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Thread: Awesome CCW experience with Capital Reef park officer....

  1. #1
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    Awesome CCW experience with Capital Reef park officer....

    So it was July 10th, last summer. Had been driving from Wichita Ks for about 12-14 hours. A bit tired, ready to arrive and start our hike. I was NOT intentionally speeding, but coming down one hill I was doing about 45 in a 40 and new my truck would bog down starting up the next hill, so without watching my speedo I hit the gas alittle. Look down a few seconds later, realize I am going 50 in a 40.....Thats when the lights went on behind me.

    I had a 26 year old guy in my back seat, along with a 13 year old girl, and the 13 year olds 35 year old father next to me. My sig was on my hip under a shirt, and I got out both licences, and had them both hanging outside my window with both hands as the officer came up. Before he saw me, he saw both hands and both licences.

    He walked up telling me I was speeding, and when he saw both licences he said 'great, looks like you have both licences out....'

    Walked up to my window, looked in, and thanks me for it. He asked where my firearm was, I told him. I then said 'I know I was speeding, really didn't realize it', laughed, and said 'we come in peace'....

    He looked in, said 'who else is carrying?'

    They all no.

    He said 'Why not? This is America, you should all be carrying.'

    He then looked at me, smiled, said the speed limit was 40 and if I kept it at that we wouldn't ever have to see 'his ugly face again'.

    I about crapped a brick. I figured I was screwed, being from Kansas, that they'd give me a massive ticklet as I wouldn't be able to come back and fight it. We were all so blown away.....Guy was super friendly. I believe mainly because I showed him the respect of presenting both licences AS HE WALKED UP, I immediatly admitted and apologized for speeding, and cracked a joke.

    Probably my best cop experience in my life. Ok maybe second best. But it was awesome.
    Last edited by ruskiegunlover; 03-02-2014 at 07:45 PM.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Goofy, imo. Nobody puts both hands out the window except felons. You're fortunate.

    Thanks for the story, though.

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    I have seen too many stories where things went wrong. Only way to gauruntee the cop has no excuse is doing it that way. I see nothing wrong with it. Not goofy, respectful. Cop can see walking up TWO licences, so he knows I have a gun. He then sees TWO hands, so he knows I am not as likely a threat. I don't hate cops. I seek to make any stop as uneventful and respectful as possible. If that cop had STILL been an ass to me, HE'D BE AT FAULT, not me.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
    I have seen too many stories where things went wrong. Only way to gauruntee the cop has no excuse is doing it that way. I see nothing wrong with it. Not goofy, respectful. Cop can see walking up TWO licences, so he knows I have a gun. He then sees TWO hands, so he knows I am not as likely a threat. I don't hate cops. I seek to make any stop as uneventful and respectful as possible. If that cop had STILL been an ass to me, HE'D BE AT FAULT, not me.
    Well said. In sure he appreciated your actions. Obviously since he didnt even write you a warning. Good stop for all.

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
    I have seen too many stories where things went wrong. Only way to gauruntee the cop has no excuse is doing it that way. I see nothing wrong with it. Not goofy, respectful. Cop can see walking up TWO licences, so he knows I have a gun. He then sees TWO hands, so he knows I am not as likely a threat. I don't hate cops. I seek to make any stop as uneventful and respectful as possible. If that cop had STILL been an ass to me, HE'D BE AT FAULT, not me.
    Nonsense. The cop sees three other people in the car and now your antics may be a distraction. The 13 year old gets shot because you think you are unique. Or maybe her dad.

    Further. IF your antics were actually required to safely go about your business, shouldn't we be dropping all that "land of the free" stuff? To expect a self respecting person to go to over the top extremes to indicate submission to someone far removed from being their superior [the cop is the free man's servant] is just that.....over the top.

    Unless you were carrying all your permits and licenses between your teeth[and that wouldn't surprise me, reading your post], the cop might call in an airstrike based on your "furtive movements" while digging out your permission slips. Remember, some cops are looking for an excuse. You may be unique. I hope not terminally so.

    You ever been around a large dog that jumps on people? Annoying and can be dangerous to those not able to fend off the large dog. Picture this:

    Here at the OCDO clubhouse, there are a few dogs that jump on people. They have to be broke of the habit or they'll be put down. Now we've come up with a plan of addressing this problem in hopes that:

    1. We'll be safe from the dogs that jump on us.

    2. We won't have to destroy the dog.

    We've made great progress on this. The dogs are aware they shouldn't be jumping on us, and that there are consequences if they do.

    The last thing we need is for someone to come on board and undo all that work and effort by encouraging the mutts to jump on us. You've come on board to be part of the problem...or solution....? While you think it's cute to undo our work, will you be as cavalier when we have to put a round in the mutt's head for being a threat and a danger? And get this straight: what the dogs have been doing is not OK, not cute, and must stop before someone ELSE gets hurt or killed.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 03-02-2014 at 09:50 PM.
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    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

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    "Expediency" comes to mind.

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    Hey uh, in case you haven't noticed...You're being somewhat of an *******. How about you relax. I see your point, actually agree with it fundamentally. But I also see the point of view of police officers who see people a lot less respectful than me everyday. If I were them, I would appriciate someone acting with RESPECT for them a lot more over someone, aparently like you, who wants to be OFFENSIVE and demanding from a cop who likely pulled you over for DOING something. I WAS SPEEDING. Did you get that part of it? I knew it. I accepted responsibility for it immediatly. I wasn't going to fight it. I was a stranger in Utah, cop has no idea who I am. So I chose the route of respect. Go ahead, continue to talk that way. I guess we'll agree to disagree. But one point of FACT: Had I been on a dashcam, and acted like I did, the cop would have had one hell of a time argueing in court I was out of line if something HAD happened. You? You'd be another of these guys on all of these police videos spouting off about Amendments, your rights, and how you don't have to do ANYTHING....All for a simple speeding ticket, or something else simple and stupid. You will be the one on tv, being talked about. All your talk kind of reeks of an immaturity to be honest. I was RESPECTFUL, and you decide to cut me down and say I am part of a 'problem'....For who? NeoNazis? Police haters?

    You get into a similiar issue, handle it your way, I have no problem with that. Heck, I know you will. It won't affect me, so you have at it bro.
    Last edited by ruskiegunlover; 03-03-2014 at 08:07 AM.

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    Another example of how I am part of a 'problem':

    I haven't had a ticket since 2001. January, 2001 to be precise. In October, 2003 I had a seizure with my diabetes at night, in bed. Kansas suspended my licence for 6 months until April. They never informed me, never notified me. I got nothing in the mail, and was in fact allowed to renew my licence normally in December of that year 2 months later.

    February 13th, 2004: Out on a date with my NOW wife, our 4th date. In my red 67 mustang fastback which while nice was not fully restored....Just looked great. Forgot the speed limit on the street was 35, thought it was 40. Went around a guy doing 35 at about 45. Got pulled over immediatly by the cop I didn't see.

    I was oblivious. Sat and waited for about 15 minutes while 1 cop turned into about 4. I was asked to get out of my car after about 20 minutes, informed my licence was suspended. I showed no disrespect, did not get angry at them. I was honest, said I did not know. I then asked them if it had anything to do with the seizure I had had about 4 months before. I advised I THOUGHT it might get suspended, but that the state never sent anything and allowed me to renew in December. They looked at eachother, said they didn't know anything about it. They started processing me, were very respectful to me, and I notice several really admiring my car and the girl in it. After a few minutes, they had a quick conference at the front of my car. Came up and told me since I was BEING RESPECTFUL, and they felt being honest, they were letting me go with the understanding the girl would drive and I would figure it out monday morning before I drove again. They also said it would be a shame to impound my car.

    I was, to put it mildly, THANKFUL. No ticket, no report. Got the date finished nicely, figured out monday they HAD suspended it but never sent the letter. Didn't drive for 2 months after that. It sucked. But BEING RESPECTFUL got me the same in return. Had I been like you, argued, got pissed off, yelled, said 'no its not!', wanted to be a jerk.....My car would have been impounded, the date would have been OVER, and my insurance would have gone sky hi.

    Guess in my 31 years I have learned respect and RESPONSIBILITY gets you a lot more than anything else.

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    Ahh spring, when bromance blooms anew.
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    He aint MY brofriend....

