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Thread: What is the current status of the Law of Open Carry in Alabama?

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    What is the current status of the Law of Open Carry in Alabama?

    What is the current status of the Law of Open Carry in Alabama?

    ******
    http://www.thepiedmontjournal.com/vi...ance=news_lead

    SNIP

    MONTGOMERY — A state appeals court has ruled that the city of Jacksonville had the right to arrest a man who walked into a local credit union with a pistol on his hip in 2011.

    But if Jason Dean Tulley did the same thing today, his attorney claims, it would be perfectly legal.

    "The law, as it stands right now, would not lead to Mr. Tulley being arrested or convicted," said Joseph Basgier, a Birmingham lawyer.


    Read more: Anniston Star - Appeals court upholds open carry arrest .
    ******

    John and I are tracking that currently Alabama still requires a concealed carry permit to open carry loaded handguns in vehicles, but not on foot. Is this still true?

    And the recent upholding of the Tully conviction for "carrying a pistol on premises not his own" is very problematic. The Anniston Star article concludes that a 2013 Alabama statute repealed the prohibition on "carrying a pistol on premises not his own." Is this correct? Cite to statute or bill?

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    AL Weapons Law: http://www.ago.state.al.us/Page-Alabama-Weapon-Law

    AL has always been open carry. With the passage of SB286 last summer, OC was strengthened by the fact that OC did not constitute Disorderly Conduct, something that some LEO's tried since they couldn't find anything else to charge OCers with.

    CCW required for CC or to carry while in a vehicle (open or concealed). There's a bill right now trying to get rid of the vehicle carry license requirements but I'm not convinced it's going to make it since the CCW permitting process in AL is handled by the county sheriffs and all the permit $$$ go into their general fund to spend as they see fit. They're not gonna let that gravy train go without a major fight. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_31/55...arry.htmlhttp:


    Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    AL Weapons Law: http://www.ago.state.al.us/Page-Alabama-Weapon-Law

    AL has always been open carry. With the passage of SB286 last summer, OC was strengthened by the fact that OC did not constitute Disorderly Conduct, something that some LEO's tried since they couldn't find anything else to charge OCers with.

    CCW required for CC or to carry while in a vehicle (open or concealed). There's a bill right now trying to get rid of the vehicle carry license requirements but I'm not convinced it's going to make it since the CCW permitting process in AL is handled by the county sheriffs and all the permit $$$ go into their general fund to spend as they see fit. They're not gonna let that gravy train go without a major fight. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_31/55...arry.htmlhttp:

    Hope this helps.
    I looked at SB 286 at http://legiscan.com/AL/text/SB286/id/814781 - this bill does not repeal the statue prohibiting "carrying a pistol on premises not his own." So the Tulley case would seem to still be the law in Alabama - **no pistol carry on private property not one's own** even if the private property is open to the public, unless, you hold a concealed handgun permit - which would allow at least concealed carry and probably open carry.

    The AG's office posts the current statute as follows:

    "§ 13A-11-52
    Carrying pistol on private property; who may carry pistol.
    Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on private property not his own or under his control unless the person possesses a valid concealed weapon permit or the person has the consent of the owner or legal possessor of the premises; but this section shall not apply to any law enforcement officer in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties.
    (Acts 1919, No. 204, p. 196; Code 1923, § 3487; Code 1940, T. 14, § 163; Code 1975, § 13-6-122; Act 2013-283, § 2.)"

    The Anniston Star article states "state lawmakers in 2013 passed a law that made getting concealed-carry permits easier and allowed open carrying of firearms on most private property unless the owners expressly prohibit it, typically by posting a “no-guns” sign."

    What is the Star talking about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I looked at SB 286 at http://legiscan.com/AL/text/SB286/id/814781 - this bill does not repeal the statue prohibiting "carrying a pistol on premises not his own." So the Tulley case would seem to still be the law in Alabama - **no pistol carry on private property not one's own**
    oops, I stand corrected - SB 286 includes the following:

    "Section
    2 13A-11-52, Code of Alabama 1975, relating to the carrying of a
    3 pistol on the property of another, is repealed."

    So, is that the end of the story? Or is there some other hidden minefield for open carriers still out there?

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    Section 6 of SB 286 makes it clear - 13A-11-52 was repealed, and via Section 6, the legislature has clearly left it up to property owners - and not the state - to control gun carrier access to their property. That is what almost every other state does already.


    "Section 6. (a) A person who owns or controls property that is open to the public may restrict or prohibit as trespassers those who possess or carry a pistol, including those persons with a license issued or recognized under Section 13A-11-75, Code of Alabama 1975, while on the property provided that notice of the prohibition is prominently posted at any public entrance to the property. If a person disregards the notice and carries a pistol on the property, the person who owns or controls the property may in the presence of a law enforcement agent verbally request that the person carrying the pistol leave the property. If the person continues to remain on the property after the verbal request, the person who owns or controls the property may request the law enforcement agent to remove the person from the property as a trespasser under existing law. A person who disregards a posted notice shall be solely responsible for any injury, damage, or death occurring as a result of any actions regarding the presence or use of his or her pistol."

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    Thumbs up

    I open carry everywhere in the South Alabama area. Have no problems whatsoever, but I don't go looking for trouble and don't make it a point to draw attention to myself, or "show off" in a manner to make sure everyone around me knows that I've got a firearm on my hip. That type of behavior doesn't help anyone and actually hurts those of us who are proponents of open carry and the Right, not privilege, of having the means to defend our lives if and when such an unwanted incident and perpetrator(s) cross our paths. The way you comport yourself when open carrying is vitally important so keep that in mind.

