Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 96

Thread: So much for the secured container law

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    So much for the secured container law

    I haven't said much about this because I didn't want to cause a stir. One of the bad things about asking for a law that's already been defined by the courts, is it may get changed.....Looks like it's in the works...I've said many times...be careful what you ask for:


    (HB962)GOVERNOR'S RECOMMENDATION


    • 1. Line 3, enrolled, Title, after handgun;


    • strike


    • secured


    • insert


    • locked



    • 2. Line 108, enrolled, after handgun is


    • strike


    • secured


    • insert


    • locked



    • 3. Line 109, enrolled, after vessel


    • strike


    • the remainder of line 109, all of line 110, and through locked on line 111


    Legislative Information System

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I haven't said much about this because I didn't want to cause a stir. One of the bad things about asking for a law that's already been defined by the courts, is it may get changed.....Looks like it's in the works...I've said many times...be careful what you ask for:
    This clearly defies every previously communicated intent for the law. Hopefully worst case, the House will not agree and the bill will die.

    This is the revelation of the prophecy about McAuliffe and his ILK from Day 1.

    There needs to be a MASSIVE effort for this by VCDL, NRA, EVERYONE.

    TFred

    ETA: It passed with 70 out of 100 in the House, and 27 out of 40 in the Senate. Both are above a 2/3 margin, isn't that enough to override a Veto?
    Last edited by TFred; 03-04-2014 at 01:08 PM.

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    This clearly defies every previously communicated intent for the law. Hopefully worst case, the House will not agree and the bill will die.

    This is the revelation of the prophecy about McAuliffe and his ILK from Day 1.

    There needs to be a MASSIVE effort for this by VCDL, NRA, EVERYONE.

    TFred
    I kinda hope they stay out of it. Things are bad enough already. The best thing now is for it to die.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I kinda hope they stay out of it. Things are bad enough already. The best thing now is for it to die.
    Well, there is something to be said for that, since we do have clear precedence to support what "secured" actually means, but at the same time, until it's plainly added to the Code of Virginia, there will always be some punk cop who enjoys sending people on "the ride" - just because he or she can get away with it.

    TFred

    ETA: Is there a point, and if so, where is it in the process that it becomes "too late" for the bill's patron to withdraw it?
    Last edited by TFred; 03-04-2014 at 01:31 PM.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Well, there is something to be said for that, since we do have clear precedence to support what "secured" actually means, but at the same time, until it's plainly added to the Code of Virginia, there will always be some punk cop who enjoys sending people on "the ride" - just because he or she can get away with it.

    TFred

    ETA: Is there a point, and if so, where is it in the process that it becomes "too late" for the bill's patron to withdraw it?
    It could be withdrawn at this point and I'll be hammering the nails on that coffin. If the Gun Lobby meddles with it it'll be secured carry with a CHP and they'll brag about it to boot..."Looky what we did for you"

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    99
    All the more reason to just OC.

  7. #7
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,278
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It could be withdrawn at this point and I'll be hammering the nails on that coffin. If the Gun Lobby meddles with it it'll be secured carry with a CHP and they'll brag about it to boot..."Looky what we did for you"
    Yea they did that here, it became legal to lock your gun in your car if you have a CHP. Duhhhhhhhhhh, it always has been legal. I just wonder now if some LEO will interpret the law to mean you cannot lock your gun in your car if you do not have a CHP.

    And GRNC is real proud of the above like they did us a great favor.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619


    There is no point to this bill, except to penalize otherwise law abiding persons.

    .................................................. .................................................. ........
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post


    There is no point to this bill, except to penalize otherwise law abiding persons.

    .................................................. .................................................. ........
    There is a point, it is clear. Pay for Privilege! As they did here it will eventually be amended to allow privilege card holders to secure their firearm. Not sure how that will affect stubborn OCers until it hits the courts.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There is a point, it is clear. Pay for Privilege! As they did here it will eventually be amended to allow privilege card holders to secure their firearm. Not sure how that will affect stubborn OCers until it hits the courts.
    Could have, should have said, no desired point.

    While I don't like guns being stored in vehicles, it is better than they're running around unattended.

    IMO - trying to fix a problem that did not exist. All legal gun owners were....legal.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Could have, should have said, no desired point.

    While I don't like guns being stored in vehicles, it is better than they're running around unattended.

    IMO - trying to fix a problem that did not exist. All legal gun owners were....legal.
    I agree, but some feel they must sell the mystic of concealed carry. As more people find the truth, there needs to be more hurdles to unlicensed carry. The laws of New Mexico and Oklahoma are the goal for our state and possibly yours, by the supporters of forced training.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,182
    A related VA-Alert from VCDL:

    -------------------------------------------------
    Earlier today Governor McAuliffe made his first suggested amendment to a bill awaiting his signature. What is his first suggested amendment as Governor? Gun control.

