Finally a good video re: police encounter with OCer's

While I agree with all of you about not wanting to talk to the cops, I still think that for once this was a positive encounter. He wasn't drilling them for their personal info, etc.

However, I do believe that he should have looked up the RP to scold them about reporting something that isn't a crime.

If this was in Texas, which I'm thinking it might have been (they seem to only be OCing rifles but for some reason I was thinking this was somewhere else), maybe not, but there have been quite a lot of these type positive encounters, they just don't go viral like the bad ones do. Good news is harder to spread than bad news.

Primus said:

Its pretty to easy to tell what kind of officer he is. I would hope (and think I know) most of us gun guys are smart enough to realize when I guy walks up and says "hey guys how are you today?". That we can answer good sir how about yourself? Without ANY chance of getting locked up.

Now.. after that if it goes "why are you here? Or what kind of gun? Or what kind of permit? Or...." then be wary and shut up and say sorry sir rather not discuss it am I being detained? No? Ok hasta LA waygo!

Its prejudice and bias. Cops actually can and do get in trouble for that. Think stop and frisk.... so when I citizen sees a cop and immediately assumes he's evil and trying to convict him of rape... it causes problems. Just like when cops assume an ocer is crazy or evil because he openly has a gun on him.

There's a saying about two way streets....

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Officer Super Duper Friendly should not have engaged the citizens. He has the right to speak with anyone. Our response to Officer Super Duper Friendly is coerced into a position of being extra polite. I do not make nice talk with cops who walk up to me to chat. I will make nice talk with cops who are there to aid em, my fly is down, or my shoe is untied, but not just to make nice talk. What is the motivation, the reason, for the contact. I always ask "What can I do for you Officer Super Duper Friendly." Th evry next words out of his mouth will almost always be a "nice way" of investigating me mere for me OCing. Bad cop, right then and there in my view, just not a violently bad cop. I chalk him up as a thug and move on. Unfortunate really, he had a choice to follow the law, or follow department /personal policy. Cops routinely follow policy vs. the law.

OC for ME said:

Officer Super Duper Friendly should not have engaged the citizens. He has the right to speak with anyone. Our response to Officer Super Duper Friendly is coerced into a position of being extra polite. I do not make nice talk with cops who walk up to me to chat. I will make nice talk with cops who are there to aid em, my fly is down, or my shoe is untied, but not just to make nice talk. What is the motivation, the reason, for the contact. I always ask "What can I do for you Officer Super Duper Friendly." Th evry next words out of his mouth will almost always be a "nice way" of investigating me mere for me OCing. Bad cop, right then and there in my view, just not a violently bad cop. I chalk him up as a thug and move on. Unfortunate really, he had a choice to follow the law, or follow department /personal policy. Cops routinely follow policy vs. the law.

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Can you explain how he isn't following the law by walking up to you and "chatting" with you as you describe? Its not illegal to cut with you about ocing orb the color of your underwear. You may not like it. You may believe he is "investigating" you, but none of it is illegal or immoral.

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OC for ME said:

Officer Super Duper Friendly should not have engaged the citizens. He has the right to speak with anyone. Our response to Officer Super Duper Friendly is coerced into a position of being extra polite. I do not make nice talk with cops who walk up to me to chat. I will make nice talk with cops who are there to aid em, my fly is down, or my shoe is untied, but not just to make nice talk. What is the motivation, the reason, for the contact. I always ask "What can I do for you Officer Super Duper Friendly." Th evry next words out of his mouth will almost always be a "nice way" of investigating me mere for me OCing. Bad cop, right then and there in my view, just not a violently bad cop. I chalk him up as a thug and move on. Unfortunate really, he had a choice to follow the law, or follow department /personal policy. Cops routinely follow policy vs. the law.

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Primus said:

Can you explain how he isn't following the law by walking up to you and "chatting" with you as you describe? Its not illegal to cut with you about ocing orb the color of your underwear. You may not like it. You may believe he is "investigating" you, but none of it is illegal or immoral.

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If he is investigating a alleged crime, MWAG call perhaps, then he needs to articulate his authority to arrest me, here in MO. If I am not detained then i am not reuqired to give him the time of day. I am convinced that me ignoring his very proximity to me will result in he arresting me. There is no detainment in MO. The law is clear in MO, he must "provide" the authority that he has to arrest me.

So, in MO, it is against the law for a cop to investigate me (detained to complete his "minimal" intrusion into my bubble/liberty) if I have not committed a crime. That is a "false arrest" in MO and clearly a unlawful act by the cop. MA may be different. We have played these word games before, you and I, my premise is based on liberty and being left alone. Yours is based on proactive policing that is extra legal in many instances, and routinely anti-liberty.....and unlawful where there is law to support my position.

OC for ME said:

If he is investigating a alleged crime, MWAG call perhaps, then he needs to articulate his authority to arrest me, here in MO. If I am not detained then i am not reuqired to give him the time of day. I am convinced that me ignoring his very proximity to me will result in he arresting me. There is no detainment in MO. The law is clear in MO, he must "provide" the authority that he has to arrest me.

So, in MO, it is against the law for a cop to investigate me (detained to complete his "minimal" intrusion into my bubble/liberty) if I have not committed a crime. That is a "false arrest" in MO and clearly a unlawful act by the cop. MA may be different. We have played these word games before, you and I, my premise is based on liberty and being left alone. Yours is based on proactive policing that is extra legal in many instances, and routinely anti-liberty.....and unlawful where there is law to support my position.

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I'm confused.... we were talking about an officer walking up and asking how your day was..specifically we were discussing the video that was posted. No one was detained or arrested in any form. No one was even identified or asked to provide ID.

In that context, you said its either he follows the law or policy. As if he approaches a mwag and just talks to him he is breaking law but following policy. He's not breaking any laws until he detains you or demands ID or something to that affect.

Not sure how we went from talking to detaining.

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Why did that cop choose that group of citizens? Now, the cop may have approached a group of unarmed citizens, in the FFR seen behind him, and he may already have. It seems nobody asked the cop why he chose to make contact. Could that, would that, be been seen as throwing a wet blanket over Officer Super Duper Friendly's kumbaya moment? I don't know.

My view is consistent. If there is not valid lawful authority to make contact then don't. As you have stated previously that you would do, and what I would prefer Officer Super Duper Friendly would do, is to honk and wave as he drove by.

If I want to talk to you about me then I will initiate the contact with you.

I don't want you to initiate a contact with me to talk about me.

If you have the lawful authority to talk about me, then I must cooperate, not ignore you completely, and as such, in MO, I am under arrest.

It really is nothing personal, ever. I know cops and they know me. I tell them right up front, be up front with me, if you stop me, in the course of your duties I will respond in kind.

I don't like to bug cops when they are out and about, provide me the same respect and courtesy. Remember, I have the same right to interrupt your normal comings and goings as you have to interrupt mine. At least that is what cops are always telling us.

Simplicity itself. Leave me alone unless you have the lawful authority to interrupt my comings, my goings, and my standing stillings.

Primus said:

Honestly, only if you knew how thin that line really was. I've personally seen and heard some crazy stories about what officers do to each other and scramble to cya.

Everything from guys refusing to back each other up (female officer ended up in a fist fight got decked pretty bad because of this) to ratting each other out for dumb things (like officers taking photos of other officers ducking or sleeping somewhere on a slow night then showing said photos to supervisors). This doesn't include IA stuff where you get grilled.

This doesn't apply to every department and I certainly don't speak for even my department or any other officer, just relating some experiences. It maybe be different in smaller towns where there's only 3 or 4 officers as opposed to 3 or 4 hundred or 3 or 4 thousand (if LAPD or NYPD is that big?)

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Blah, blah, blah.... Motherhood and apple pie as we used to say at work. Meaningless words that, you guessed it, mean nothing.


LEOs don't come with tags or signs that say "I'm going to be an ******* today - be warned!" nor can you tell the good ones from the bad ones by location, area code, zip code, city, state or region. Nor can you tell by the time of day or by daylight or nighttime.

