

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    Regular Member Tackleberry1's Avatar
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    Unfortunately the LAC never know the officers intentions, which makes it advisable to simply refuse any conversation.

    Would it be great if it was like Sheriff Andy in Mayberry, yep, that would be fantastic, but the reality is that the LEO can lie through his teeth with zero consequences while the LAC can be charged for the slightest untruth.

    Tack

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
    Unfortunately the LAC never know the officers intentions, which makes it advisable to simply refuse any conversation.

    Would it be great if it was like Sheriff Andy in Mayberry, yep, that would be fantastic, but the reality is that the LEO can lie through his teeth with zero consequences while the LAC can be charged for the slightest untruth.

    Tack
    Its pretty to easy to tell what kind of officer he is. I would hope (and think I know) most of us gun guys are smart enough to realize when I guy walks up and says "hey guys how are you today?". That we can answer good sir how about yourself? Without ANY chance of getting locked up.

    Now.. after that if it goes "why are you here? Or what kind of gun? Or what kind of permit? Or...." then be wary and shut up and say sorry sir rather not discuss it am I being detained? No? Ok hasta LA waygo!

    Its prejudice and bias. Cops actually can and do get in trouble for that. Think stop and frisk.... so when I citizen sees a cop and immediately assumes he's evil and trying to convict him of rape... it causes problems. Just like when cops assume an ocer is crazy or evil because he openly has a gun on him.

    There's a saying about two way streets....

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    Last edited by Primus; 03-01-2014 at 11:21 PM.
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    Regular Member Tackleberry1's Avatar
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    I respect that... I'm not one of those guys who thinks all Cops are evil. I serve RSO duty bi monthly with several LEO's at our private gun club. They're good men who I've gotten to know quite well over the years...
    However, that does not change reality, or my perspective.

    Tack

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Its pretty to easy to tell what kind of officer he is. I would hope (and think I know) most of us gun guys are smart enough to realize when I guy walks up and says "hey guys how are you today?". That we can answer good sir how about yourself? Without ANY chance of getting locked up.

    Now.. after that if it goes "why are you here? Or what kind of gun? Or what kind of permit? Or...." then be wary and shut up and say sorry sir rather not discuss it am I being detained? No? Ok hasta LA waygo!

    Its prejudice and bias. Cops actually can and do get in trouble for that. Think stop and frisk.... so when I citizen sees a cop and immediately assumes he's evil and trying to convict him of rape... it causes problems. Just like when cops assume an ocer is crazy or evil because he openly has a gun on him.

    There's a saying about two way streets....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    And that would just ferment more division. Police can and should be able to walk to anyone and say "hi how's your day going". In response citizens should able to and can say "am I being detained? No? Lata".

    When you getting coffee or at a restraint have you ever talked to worker? How about a movie theater or ANY public place? Ever charged about the weather with a worker at a store your in as your in line getting checked out? Did you then demand they are punished because they weren't stocking a shelf or cleaning a table?

    No.

    Police are at work and should have great community relations with their area. If that was my beat, you bet I'd at least pull up or walk up and ask how they are how their day is and ask what they are doing. Not to interrogate, but to ask as if I was a citizen walking by. Then either they would refuse to talk to me and I'd wish them a good day and leave or wed stay and chat it up like normal people.

    Does everyone see this "us vs. Them" thing? It sucks and it shouldnt be pushed by either side.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    I often talk to and converse with various people while going about my day, convenience store clerk, waitress, so forth and so on. I do without any hesitation or fear.

    The reason I choose do that is because none of them can take my life and/or liberty simply due to an egotistical whim. Something a police officer can and has done.

    What's worse, is the "Thin Blue Line" will then defend and protect this same police officer, e.g. the Daniel/Canton cop.

    You want an end to the "us vs. them"? Simple, get rid of the "Thin Blue Line", then we'll talk. Until then, I don't talk to cops.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    I often talk to and converse with various people while going about my day, convenience store clerk, waitress, so forth and so on. I do without any hesitation or fear.

    The reason I choose do that is because none of them can take my life and/or liberty simply due to an egotistical whim. Something a police officer can and has done.

    What's worse, is the "Thin Blue Line" will then defend and protect this same police officer, e.g. the Daniel/Canton cop.

