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Armed and ready for a confrontation... with my pastor

AFCop

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
181
Location
Newport News, Va
Back Story: Started attending a new church about 6 weeks ago. Got some sideways stares but nothing significant and people have been friendly.

Yesterday my wife finds out that for the first week we were the talk of the church. Even after the pastor said "We're an open carry church."

The church had its annual partners meeting this past Wednesday (their word for members) and today after the service 2 things happened...
1. He invited us to their new members meeting on Saturday and
2. Said he would be drafting a carry policy for the church and asked if I would provide some input.

He said he gets it but doesn't want just anyone to carry. He said I was fine because I was a MP and my wife was ok, well because she's with me but he doesn't want some random joe carrying not knowing what, if any training they've had. Like requiring a CHP, etc.

I'm sure he's getting some push from the members and wants to strike a balance and I think its great he's giving me the opportunity to provide input but I want to have ideas, facts and statistics to aid me in my presentation.

My position is the 2nd is just as important as the first and the no requirement to have any prerequisites to practice religion... But I'd like to show stats (or a lack there of) of OCers in general. I would like a no policy approach but at the very least be able to limit the policy to mirror state law.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
You could mention the following:
Only with OC can anyone know for certain who is armed
OC is, generally, a deterrent to those that wish to cause harm

One can simply have a sign of instruction that goes something like this:
guns-are-welcome-signs-10-x-7-metal-or-plastic-600x464.jpg

Violent criminals don't tend to use holsters to conceal since that associates them with cops
If they don't want "just anyone" carrying, it may be due to some bad apples in the congregation, in which case those bad apples should be talked to, since they need instruction the most
If someone is unstable while carrying a gun, they are unstable without it
 
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peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
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Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Ask him if Lay Preachers offering prayers should be outlawed because they may not be trained properly.
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
you might want to remind him that Jesus ordered us to be armed too.

i am always under the impression too, that anyone carrying where it can be seen is the only honest way to carry

BTW, i probably wouldn't want you to carry because you are an MP :rolleyes:
 

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,467
Location
Dallas
I have carried concealed in Church since it was legal in my state.

Ditto.

No OC in TX, but at least your Pastor invited your input even though you've only been there 6 weeks.
Of course if you CC'd who'd know you needed any type of a policy.
Perhaps a don't ask - don't tell policy - for CC.

If you're going OC, how about require all the deacons to OC, and sunday school teachers.
And perhaps CC for your Pastors and choir members w robes.
Active or retired Armed Forces & police(wo)men. Also fathers and mothers that have kids attending church.
No parents in process of divorce, and no one that voted for Obama.

If you guys have bluegrass bands sometimes, how about everyone carries pistols and long guns - kids can bring cap guns.
 

AFCop

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
181
Location
Newport News, Va
I think the open carry policy for the church should mirror state law.

What did he mean by, "We're an open carry church" ?

On our first or second visit my wife mentioned how glad she was the firearms hadn't been an issue (as the church we ultimately choose as home has to accept us as we are) and he said it like they were very pro 2A. I don't believe the issue is his but other members...
 

AFCop

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
181
Location
Newport News, Va
Might also ask him what kind of training a CHiPper gets.

Maybe I'll pay the 20 bucks for him to take the online class and let him see for himself exactly how low the bar for a CHP is, with respect to training.. I guess its a false security thinking they've had a background check recently... lol
 

AFCop

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
181
Location
Newport News, Va
you might want to remind him that Jesus ordered us to be armed too.

i am always under the impression too, that anyone carrying where it can be seen is the only honest way to carry

BTW, i probably wouldn't want you to carry because you are an MP :rolleyes:

I was leaning towards the... where would we be if David had been told to leave his rocks and slings at home if he didn't have a certificate of training...


Oh and I'm actually an USAF Security Forces Flight Chief so I'm not an actual MP (Army or Marine).. I actually get paid to think... :)
 
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2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,846
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Looks like you've encountered a situation where not all conservatives fell the same way about all conservative issues.

This situation seems to be an interesting twist on stances taken on certain issues in that one side feels that the gov't is infringing on their (perceived) right to follow some religious dogma or other vs a religious organization (your church) feels obligated to proscribe your allowed civil behavior (carry) under certain conditions imposed by it. I assume that their positions other controversial issues align with yours, else why join the congregation? Of course, the church is a private organization and owns/controls private property, so the congregation can impose any rule they wish.

The following statute burdens you only as far as the gov't is concerned. It does not burden the church to accept your argument.
18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.
If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

You could (probably should) solicit input from members who might feel as you do. Perhaps a "town hall" meeting might be in order. I'm guessing that many in your new congregation accept the notion that the 2A means what it says, but shy away from actually exercising their rights because they'd feel awkward.
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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35,317
Location
Valhalla
Because bad people do bad things, even in houses of worship.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...ch-shootings-11-years-comprehensive-list.html


Just last month, the federal government stepped in with a first-ever report outlining security recommendations for houses of worship. The 38-page plan, released just days after a man was shot and wounded during a Catholic Mass in Salt Lake City, advises congregations to plan for potential emergencies, including what police call random "active shooter" situations. Among the advice offered by the federal government: run, hide or, as a last resort, fight.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...t-security-as-violent-incidents-grow/2495241/
 

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,467
Location
Dallas
This was the one I remember here in the Dallas/Ft Worth area.
In 1999, in the evening there was a youth event at the Ft Worth Wedgwood Baptist Church where a number of kids were killed.
http://www.wedgwoodbc.org/Wedgwood-Shooting

Not a church, but in 1991, there was the massacre down the road in Temple/Killeen at the Luby's cafeteria - 50 people shot, 23 killed.
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/7048182.html
Want to say this was one of the precipitating factors for CHL in Texas - Gov Ann Richards (D) vowed to veto if it was ever passed by the Legislature and GWBush-43 vowed to pass it if elected Governor.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Maybe I'll pay the 20 bucks for him to take the online class and let him see for himself exactly how low the bar for a CHP is, with respect to training.. I guess its a false security thinking they've had a background check recently... lol

If he ever took a hunter safety class...he's already done all he needs to do.
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
Without lending an opinion, I suggest to you "Guns in the Workplace: A Manual for Private Sector Employers and Employees" as a quick read that presents policies that you could adapt as necessary. I have a copy somewhere, but it is also available here at amazon.
 

Neplusultra

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,224
Location
Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
You might find out who the naysayers are or those who are uncomfortable and take them to the range.... I've found people are a lot less stressed by things they have some experience with. Mention it to the Pastor or at the meeting.
 

AFCop

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
181
Location
Newport News, Va
Once again a bar is set and OCDO delivers... great advise and examples. Much appreciated, please don't stop... I will start to compile my presentation. Of course, a report on the back end will be provided.
 
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