The simple fact of the matter is that any LEO could walk up to me right now and put a bullet in my brain and all he has to say are the two magic words "officer safety" and chances are he'll get away with it. And there is no doubt that the TBL will support and defend him, never mind the badge polishers and OC Fudds here and on other gun boards that will fall all over themselves defending him.

Now, imagine how easy it is for him to just decide to cuff and stuff me and then put me in jail for a day or more just based on his little egotistical whim and the so-called consequences to him personally go practically to zero. Again, I cite the Daniel/Canton incident as proof of the lack of consequences and the irrational behavior of the TBL. That could happen anywhere at any time with any LEO.

Name any other profession in this country with that kind of power over people.

Our fellow citizens need to see, with their own eyes, cops not making contact with OCers. Our fellow citizens need to see, with their own eyes, that cops don't care about OCers. This may, just may, leave the viewing citizen with the impression the OCers not something to be worried about.

Officer Super Duper friendly was seen by other citizens and the impression that is made is that the cops are keeping a eye on the gun toting people. :banghead:

OC for ME said:

Our fellow citizens need to see, with their own eyes, cops not making contact with OCers. Our fellow citizens need to see, with their own eyes, that cops don't care about OCers. This may, just may, leave the viewing citizen with the impression the OCers not something to be worried about.

Officer Super Duper friendly was seen by other citizens and the impression that is made is that the cops are keeping a eye on the gun toting people. :banghead:

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Ok, I see your point now. And it is a valid one.

However, I guess in the future, I will only post the video's where the cop automatically cuffs and stuffs and asks questions later.

teddyearp said:

Ok, I see your point now. And it is a valid one.

However, I guess in the future, I will only post the video's where the cop automatically cuffs and stuffs and asks questions later.

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? Wtf? I hope that was a joke...

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Primus said:

? Wtf? I hope that was a joke...

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If you think so called positive encounters should be posted why don't you lead the charge? There are numerous videos out there and if there aren't any to post you could always make your own

Just for the record I'm not necessarily against posting 'positive encounters' . my feelings are mixed as I do believe 'no encounter' is what's right

OC for ME said:

Why did that cop choose that group of citizens? ..........................

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I see a supportive LEO, responding to what may have been an MWAG. LEO drives up, sees the obviosly well armed gentlemen and has an attitude of acceptance right away. " I see you're out scaring People again." sounded like an icebreaker to me. He did not ask about the weapons or require ID. The problem I see here is an inadequately trained 911 operator that dispatched the bloody LEO in the first place. 911 wasted his time and tax money for no purpose. I see as much in watching this encounter as any negative encounter.

stealthyeliminator said:

If you think so called positive encounters should be posted why don't you lead the charge? There are numerous videos out there and if there aren't any to post you could always make your own

Just for the record I'm not necessarily against posting 'positive encounters' . my feelings are mixed as I do believe 'no encounter' is what's right

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No, you guys are right. I have learned a lot from this site about 'encounters' with the law. How many mistakes I have made in the past. I am not a huge fan of LEO's, especially the perceived 'newer' breed, the ones who are act like they're all about command and control, not protect and serve, and the reasons why most here do not like them. I had an incident at my house with a 'supposed' 911 hang up call around 9PM at night. I don't even have a land line. I told the LEO that and she was satisfied, or so I thought. A half hour later she's still in my driveway, knocking on the door again asking for names and DOB of everyone who lives in the house, "just for the record". WTF? There was another incident while in Alaska where a Officer Friendly came up to the group of us just off the fishing boat. She was phishing all right.

This video just seemed fairly innocent and showed a peace officer who for once (even though he got sent there by dispatch) was just there to BS with some folks for who's cause he supports.

teddyearp said:

No, you guys are right. I have learned a lot from this site about 'encounters' with the law. How many mistakes I have made in the past. I am not a huge fan of LEO's, especially the perceived 'newer' breed, the ones who are act like they're all about command and control, not protect and serve, and the reasons why most here do not like them. I had an incident at my house with a 'supposed' 911 hang up call around 9PM at night. I don't even have a land line. I told the LEO that and she was satisfied, or so I thought. A half hour later she's still in my driveway, knocking on the door again asking for names and DOB of everyone who lives in the house, "just for the record". WTF? There was another incident while in Alaska where a Officer Friendly came up to the group of us just off the fishing boat. She was phishing all right.

