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Thread: RANT: Idiots in my engineering class.... don't know SH!T about guns.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    RANT: Idiots in my engineering class.... don't know SH!T about guns.

    One lady is building some sort of head protector/binder for children. It was talked about making it into a "bullet proof" shield, because of "ALL THE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS."

    I said "What school shootings? Those are VERY rare, so rare why worry about them? Arm the teachers if there is a worry..."

    Another person said, "Earthquakes are rare."

    I said, "Earthquakes happen all the time!"

    Another guy piped up and said that, "I know you don't watch TV but there is another school shooting every 2 weeks."

    -----
    Issues:

    1. Has there been a rash of school shootings that have gone unreported or something? When I tried to look into I could not find anywhere near 1 every month much less 1 ever 2 weeks. Did I miss something?

    2. How is a "bullet proof" shield going to help a 75# child? Assuming that the attacker did use an AR15 with a FV (just before impact) of 2500fts and a bullet weight of 55 grains the foot pounds of force would be 763.2ftpds. If a child got hit by that, even without penetration, would that not knock them off their feet? Would that not disable them?

    Please, share your thoughts, I am missing something or are my classmates idiots when it comes to guns?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Relax .. its just stupid comments .. engineers are supposed to make things ... cannot tell you how many products I have been a part of a team where one pushing it pushes it for goofy reasons.

    Who cares ... make it bulletproof ... what else ya gonna do in the class? You may learn something.

    I've invented hundreds of products .. some I thought were great sold zero...some I thought were good sold 1/4 billion dollars worth ...and some I thought were eh also sold for gobs of $$.

    You can never tell for sure what the market will react to ...
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 03-04-2014 at 09:44 PM.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Doesn't sound like a upper division engineering class. Wouldn't be EEs - all they know is math. PEs and CEs would know about fracking and earthquakes. MEs would know about mass x velocity and psi. Engineering science or something - would have women in it?

    Back to point 1 - the look to your left and then to your right - each of them w/b gone when you graduate. Dummies will peel off by the time you get to upper division.
    Last edited by HPmatt; 03-04-2014 at 09:49 PM.
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    SNIP...I've invented hundreds of products .. some I thought were great sold zero...some I thought were good sold 1/4 billion dollars worth ...and some I thought were eh also sold for gobs of $$.

    You can never tell for sure what the market will react to ...
    You forgot to put in smileys or the like to make it obvious that you're joking.


    To the OP:Ask them to calculate the force a bullet (even one from a handgun, such as a 9mm from any LEA-issue) hits a child with. Ask them what that kind of force would do to the child (same reason you can get a concussion even while wearing a helmet).

    Also, bring up the cost of materials and the projected final cost of the product, as well as the average salary of the parents of these children.
    Case in point: there's a reason everyone isn't wearing Kevlar body armor.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Not joking ... make it "bullet proof" and test it .. the OP may learn how to make a bullet proof helmet ... surely a worthwhile skill to learn.

    If the OP wants to be a scientist ... one cannot let political opinions or morals guide everything that they work on.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 03-04-2014 at 10:00 PM.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    Doesn't sound like a upper division engineering class. Wouldn't be EEs - all they know is math. PEs and CEs would know about fracking and earthquakes. MEs would know about mass x velocity and psi. Engineering science or something - would have women in it?

    Back to point 1 - the look to your left and then to your right - each of them w/b gone when you graduate. Dummies will peel off by the time you get to upper division.
    Engineers can do math. That's about the only generalization I will apply to them anymore.

    However, I'm not sure that math relates very well to the understanding of firearms and their use.
    If scientists, who are trained to see each and every occurrence under similar conditions as an isolated incident that supports a TREND somehow come out in support of gun confiscation (or whatever the antis are trying to disguise it as today), I don't think a higher IQ necessarily equates to more common sense, or in this case, I don't think higher level means "more logical".
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 03-04-2014 at 10:05 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Not joking ... make it "bullet proof" and test it .. the OP may learn how to make a bullet proof helmet ... surely a worthwhile skill to learn.

    If the OP wants to be a scientist ... one cannot let political opinions or morals guide everything that they work on.
    I have my AAS in Machining, I was "burning" my GI bill by taking the Engineering mechanical graphics design side also. I want to have a better understanding of what the "guys" who create the blueprints are thinking. But, if this is any sign of who will be creating blueprints, I am worried.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    One lady is building some sort of head protector/binder for children. It was talked about making it into a "bullet proof" shield, because of "ALL THE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS."

    I said "What school shootings? Those are VERY rare, so rare why worry about them? Arm the teachers if there is a worry..."

    Another person said, "Earthquakes are rare."

    I said, "Earthquakes happen all the time!"

    Another guy piped up and said that, "I know you don't watch TV but there is another school shooting every 2 weeks."
    <snip>
    Wasn't there a kid last week who pretended to shoot a kid in school? He got suspended for three days. If you count those, I guess kids are dropping like flies every week.

    The "Another guy" needs to watch less TV it seems, or at least stop watching MSNBC/CNN/ABC/CBS/NBC. Stop reading The Huffing And Puffington Post. Stop listening to NCPR (National Communist Party Radio).

    I think you should recommend some light reading for him, the US Constitution is pretty easy to read and don't take too long neither.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_..._United_States

    This says 17 "school shootings" just last month.

    This site does include any shootings on school ground or busses on school grounds. So no, they aren't all "mass" shootings.

    There's is most certainly a rise in the number of shootings at school. I don't know how much of a rise or the reason for said rise, but there is an increase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_..._United_States

    This says 17 "school shootings" just last month.

    This site does include any shootings on school ground or busses on school grounds. So no, they aren't all "mass" shootings.

    There's is most certainly a rise in the number of shootings at school. I don't know how much of a rise or the reason for said rise, but there is an increase.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Really, I would not count college shootings within the definition of "school"....most are on college campuses ... maybe lends credence to allowing college students to OC.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Really, I would not count college shootings within the definition of "school"....most are on college campuses ... maybe lends credence to allowing college students to OC.
    Its still a place of education. Whether the students are 60 or 6.. the intent is the same.

    Agreed, at the very least would be a good reason to allow students/teachers to carry. Maybe.

    My only issue is now you introduce kids with handguns into college campus. Kids tens to do very stupid things on campus. Something in the air I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Its still a place of education. Whether the students are 60 or 6.. the intent is the same.

    Agreed, at the very least would be a good reason to allow students/teachers to carry. Maybe.

    My only issue is now you introduce kids with handguns into college campus. Kids tens to do very stupid things on campus. Something in the air I think.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    But, for the vast majority, they are adults, not minors.

    No one says my kid goes to Harvard school .... they say University....

    So putting the definition of "school" to include colleges and universities wherein most people think of elementary and HS students being in "schools" just adds to the # of shootings being considered as "school shootings".

    What about people in trade schools? Are they in "school"?

    Certainly in people's minds, a 5 yr old being killed that has no chance of defending themselves is different than a 35 yr old college student.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    But, for the vast majority, they are adults, not minors.

    No one says my kid goes to Harvard school .... they say University....

    So putting the definition of "school" to include colleges and universities wherein most people think of elementary and HS students being in "schools" just adds to the # of shootings being considered as "school shootings".

    What about people in trade schools? Are they in "school"?

    Certainly in people's minds, a 5 yr old being killed that has no chance of defending themselves is different than a 35 yr old college student.
    Agreed, a 5 year old and a 35 year old are definitely different.

    But I think even the fact of shootings on universities has increased. It was never the in thing to go shoot ANY place up. Now its malls and schools/universities.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Rather than employing engineers to make 'armor' look at the big picture.

    Target denial:
    Reinforce entry denial into schools by unauthorized people;
    Create a number of 'safe rooms' or perhaps a safe closet inside of classrooms
    Allow kids to carry locator chips and/or cell phones that can dial 911 and the school office
    Have affordable resistant items, backpacks, briefcases, coats with bullet resistant features. These could be distributed in classrooms with teacher access to armor up the students in the event of an incursion and inability to get into the safe rooms.

    Use features already in existence. Guarded access into parking lots, better use of locked access and lockdown capability.

    Kids are not going to wear helmets, so don't waste time building things they won't use.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 03-05-2014 at 11:53 AM.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Perhaps you should "suggest" to them to build a "bullet proof shield" to cover the entire school. Something along the lines of a Star Trek shield. That will keep the kiddies "safe" from any attack. After all, its just a class and who says that what ever is being designed has to pass real world muster and management?
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_..._United_States

    This says 17 "school shootings" just last month.

    This site does include any shootings on school ground or busses on school grounds. So no, they aren't all "mass" shootings.

    There's is most certainly a rise in the number of shootings at school. I don't know how much of a rise or the reason for said rise, but there is an increase.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

    Since the list includes self inflicted wounds, ones that happen before/after classes, and also includes people that are not even students it is only useful in documenting crime that happens "very" close to a school. Meh.
    Last edited by carolina guy; 03-05-2014 at 12:35 PM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Rather than employing engineers to make 'armor' look at the big picture.

    Target denial:
    .
    I am an Engineer. At my last Command, I worked with about two hundred very good Engineers. Never tell an Engineer what to do, for they will do that thing. Challenge them with an objective. "Protect the People in the school from an active shooter". Let them run with that and you may get better results. Deny the Shooter.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Rather than employing engineers to make 'armor' look at the big picture.

    Target denial:
    Reinforce entry denial into schools by unauthorized people;
    Create a number of 'safe rooms' or perhaps a safe closet inside of classrooms
    Allow kids to carry locator chips and/or cell phones that can dial 911 and the school office
    Have affordable resistant items, backpacks, briefcases, coats with bullet resistant features. These could be distributed in classrooms with teacher access to armor up the students in the event of an incursion and inability to get into the safe rooms.

    Use features already in existence. Guarded access into parking lots, better use of locked access and lockdown capability.

    Kids are not going to wear helmets, so don't waste time building things they won't use.
    ...or....just arm the staff. (we do, but we homeschool).
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    But, for the vast majority, they are adults, not minors.

    No one says my kid goes to Harvard school .... they say University....

    So putting the definition of "school" to include colleges and universities wherein most people think of elementary and HS students being in "schools" just adds to the # of shootings being considered as "school shootings".

    What about people in trade schools? Are they in "school"?

    Certainly in people's minds, a 5 yr old being killed that has no chance of defending themselves is different than a 35 yr old college student.

    Don't forget all the "students of life" out there...don't they matter?
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I am an Engineer. At my last Command, I worked with about two hundred very good Engineers. Never tell an Engineer what to do, for they will do that thing. Challenge them with an objective. "Protect the People in the school from an active shooter". Let them run with that and you may get better results. Deny the Shooter.
    I've been told by groups of PhD's scientists:"we tried that before several times-its not possible" --- months later US/Foreign patents with my name on 'em ooooo-yeah.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 03-05-2014 at 04:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    Don't forget all the "students of life" out there...don't they matter?
    To the antis they do ....

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I've been told by groups of PhD's scientists:"we tried that before several times-its not possible" --- months later US/Foreign patents with my name on 'em ooooo-yeah.
    What patent numbers? I'd love to see what you've invented.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    What patent numbers? I'd love to see what you've invented.
    I don't memorize patent numbers .... but I'm sure that you have handled many things that I have invented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I don't memorize patent numbers .... but I'm sure that you have handled many things that I have invented.
    You invented BS? ;D

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    Regular Member MatieA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Rather than employing engineers to make 'armor' look at the big picture.

    Target denial:
    Reinforce entry denial into schools by unauthorized people;
    Create a number of 'safe rooms' or perhaps a safe closet inside of classrooms
    Allow kids to carry locator chips and/or cell phones that can dial 911 and the school office
    Have affordable resistant items, backpacks, briefcases, coats with bullet resistant features. These could be distributed in classrooms with teacher access to armor up the students in the event of an incursion and inability to get into the safe rooms.

    Use features already in existence. Guarded access into parking lots, better use of locked access and lockdown capability.

    Kids are not going to wear helmets, so don't waste time building things they won't use.
    So your solution is to turn the schools into prisons. Aren't most school buildings de-moralizing enough already?
    I can't stand going to my daughters school and having to get "buzzed" in. I will never allow my daughter to wear an "issued" locator device. And if I had to pass a gate-guard's scrutiny to get into the parking lot, you can bet I'd start home-schooling.
    If you do not test yourself every single day,
    then it is just another wasted day.
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