    The amendment is clearly meant to poke gun owners in the eye! Not a good way for McAuliffe to start off his tenure as Governor, but not unexpected either.

    The Governor’s suggested amendment modifies HB 962, which is Delegate Cline’s bill clarifying current law as it deals with storing a handgun in a vehicle or vessel. Right now the law allows a person who does not have a CHP to be able to store a handgun in an UNLOCKED, but closed, compartment or container in their vehicle or vessel.

    The Governor’s suggestion completely changes HB 962, requiring that the compartment or container be LOCKED! That’s not a clarification of current law - that is rewriting current law! It also puts the gun owner at increased risk by making his handgun less accessible.

    That amendment would move Virginia backwards and that is simply not acceptable.

    The Governor’s suggested amendment is just that, a suggestion. The House can simply reject the suggestion and the bill goes back to the Governor in its original form for him to either sign, not sign, or to veto.

    If the Governor either signs or doesn’t sign the bill, it will become law (it’s just a clarification to prevent false arrests, so nothing will really change as far as the rights of gun owners go). If he vetoes the bill, it will then become part of the veto override session that will happen in April. If there are enough votes in the House and Senate (2/3 required), the Governor’s veto will be overridden and the bill will become law. Otherwise the bill will die and current law will remain unchanged.

    NOTE: If the bill dies, we won’t take a step backwards because we have both an Attorney General’s opinion and, far more importantly, case law on our side. Without the clarification that HB 962 provides, we will continue to see the occasional false arrest based on police and magistrates being confused and not doing their homework.

    That the Governor would think to modify such a benign bill is mind boggling. Oh, well - it won’t stop us from making sure his desk is covered in pro-gun bills over the next 4 years nonetheless.

    You will be kept in the loop as HB 962 works its way through the remainder of the legislative session. For now we have an urgent action item to do - telling the House that we want them to REJECT the Governor’s suggested amendments:

    URGENT ACTION ITEM!

    Click here to send a prewritten message to your Delegate (the software automatically figures out who that is based on your address and Zip+4) to reject the Governor’s suggested amendments to HB 962. This just takes seconds to do:

    http://tinyurl.com/lhgp48y

    Let’s roll on this, VCDL!

  13. #13
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post


    There is no point to this bill, except to penalize otherwise law abiding persons.

    .................................................. .................................................. ........
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There is a point, it is clear. Pay for Privilege! As they did here it will eventually be amended to allow privilege card holders to secure their firearm. Not sure how that will affect stubborn OCers until it hits the courts.
    There is a very important point to this bill - as it was originally written, submitted and passed by both houses of the General Assembly. It codifies what both the Attorney General AND recent court cases have confirmed, that one may store a loaded handgun in a "secured" but not "locked" container or compartment within their personally owned vehicle or boat.

    Think about it, this law (as it exists NOW, and as it would be further clarified by the original form of this bill) increases the liberty one has to carry a loaded handgun without a CHP, even though it is obvious that placing a handgun inside an opaque container is clearly concealing it. No one can credibly argue that without the current law, one would be charged with carrying a concealed handgun if they stored their handgun in this manner without holding a CHP.

    What we have is a governor who is playing to his gun-hating base, and is therefore trying to take us a step backward at every opportunity. Despite the fact that this law passed the General Assembly with the crystal clear intent that the container need not be locked, McAuliffe is trying to bully a rewrite of the law himself, which he has absolutely no right to do as governor.

    If we can get the bill through as it was written, it would be a good thing, and IMHO it is worth the effort to do so, if there is no risk of being stuck with McAuliffe's version instead.

    The clearer it is to the LEO community that the container need not be locked, the fewer of us risk going on "the ride" that the few corrupt LEOs so enjoy sending folks on.

    TFred

  14. #14
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961
    VCDL was actually trying to do some good here. Guv'na Terry is being an absolute tool here. I hope that the house of delegates stands firm and returns the bill as originally written.

    Four years of this sort of crap from the Guv'na? This must be what nuclear winter feels like.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    VCDL was actually trying to do some good here. Guv'na Terry is being an absolute tool here. I hope that the house of delegates stands firm and returns the bill as originally written.

    Four years of this sort of crap from the Guv'na? This must be what nuclear winter feels like.
    Even if they do, he won't sign it.
    The only path for this bill is to die.