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
    He aint MY brofriend....
    He's MY brofriend... we are tight brothers. :-)

    I'm one of those cute puppies he was talking about shooting in the head in his first post. It makes him upset when people say things that contradict his "cops are dogs that jump up and needs to be broken or shot in the head" mantra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
    Hey uh, in case you haven't noticed...You're being somewhat of an *******. How about you relax. I see your point, actually agree with it fundamentally. But I also see the point of view of police officers who see people a lot less respectful than me everyday. If I were them, I would appriciate someone acting with RESPECT for them a lot more over someone, aparently like you, who wants to be OFFENSIVE and demanding from a cop who likely pulled you over for DOING something. I WAS SPEEDING. Did you get that part of it? I knew it. I accepted responsibility for it immediatly. I wasn't going to fight it. I was a stranger in Utah, cop has no idea who I am. So I chose the route of respect. Go ahead, continue to talk that way. I guess we'll agree to disagree. But one point of FACT: Had I been on a dashcam, and acted like I did, the cop would have had one hell of a time argueing in court I was out of line if something HAD happened. You? You'd be another of these guys on all of these police videos spouting off about Amendments, your rights, and how you don't have to do ANYTHING....All for a simple speeding ticket, or something else simple and stupid. You will be the one on tv, being talked about. All your talk kind of reeks of an immaturity to be honest. I was RESPECTFUL, and you decide to cut me down and say I am part of a 'problem'....For who? NeoNazis? Police haters?

    You get into a similiar issue, handle it your way, I have no problem with that. Heck, I know you will. It won't affect me, so you have at it bro.
    Quote Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
    Another example of how I am part of a 'problem':

    I haven't had a ticket since 2001. January, 2001 to be precise. In October, 2003 I had a seizure with my diabetes at night, in bed. Kansas suspended my licence for 6 months until April. They never informed me, never notified me. I got nothing in the mail, and was in fact allowed to renew my licence normally in December of that year 2 months later.

    February 13th, 2004: Out on a date with my NOW wife, our 4th date. In my red 67 mustang fastback which while nice was not fully restored....Just looked great. Forgot the speed limit on the street was 35, thought it was 40. Went around a guy doing 35 at about 45. Got pulled over immediatly by the cop I didn't see.

    I was oblivious. Sat and waited for about 15 minutes while 1 cop turned into about 4. I was asked to get out of my car after about 20 minutes, informed my licence was suspended. I showed no disrespect, did not get angry at them. I was honest, said I did not know. I then asked them if it had anything to do with the seizure I had had about 4 months before. I advised I THOUGHT it might get suspended, but that the state never sent anything and allowed me to renew in December. They looked at eachother, said they didn't know anything about it. They started processing me, were very respectful to me, and I notice several really admiring my car and the girl in it. After a few minutes, they had a quick conference at the front of my car. Came up and told me since I was BEING RESPECTFUL, and they felt being honest, they were letting me go with the understanding the girl would drive and I would figure it out monday morning before I drove again. They also said it would be a shame to impound my car.

    I was, to put it mildly, THANKFUL. No ticket, no report. Got the date finished nicely, figured out monday they HAD suspended it but never sent the letter. Didn't drive for 2 months after that. It sucked. But BEING RESPECTFUL got me the same in return. Had I been like you, argued, got pissed off, yelled, said 'no its not!', wanted to be a jerk.....My car would have been impounded, the date would have been OVER, and my insurance would have gone sky hi.

    Guess in my 31 years I have learned respect and RESPONSIBILITY gets you a lot more than anything else.
    Whole lotta assumin going on here. Assuming I would not be respectful, while at the same time not providing one iota more to a cop than what the law requires. I think you believe what you want to believe, that complying with the law, strictly speaking, equates to being a a-hole to a cop. Holding a cop accountable for his every action equates to being a a-hole to that cop. That you providing more than the law requires equates to you being respectful to a cop. respect begets respect. I choose to see if the cop will be respectful (making nice talk perhaps) of the 1) law, 2) liberty, then 3) me....in that order. Jumping to #3 first (making nice talk) does not necessarily equal that the cop respects the law or liberty, there has been evidence of this provided to the membership here from time to time.

    Your mind is made up. No sense in discussing this topic with you any further.