    You want an end to the "us vs. them"? Simple, get rid of the "Thin Blue Line", then we'll talk. Until then, I don't talk to cops.
    Honestly, only if you knew how thin that line really was. I've personally seen and heard some crazy stories about what officers do to each other and scramble to cya.

    Everything from guys refusing to back each other up (female officer ended up in a fist fight got decked pretty bad because of this) to ratting each other out for dumb things (like officers taking photos of other officers ducking or sleeping somewhere on a slow night then showing said photos to supervisors). This doesn't include IA stuff where you get grilled.

    This doesn't apply to every department and I certainly don't speak for even my department or any other officer, just relating some experiences. It maybe be different in smaller towns where there's only 3 or 4 officers as opposed to 3 or 4 hundred or 3 or 4 thousand (if LAPD or NYPD is that big?)

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    In uniform or on the town's dime, they're just like any other public servant and need to tend to their business. If they've time to chat then they need more work, maybe washing cars or sweeping streets, or fewer buddies. When we had one cop, he was stressed by his 24/7 responsibility balanced by comp-time, then we hired another.

    I've two cops in my town that are as far removed from Andy and Barney as possible as they clank around in their loaded utility-belts and assault SUV's.

    The OIC is USMC and AmLegion comrade and almost OK.

    The kid, for whose hiring I am culpable (Mea culpa, mea maximum culpa!) is not. I will leave a room that he enters. His first year on the job, he herded his pack into a church supper while dressed in grungy BDU and OC uniform - once - I imagine the pastor or one of the 'church ladies' ("I don't want you [me] with a gun around me!") got to him.

    When I can get one of our semi-practicing attorneys aside for a quiet conversation, I'll discuss putting Sgt. Schultz on trespass notice and its potential ramifications.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    In uniform or on the town's dime, they're just like any other public servant and need to tend to their business. If they've time to chat then they need more work, maybe washing cars or sweeping streets, or fewer buddies. When we had one cop, he was stressed by his 24/7 responsibility balanced by comp-time, then we hired another.
    THIS!!

    If they're chatting up OC'ers they're missing the crime happening down the street. DON'T TALK TO COPS. If OC-ers were able to refuse ALL LEO interactions, what LEO would continue to try and talk to them?

    There's always the threat of arrest for trumped up reasons. That's why people film interactions.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 03-02-2014 at 10:37 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Cops are suppose to be the front line ambassadors for whatever political/municipal organization/corporation they are employed by.

    After checking out the complaint the cop had a duty to contact the belligerent complainant and inform them that they need to know that such a complaint could be construed as a false report, especially when interfering with someones Constitutional rights.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Cops are suppose to be the front line ambassadors for whatever political/municipal organization/corporation they are employed by.

    After checking out the complaint the cop had a duty to contact the belligerent complainant and inform them that they need to know that such a complaint could be construed as a false report, especially when interfering with someones Constitutional rights.
    Except that SOME cops like to have a 'reason' to go 'talk to' a citizen (whom they know is doing nothing illegal), hoping to goad them. Some would see it as a way to get an easy arrest. Beats fighting actual crime.

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    Its great that the officer seems to respect the rights of the individuals in the video. However, I believe that as a general rule of thumb it is best policy to not converse with the police even when they are being friendly. That doesn't mean be rude or disrespectful, there are plenty of ways to decline having a conversation politely. In the store analogy, for instance, many stores will ask for an email address almost as if it's required to complete check out. It is obviously perfectly acceptable to politely decline to provide the store employee with an email address
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 03-02-2014 at 05:30 PM. Reason: replaced conversate with converse
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Except that SOME cops like to have a 'reason' to go 'talk to' a citizen (whom they know is doing nothing illegal), hoping to goad them. Some would see it as a way to get an easy arrest. Beats fighting actual crime.
    I don't disagree. People need to understand the cops are tax collectors for the state, collecting the tax civilly or criminally.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Its great that the officer seems to respect the rights of the individuals in the video. However, I believe that as a general rule of thumb it is best policy to not conversate with the police even when they are being friendly. That doesn't mean be rude or disrespectful, there are plenty of ways to decline having a conversation politely. In the store analogy, for instance, many stores will ask for an email address almost as if it's required to complete check out. It is obviously perfectly acceptable to politely decline to provide the store employee with an email address
    When the store asks for personal info on a cash purchase I respond that I need their name, address and social security number. Like a deer in the headlights they ask why and I tell them so I can issue an IRS form 1099mis for their income taxes.

