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Thread: Boise Professor wants guidelines for shooting students.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Boise Professor wants guidelines for shooting students.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/28/op...dent.html?_r=0

    "BOISE, Idaho — TO the chief counsel of the Idaho State Legislature:
    In light of the bill permitting guns on our state’s college and university campuses, which is likely to be approved by the state House of Representatives in the coming days, I have a matter of practical concern that I hope you can help with: When may I shoot a student?
    I am a biology professor, not a lawyer, and I had never considered bringing a gun to work until now. But since many of my students are likely to be armed, I thought it would be a good idea to even the playing field."
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    I would think it is very simple; the same as a student shooting a professor.... when threatened with death or serious bodily injury.

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    When CAN he? Anytime he wants really.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    This is the brain power you send your kids off to school to be taught by.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member conandan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    This is the brain power you send your kids off to school to be taught by.
    +1

    Another example of an educated man with no sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/28/op...dent.html?_r=0

    "BOISE, Idaho — TO the chief counsel of the Idaho State Legislature:
    In light of the bill permitting guns on our state’s college and university campuses, which is likely to be approved by the state House of Representatives in the coming days, I have a matter of practical concern that I hope you can help with: When may I shoot a student? I am a biology professor, not a lawyer, and I had never considered bringing a gun to work until now. But since many of my students are likely to be armed, I thought it would be a good idea to even the playing field."
    Greg Hampikian

    Professor, Department of Biological Sciences
    Joint appointment in Department of Criminal Justice
    Director of the Idaho Innocence Project


    http://biology.boisestate.edu/facult...reg-hampikian/
    Last edited by Nightmare; 03-02-2014 at 12:44 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Greg Hampikian

    Professor, Department of Biological Sciences
    Joint appointment in Department of Criminal Justice
    Director of the Idaho Innocence Project


    http://biology.boisestate.edu/facult...reg-hampikian/
    Degrees all from U of CT ... what a loser

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Degrees all from U of CT ... what a loser
    And none in justice or the law. Boy-sie State must be desperate. Was Hampikian involved with the 'Boys of Boise'?
    Last edited by Nightmare; 03-02-2014 at 01:00 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    "Even" the playing field? I suspect the Herr Professor is likely to be outgunned. Liberals have a very poor idea as to what gun is the right gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/28/op...dent.html?_r=0

    "BOISE, Idaho — TO the chief counsel of the Idaho State Legislature:
    In light of the bill permitting guns on our state’s college and university campuses, which is likely to be approved by the state House of Representatives in the coming days, I have a matter of practical concern that I hope you can help with: When may I shoot a student?
    I am a biology professor, not a lawyer, and I had never considered bringing a gun to work until now. But since many of my students are likely to be armed, I thought it would be a good idea to even the playing field."
    Many? CooooL!!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbass
    ...But since many of my students are likely to be armed,...
    Actually, if this is true, it is now less important that he also be armed.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    "When may I shoot a student"?

    TITLE 18
    CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
    CHAPTER 40
    HOMICIDE
    18-4009. JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE BY ANY PERSON. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in either of the following cases:
    1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
    2. When committed in defense of habitation, property or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or,
    3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress or servant of such person, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished; but such person, or the person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant or engaged in mortal combat, must really and in good faith have endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was committed; or,
    4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.
    Are college professors really too dumb to pick up a code book on occassion?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    "When may I shoot a student"?



    Are college professors really too dumb to pick up a code book on occassion?
    Well, biology ones are ...

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conandan View Post
    +1 Another example of an educated man with no sense.
    This is Truth!

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Actually, if this is true, it is now less important that he also be armed.

    It is typical, in my observations, that people such as this "professor" are extremists. He is aparently an anti-firearm person. Those around him are going to Legally exercise their Second Amendment Rights and this upsets him. He is angry with them and resorts to the extreme. To counter their Freedom to Arm, he suggests that they will come to his classes, armed to the teeth, and out to get him. For that reason he will announce that he is arming himself to shoot back? In what other business model does an employee get to make this kind of threat?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Tenured? Looking for his 15 seconds of fame?

    A pencil neck prof.....nothing more to it than that. Ignore him and he will "go away."

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof Dumbass
    ... I had never considered bringing a gun to work until now. But since many of my students are likely to be armed, I thought it would be a good idea to even the playing field."
    Because previously the bad guys were thwarted by that damn sign.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-04-2014 at 10:38 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Because previously the bad guys were thwarted by that damn sign.
    The magic stickers ALWAYS work as long as:
    No scratches to the stickers corrupt the protecting spells
    The stickers do not lose their adhesive powers and fall off
    The person reading said stickers is a LAW-ABIDING citizen.

    I remember two different instances on the Univeristy of Arizona campus that made the Daily Wildcat pages:

    Once when a man in the main library pulled out a knife and threatened a student
    Another time when a man was stabbed in the parking lot of the Kaibab-Huachuca dorm conglomerate.

    I'll put up the links to the Daily Wildcat issues covering these two occurrences.

    And here I thought those magical "No Weapons" signs were keeping me safe from criminals. /sarcasm off


    *Added 25th of May, 2014*
    Knife-wielding man in main library
    http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/artic...a-main-library
    ID of man (note he had no affiliation with the UA, but was on campus)"
    http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/artic...ed-uapd-102512

    Stabbing in the dorm parking lot:
    http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/artic...-student-union
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 05-25-2014 at 08:09 PM. Reason: Added links, almost 3 months late
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    The magic stickers ALWAYS work as long as:
    No scratches to the stickers corrupt the protecting spells
    The stickers do not lose their adhesive powers and fall off
    The person reading said stickers is a LAW-ABIDING citizen.

    I remember two different instances on the Univeristy of Arizona campus that made the Daily Wildcat pages:

    Once when a man in the main library pulled out a knife and threatened a student
    Another time when a man was stabbed in the parking lot of the Kaibab-Huachuca dorm conglomerate.

    I'll put up the links to the Daily Wildcat issues covering these two occurrences.

    And here I thought those magical "No Weapons" signs were keeping me safe from criminals. /sarcasm off
    "Gun-buster" signs are just symbols.

    As George Carlin once remarked, "...and I leave symbols to the symbol-minded."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    I wonder if establishments would be so willing to post up these detrimental (to LACs) signs if they were held legally and financially responsible for any injuries and damages to disarmed LACs caused by a violent criminal act?
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    I wonder if establishments would be so willing to post up these detrimental (to LACs) signs if they were held legally and financially responsible for any injuries and damages to disarmed LACs caused by a violent criminal act?
    Probably not. But, that cure is worse than the disease. The last thing we need is government criminalizing the exercise of property rights.

    It sounds great to make property owners financially responsible--just desserts and all that. But, in the end, "solving" the problem by using government to coerce people is not the answer. Government already does way, way too much of that.

    Persuasion is what is needed. For example, (off-the-cuff): "Mr. Manager, I'll make you an offer. I am trained and back-round checked. Here are my certificates. If you let me shop here armed, then, while I am here, I will provide you with momentary armed security, free. Anybody who uses violence against you or your employees while I am in the shop will dealt with in the same calm, disspassionate, armed, manner as if you had a police officer right here to interrupt the attack. I can't arrest them. But, I can dissuade them, and even prevent them, from harming you and your employees to exactly the same degree as if you had a cop standing right here. What do you say?"

    Make up your own persuasion/offer.
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-04-2014 at 11:36 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Probably not. But, that cure is worse than the disease. The last thing we need is government criminalizing the exercise of property rights.

    It sounds great to make property owners financially responsible--just desserts and all that. But, in the end, "solving" the problem by using government to coerce people is not the answer. Government already does way, way too much of that.

    Persuasion is what is needed. For example, (off-the-cuff): "Mr. Manager, I'll make you an offer. I am trained and back-round checked. Here are my certificates. If you let me shop here armed, then, while I am here, I will provide you with momentary armed security, free. Anybody who uses violence against you or your employees while I am in the shop will dealt with in the same calm, disspassionate, armed, manner as if you had a police officer right here to interrupt the attack. I can't arrest them. But, I can dissuade them, and even prevent them, from harming you and your employees to exactly the same degree as if you had a cop standing right here. What do you say?"

    Make up your own persuasion/offer.
    Fair enough.
    Thank you for pointing out the beginnings of a deviation to the Dark Side. Too much of a (seemingly) good thing might just cause more of the exact problems arising from overreaching government.

    Although I may have to disagree on the acting as security. My goal is to make it home to my loved ones, so I would interject only under certain conditions, but usually one of my requirements is that my loved ones or I be in mortal danger.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Probably not. But, that cure is worse than the disease. The last thing we need is government criminalizing the exercise of property rights.

    It sounds great to make property owners financially responsible--just desserts and all that. But, in the end, "solving" the problem by using government to coerce people is not the answer. Government already does way, way too much of that.

    Persuasion is what is needed. For example, (off-the-cuff): "Mr. Manager, I'll make you an offer. I am trained and back-round checked. Here are my certificates. If you let me shop here armed, then, while I am here, I will provide you with momentary armed security, free. Anybody who uses violence against you or your employees while I am in the shop will dealt with in the same calm, disspassionate, armed, manner as if you had a police officer right here to interrupt the attack. I can't arrest them. But, I can dissuade them, and even prevent them, from harming you and your employees to exactly the same degree as if you had a cop standing right here. What do you say?"

    Make up your own persuasion/offer.
    Your caution is well taken, but I might opine that the assignment of liability, where such exists, is not coercive/initiatory (read: aggressive) force.

    If someone has committed a tort against another and accrued liability, it is not a usurpation on the part of government to demand recompense.

    So, in my mind, the issue cannot be distinguished from the analysis of whether such a gun ban does, in fact, constitute a tort (in the eventuality of an attack). This is true no matter how strong my preference is to less/no government.

    This remains true as long as government possesses a de facto monopoly on civil dispute, IMO.

    If such were to, in fact, constitute a tort, it would not be legitimate (read: within our rights) to deny its victims recompense simply because we're not fans of the means of achieving said recompense.

    Sort of like, I'm an anarchist, but that doesn't mean I think government shouldn't jail murderers, or that in fact no murderers should be jailed until such can be carried out by a stateless society.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-06-2014 at 02:22 PM.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Comments like the Professors just show the very common trait of suppressed aggression present in anti-gun individuals.

    He should immediately:
    1. Be taken seriously
    2. Put on a 'no-fly' list
    3. Suspended from contact with students.

    How do you -not- do this?

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I'm almost embarrassed that I graduated from Boise State……

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty
    I wonder if establishments would be so willing to post up these detrimental (to LACs) signs if they were held legally and financially responsible for any injuries and damages to disarmed LACs caused by a violent criminal act?
    We have the start of that here in WI, and there are still companies (of all sizes) who choose to put their customers at risk by requiring them to disarm, then not doing anything to protect them.

    Our law says that if a business allows carry, they are immune from liability if anything bad happens because of that.

    We've had at least one mass murder in a "gun-free" zone, and I wish some smart lawyer would have offered to represent the victims and the surviving families in a suit against the company. They knew the guy was violent, they knew he was after his wife, yet they put "no (legal) guns" stickers on the doors and did nothing else. So his wife and several co-workers died, and more were wounded.
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