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    I am a teacher in a public high school. I tell kids all the time youmust GIVE RESPECT to GET IT. That does not equate to bending over for everyone.....But at the start of every encounter with police, I'll choose respect before anything else. When you are pulled over for speeding, and get on TV demanding rights, and resisting the officers.....we'll just get to see you on tv I guess. You wonder why cops approach people the way they do? Does society have ANY say in how cops approach them? To me, yes. To YOU, its all on the cops. You want to talk about cops the way you do, dump on them, talk about how being appriciative or showing respect from the get go is WRONG.....then you wonder why some get a bit jaded? If they dealt with people like YOU day in and day out, I bet they would.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    I've walked away from at least as many traffic tickets as I have gotten in my life, for simply being respectful. The most recent one was in 1998 in NV, where I swear the State Police must hide their vehicles in spider holes in the desert, because this Trooper appeared out of thin air! I was relocating from Utah to Oregon, and had my 12yr old daughter with me, and two handguns in the glove compartment. I had been doing 80 in a 65mph zone on I-80. When he approached, I greeted him with "'afternoon officer." and immediately informed him that I was just passing through, that I had a Utah CCW and two handguns in the glove compartment. I then presented my DL, CCW, registration and insurance card. He thanked me for informing him about the guns, told me to keep my speed within 5mph of the posted limit, and to have a safe trip. Respect will NEVER get you into a pickle, but it will it not always keep you from getting a ticket which you have earned... but it never hurts. Pax...
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    I agree with the comments by ruskiegunlover and Gil223. Being respectful doesn't mean giving up your rights. I'm 73 years old. In my whole life I've received one (1) ticket for speeding (crossing fingers, knocking on wood), but I have been pulled over a few times for speeding. In no case do I feel I've given up any rights, and I haven't given any information except that required by law. And on that note, in Utah there's no law requiring a person to inform an officer about carrying.

    OK, I've been lucky. And I do try to stay within spitting distance of the speed limit. But I don't neglect courtesy. Over the years I've had quite a number of law enforcement friends, and in talking with them, I've heard some say they don't like to give tickets to courteous people. Well, if they would rather correct bad behavior than punish it, why not be respectful and just get a warning?

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    I agree with the OP and what others have said. You can certainly be respectful and considerate of LEOs without surrendering your rights.

    I had a similar experience in Alabama last year. I was intentionally speeding lol but he clocked me at probably 70-80mph in a 55 coming over a hill. I was trying to pass three very slow moving cars in one of those passing lanes on a two lane road. Anyway, as he walked up, i said something like "hey officer, i just want to let you know i have an AR CCW permit and my glock on my right hand side safely holstered". He looked at me for a second then drawled "well son, ill make ya a deal, you dont draw yours and i wont draw mine" i cracked up and said "that's a mighty fair deal officer!" ended up with a warning when i clearly deserved a ticket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    In the past 5 years I've been stopped for 52 in a 40, 52 in a 35, and 42 in a 25. All three times I was polite and respectful to the police officer, they were polite and respectful to me, and I received verbal warnings only. I never mentioned my CPL or my gun and neither did they.

    Funny how that works. But somehow, if you do mention a lawfully carried firearm it becomes internet post worthy if the officer doesn't freak out on you.
    +1

    Do not make a gun apart of a traffic stop unless the local (state) law mandates it. The stop is not about the gun, but about the driver.
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    Absolutely amazing, the blasé tolerance of speeding and traffic stops.

    It has changed, but for the first few years of SC's CWP, renewal could be denied for excessive traffic violations, IIRC five per renewal period.
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    I will always tell them. That way, I can never be accused of anything later on. But to clarify, Utah doesn't require you to tell them?


    I plan on open carrying in the Death Hollow canyon hike this summer. Won't open carry anywhere else, but will out in the boonies on my hike.

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    Yes. You can be accused of things you did not do.

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Accused of what? Lawfully possessing a firearm? Just because you tell them about your gun does not mean they won't accuse you of whatever anyway.
    The assumption is that all police are honest and do not make stuff up. I think the vast majority are honest the vast majority of the time.

    However, we have seen plenty of cases where the police make stuff up, especially if they make a mistake and believe that they need to CYA.

    Best to have a recorder going. Getting to be pretty cheap, now.

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