    That said, I had occasion to intervene for a friend who has a local business in the area. He had closed for the day (Saturday) and I just happened to be in the area where his business is located. He had a customer who had refused to pay for a great deal of work he had performed for this customer that, had I performed that same work, would have cost his customer at least $1,500. Anyone else would have charged $2,0000 or more. He charged the man $300 which served to keep that man's business up and running and allow him to track inventory and business records. Without going into great detail, my friend had done some additional work on the equipment which made it temporarily inoperable until he received the meager payment for that work. It was one of those situations where he was walking a fine line even though he had provided his customer with parts that had cost my friend money to purchase.

    The cheap b*st*rd that refused to pay my friend called the city police and two officers had responded to that particular business and situation where the work was done. My friend had already closed his business as it was a Saturday and he was not around at the time. I walked over to talk with the officers and let them know what I was told about it. I also happened to be carrying my holstered .45acp as is my usual custom and practice. I spoke with both officers explaining what was going on and that I had been called to configure one part of the system in question and didn't charge the friend's customer anything as a courtesy to my friend.

    The officers felt that even though the friend's cheating customer was morally wrong in my estimation, they felt it could be a criminal matter relative to my friend and a civil matter relative to the thieving man who refused to pay for the service my friend rendered him in allowing him to run his business by keeping an integral part of the machines he uses to run that business. I told the officers that I would contact my friend and let him know what he needed to do and offered to intervene myself so that my friend didn't have to re-enter that business as he was a bit upset for having been cheated.

    One of the officers told me to be sure not to wear my pistol when going into the store as it might escalate the situation and scare the cheat. I stated my age and explained that I was far too old to get caught up in any problems of that nature and that I fully understood the need to leave the firearms behind. They said nothing about me open carrying, didn't ask me to disarm, didn't ask to see the pistol so they could run the serial number, NOTHING.

    I have to commend those Mobile city officers for their professionalism, knowing the laws on open carry, and not hassling me for doing so. They didn't appear to be rookies although neither had any stripes on their sleeves. One looked to be just slightly younger than I and the other was in his late 20s, early 30s. The younger one was a bit more aggressive but it was more to do with the situation they had been called out on and not me in general as I interpreted it.

    So walking right up to two Mobile city officers on foot fully armed to intervene on behalf of a friend after someone that had cheated him had called them and made certain allegations I was not privy to did not result in any untoward situation for me. I would mention the officer's names as I got both of their business cards but respect their privacy and will refrain from doing so. Again, I commend them for their professionalism regarding my open carrying and their apparently being knowledgeable of the laws on open in Alabama.

    I tend to be somewhat hyperbolic and tangential, but I hope the above story helps you come to a real life understanding based upon a real life experience that I had with two Mobile city officers just four days ago (March 8, 2014) while open carrying and while those officers were in the middle of an open call.
    Last edited by Tony_B; 03-12-2014 at 11:01 AM.
    (This is not to be construed as legal advice. If you need legal advice seek the services of an attorney.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    "Section
    2 13A-11-52, Code of Alabama 1975, relating to the carrying of a
    3 pistol on the property of another, is repealed."
    Do you carry your lawfully owned and holstered firearm on someone else's body or your own? Your body is your own private property under your own control.
    I think the key is to get the legislature's intent and look at the statute to see how they define the terms used in the legislation. It's incredibly important to read the definitions and jurisdictional sections of every piece of legislation because it simply may not apply to you or others. You won't know that if you only read the "Code." You must go back and read the statutes upon which the Code is based. The statutes are clear and there are footnotes that give the intent of the legislature at the time such legislation was passed.

    For example, the Code would have you believe you need a license to use the toilet if some bureaucrat wants to steal your wealth under the pretext of failure to possess a toilet license. (Being factious, but this is a good example.) Segue ahead. Americans have the Inalienable Right to earn a living in order support one's life. If not, you're a slave and are not free as we're told we are almost on a daily basis.

    I went to the local law library and looked up the legislation and statutes on business licenses and the statutes are crystal clear. A business license is a document to engage in a "privilege" and the monies paid for the license are a "privilege tax." I do not engage in any "privilege" for which a "privilege tax" is due or owing. You're situation may be different especially if you manufacture, distribute, or sell alcohol, tobacco, or firearms, or operate in a corporate capacity and are a corporate officer. These are rightful privileges for which a license is necessary since those activities can be harmful to society therefore, society may tax those privileges in order to cover the costs of any harm resulting from said activities.

    Do you smoke? The tax you pay on tobacco is supposed to offset the harm caused by the tobacco if any harm is caused at all. Many Americans are simply uninformed whether intentional or willful. But don't dare take their beer and ballgame for they will then riot in the streets if you do. Americans seem to have their priorities backwards as I see it. More concerned with the inane and no thought at all for their freedom, protecting and securing their Inalienable Rights, or taking the time to study law to know and understand the character and nature of those Rights.
    Last edited by Tony_B; 03-12-2014 at 10:58 AM.
    (This is not to be construed as legal advice. If you need legal advice seek the services of an attorney.)

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    The amended/replaced bill has been adopted; what made it into law is Act 2013-283.

    http://arc-sos.state.al.us/PAC/SOSACPDF.001/A0009908.PDF


    As for the law... it's a mess.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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