    For some strange reason they don't want my info. It's funny how that works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    When the store asks for personal info on a cash purchase I respond that I need their name, address and social security number. Like a deer in the headlights they ask why and I tell them so I can issue an IRS form 1099mis for their income taxes.

    For some strange reason they don't want my info. It's funny how that works.


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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    I often talk to and converse with various people while going about my day, convenience store clerk, waitress, so forth and so on. I do without any hesitation or fear.

    The reason I choose do that is because none of them can take my life and/or liberty simply due to an egotistical whim. Something a police officer can and has done.

    What's worse, is the "Thin Blue Line" will then defend and protect this same police officer, e.g. the Daniel/Canton cop.

    You want an end to the "us vs. them"? Simple, get rid of the "Thin Blue Line", then we'll talk. Until then, I don't talk to cops.
    THIS is why I don't like talking with/to police officers.
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    Regular Member teddyearp's Avatar
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    While I agree with all of you about not wanting to talk to the cops, I still think that for once this was a positive encounter. He wasn't drilling them for their personal info, etc.

    However, I do believe that he should have looked up the RP to scold them about reporting something that isn't a crime.

  23. #23
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    If this was in Texas, which I'm thinking it might have been (they seem to only be OCing rifles but for some reason I was thinking this was somewhere else), maybe not, but there have been quite a lot of these type positive encounters, they just don't go viral like the bad ones do. Good news is harder to spread than bad news.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 03-03-2014 at 09:19 AM.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Its pretty to easy to tell what kind of officer he is. I would hope (and think I know) most of us gun guys are smart enough to realize when I guy walks up and says "hey guys how are you today?". That we can answer good sir how about yourself? Without ANY chance of getting locked up.

    Now.. after that if it goes "why are you here? Or what kind of gun? Or what kind of permit? Or...." then be wary and shut up and say sorry sir rather not discuss it am I being detained? No? Ok hasta LA waygo!

    Its prejudice and bias. Cops actually can and do get in trouble for that. Think stop and frisk.... so when I citizen sees a cop and immediately assumes he's evil and trying to convict him of rape... it causes problems. Just like when cops assume an ocer is crazy or evil because he openly has a gun on him.

    There's a saying about two way streets....

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    Officer Super Duper Friendly should not have engaged the citizens. He has the right to speak with anyone. Our response to Officer Super Duper Friendly is coerced into a position of being extra polite. I do not make nice talk with cops who walk up to me to chat. I will make nice talk with cops who are there to aid em, my fly is down, or my shoe is untied, but not just to make nice talk. What is the motivation, the reason, for the contact. I always ask "What can I do for you Officer Super Duper Friendly." Th evry next words out of his mouth will almost always be a "nice way" of investigating me mere for me OCing. Bad cop, right then and there in my view, just not a violently bad cop. I chalk him up as a thug and move on. Unfortunate really, he had a choice to follow the law, or follow department /personal policy. Cops routinely follow policy vs. the law.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Officer Super Duper Friendly should not have engaged the citizens. He has the right to speak with anyone. Our response to Officer Super Duper Friendly is coerced into a position of being extra polite. I do not make nice talk with cops who walk up to me to chat. I will make nice talk with cops who are there to aid em, my fly is down, or my shoe is untied, but not just to make nice talk. What is the motivation, the reason, for the contact. I always ask "What can I do for you Officer Super Duper Friendly." Th evry next words out of his mouth will almost always be a "nice way" of investigating me mere for me OCing. Bad cop, right then and there in my view, just not a violently bad cop. I chalk him up as a thug and move on. Unfortunate really, he had a choice to follow the law, or follow department /personal policy. Cops routinely follow policy vs. the law.
    Can you explain how he isn't following the law by walking up to you and "chatting" with you as you describe? Its not illegal to cut with you about ocing orb the color of your underwear. You may not like it. You may believe he is "investigating" you, but none of it is illegal or immoral.

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