This video just seemed fairly innocent and showed a peace officer who for once (even though he got sent there by dispatch) was just there to BS with some folks for who's cause he supports.

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You miss the greatest point. Those open carry people were attempting to normalize to those driving by the presence of a defensive tool in our world. The very presence of that cop sends the message that open carry is wrong, as evidenced by that cop's presence. So the cop hauls nobody away, however, don't miss the damage inflicted. The cop didn't waddle out there to make friends and show how wonderful he is. He sent a message to all observers. Do this and face the embarrassment and humiliation of being seen approached by authorities.

There was nothing going on on that corner that couldn't be discerned from a distance by someone with the observation skills of a legally blind person. And the "good cop / bad cop" routine is older than law enFORCEment. Other flim flam practitioners originated the act and you'll note the level of respect they garnered for their efforts. I saw all the warmth and connection and honesty with the subjects of officer wonderful in the video as you would with any run of the mill used car salesman needing to sell a car to pay his rent.

MSG Laigaie said:

I see a supportive LEO, responding to what may have been an MWAG. LEO drives up, sees the obviosly well armed gentlemen and has an attitude of acceptance right away. " I see you're out scaring People again." sounded like an icebreaker to me. He did not ask about the weapons or require ID. The problem I see here is an inadequately trained 911 operator that dispatched the bloody LEO in the first place. 911 wasted his time and tax money for no purpose. I see as much in watching this encounter as any negative encounter.

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The cop should have driven by, honked his horn, waved, and kept on kepting on.

When cops are seen doing what 99% of the public at large are doing, what we want cops to do, driving by and not noticing, then we are where we need to be in my view.

Not getting the name and address of the caller is the issue. LE can be very effective in educating the public regarding the law and OC. It is in LEs best interest to educate nitwits at every opportunity so that their already strained resources can be used effectively and efficiently. Chasing "ghosts" is not a effective use of Officer Super Duper Friendly's time.

And then there is that. Agreed. I stand fully corrected and informed now.

The cop should have approached the rp instead.

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OC for ME said:

The cop should have driven by, honked his horn, waved, and kept on kepting on.

When cops are seen doing what 99% of the public at large are doing, what we want cops to do, driving by and not noticing, then we are where we need to be in my view.

Not getting the name and address of the caller is the issue. LE can be very effective in educating the public regarding the law and OC. It is in LEs best interest to educate nitwits at every opportunity so that their already strained resources can be used effectively and efficiently. Chasing "ghosts" is not a effective use of Officer Super Duper Friendly's time.

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The "call" is the "in" the cops were looking for. "We need to respond to an alleged call". To imply that nobody in law enFORCEment was aware that there were several armed people standing on a corner with signs attracting attention is an insult. I believe the "situation" was assessed and the "good cop" routine employed to "get in" to feel around for hostility or other indications of civil disobedience.

And as far as facts, this was indeed an investigational expedition. Those investigating the peons are trained to lie. Knowing this, my detector is pegging on any statement that this government agent supports the 2A for it's intended purpose,which wasn't to target shoot or hunt Bambi.

I live in Virginia and I open carry, handgun only. While hunting I carry a rifle, but not for everyday carry. I am a 21 year Navy Veteran and have many friends who either left service and joined a police force or did so after high school. Here in VA the mass majority of LEOs understand and know open carry laws and never bother any of us that carry. There is the occasional LEO who stops and strikes up a conversation and I don't mind. I am a law abiding citizen and don't feel threatened by an officer speaking with me. I think if more of the public witnesses these type of encounters, the more informed the general public will become on gun laws. I have never been asked for identification, and only asked once why I choose to carry openly. I understand my right to remain silent, and that I am not required to present ID unless I am detained for suspicion of committing a crime. Most LEOs that approach are generally responding to a phone complaint, and once there and determine that there is no threat, explain to the person reporting the situation and educate them on the law. This is part of the job of an Officer of the peace and I see nothing wrong with this as long as the open carry citizen is not harassed.

bbtenvol, welcome to the site . . . .