  16. #16
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Even if they do, he won't sign it.
    The only path for this bill is to die.
    If the GA sends back the original, and he does nothing, then it becomes law. If he vetoes it, then it dies, and we are left with the status quo, PLUS everyone in the middle has another data point proving what a schmuck he is.

    I don't see the House ever agreeing to adapt his recommendations.

    TFred

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    If the GA sends back the original, and he does nothing, then it becomes law. If he vetoes it, then it dies, and we are left with the status quo, PLUS everyone in the middle has another data point proving what a schmuck he is.

    I don't see the House ever agreeing to adapt his recommendations.

    TFred
    They probably won't TFred, but I've spent the last 9 days counting to 7 for SH to become law which is still very much up in the air because of this idiot not signing.....putting this bill on the alter was the worst kind of stupidity in the first place. There have two major victories in the last few years, Preemption which I guess they plan to monkey with next year and the secured container law.

    This reminds me of the James Mason Supreme Court challenge. Playing Blackjack with your neighbors mortgage money.

    Time to just let the thing die and if someone is arrested and too stupid to hire a lawyer or at least bring up the case law in their defense, they shouldn't be carrying a gun.

    Yes...my patience is very much done in.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    They probably won't TFred, but I've spent the last 9 days counting to 7 for SH to become law which is still very much up in the air because of this idiot not signing.....putting this bill on the alter was the worst kind of stupidity in the first place. There have two major victories in the last few years, Preemption which I guess they plan to monkey with next year and the secured container law.

    This reminds me of the James Mason Supreme Court challenge. Playing Blackjack with your neighbors mortgage money.

    Time to just let the thing die and if someone is arrested and too stupid to hire a lawyer or at least bring up the case law in their defense, they shouldn't be carrying a gun.

    Yes...my patience is very much done in.
    Another victim of Obama Care and excutive order - that is McAwful
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    What the heck were they thinking? Why did anyone put this bill forward to begin with? The only thing this can do, if the legislature votes one way or another on a veto is create negative legislative history, which until today, was clear. It is IMPERATIVE that this bill die an natural death. There was no problem to begin with and there is no problem now, but if this goes any farther, well, let's just say the lawyers will be making more money.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    What the heck were they thinking? Why did anyone put this bill forward to begin with? The only thing this can do, if the legislature votes one way or another on a veto is create negative legislative history, which until today, was clear. It is IMPERATIVE that this bill die an natural death. There was no problem to begin with and there is no problem now, but if this goes any farther, well, let's just say the lawyers will be making more money.
    Correct me if I'm wrong User, but Va being a weak legislative intent state, it's very difficult to show what the legislature intended. It is possible on occasion to show what they didn't mean. This bill was voted through as a locked container bill originally. The Governor sent it back with his recommendation that they use the word Secured....which they did and he signed it into law.

    That gave a very strong indication that the bill did not mean "Locked".

    The new bill, even if it goes back to the Governor in it's original form, removes much of the clout the first signing created.
    Last edited by peter nap; 03-05-2014 at 12:51 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong User, but Va being a weak legislative intent state, it's very difficult to show what the legislature intended. It is possible on occasion to show what they didn't mean. This bill was voted through as a locked container bill originally. The Governor sent it back with his recommendation that they use the word Secured....which they did and he signed it into law.

    That gave a very strong indication that the bill did not mean "Locked".

    The new bill, even if it goes back to the Governor in it's original form, removes much of the clout the first signing created.
    I don't have the link handy but if I recall correctly, the one opinion we have on this did extensively cite the legislative path that the law took as noted above. I remember asking about that at the time.

    TFred

  22. #22
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post

    This reminds me of the James Mason Supreme Court challenge. Playing Blackjack with your neighbors mortgage money.

    Yes...my patience is very much done in.
    James Mason?


  23. #23
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519

    Anyone know Gabriella Hoffman?

    This is what she says about what McAuliffe did:

    Write Your Delegates to Stop Gov. McAuliffe’s Anti-Gun Amendments to HB962
    Fellow Virginia voters: Make sure you write your delegates and urge them to reject McAuliffe’s amendments to HB962. If people in uber liberal Connecticut are fighting to keep their guns, we shouldn’t capitulate either.

    Keep calm and CARRY on!
    Anyone know Gabriella Hoffman?


  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    George Mason Damnit....too many things crammed in a small mind!

    It's the dog hunters fault!
    Last edited by peter nap; 03-05-2014 at 03:03 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    George Mason Damnit....too many things crammed in a small mind!

    It's the dog hunters fault!
    I Know, I Know ... those damn Burchers ...

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •