marshaul
Campaign Veteran
I wonder what those little asterisks would be if the profanity filter wasn't engaged.
Shut the **** up?
I wonder what those little asterisks would be if the profanity filter wasn't engaged.
There is only one thing "wrong" with his statement, he used (sort of) profanity to make it. And, 1911er's statement is not inconsistent with the principals of liberty. 1911er "analyzed and spoke negatively" of DrakeZ07's liberal rant on the military.So many things wrong with this statement... And by wrong, I simply mean inconsistent with the principles of liberty. Moreover, it really grinds me in a bad way when people act like I'm not entitled to analyze or to speak negatively of a certain occupation or activity unless I've done it myself. Unless I legally forfeit a significant portion of my rights, intentionally and knowingly subject myself to mistreatment of varying levels, participate in a war machine which may or may not be life-threatening, and which I may or may not find significant moral objections to, then I can't say anything negative about a veteran, or the military, or military policy, or the characteristics or benefits of their occupation, etc... That is complete ********.
(I am a "Marine brat" and a widowed Navy wife. I wouldn't wish military life or their welfare existence on anyone.)
How about this.... End the theft. All of it.
Own your life and property without paying "rent" to ANY government.
Eliminate every spying, whoring, police state "agency" in the country.
Eliminate every single bureaucratic cesspool bleeding us dry, at every level.
Bring all the troops home, from EVERYWHERE. Close all the bases, especially all foreign bases.
Leave the market alone, period... to rebuild the economy and allow business to create jobs for all who want to work.
The Obummer imperial insanity isn't the root of this problem... it's just one small symptom. Yes indeed, it needs to stop, but that's only one small leak in our sinking boat.
No human being, or group of people, have ANY legitimate authority to control the lives of others, or to steal/control their property.
We don't need "limited government." We need self ownership, self governance, and freedom.
There is only one thing "wrong" with his statement, he used (sort of) profanity to make it. And, 1911er's statement is not inconsistent with the principals of liberty. 1911er "analyzed and spoke negatively" of DrakeZ07's liberal rant on the military.
Irony is thick in this thread.
Marry Me Please!
Its very obvious you have never put your life on the line for those who live in our country so don't bad mouth those that do. In other words until you put your feet in their shoes **** you are using up good air.
Liberal rantings.....as usual.Oh, okay, well at least now I know that unless you're kissing the military's arse, and worshiping their service member's, and adamantly defending the asinine programs, protections, budgets, and benefits that the Military and their families get, then you're obviously a liberal. HOW SILLY OF ME TO FORGET THAT!
According to people like 1911'er, and OC for ME; for not going up to a soldier, and immediately offering them money, my property, my eternal thanks, and possibly offering my mouth for their pleasure, that make's me an un-Patriotic, Anti-Liberty, Liberal.
<snip>
Liberal rantings.....as usual.
Anyway.
Military service is a job, nothing more and nothing less. If those citizens who do serve do not like their "treatment", the conditions of employment, there is a alternative, as there is with any employment situation.
Military service is a noble calling, in my view, and many of our fellow citizens have come and gone who answered that call. Belittling their service and sacrifice is nothing but small mindedness.
Also, interjecting your gayness into this "conversation" is another liberal tactic to deflect from the fact that your view of the military, and the citizens who serve in particular, is in the minority, and possibly the extreme minority.....but, this is America. You are entitled to your opinions.
No convincing by me necessary.<snip> and possibly ******** ** ***** for their pleasure, <snip>
As I stated, military service is a job, and a noble calling, in my view of course.Military service is a job, nothing more and nothing less. If those citizens who do serve do not like their "treatment", the conditions of employment, there is a alternative, as there is with any employment situation.
There is only one thing "wrong" with his statement, he used (sort of) profanity to make it. And, 1911er's statement is not inconsistent with the principals of liberty. 1911er "analyzed and spoke negatively" of DrakeZ07's liberal rant on the military.
Irony is thick in this thread.
Interesting take on what I did not state.It would seem to me that his position, and yours, is that military service entitles you to social status and government benefits. That is inconsistent with the principles of liberty.
I don't agree with everything DrakeZ07 says. In fact, I probably disagree with almost everything he says. But, I believe he is correct about the attitudes being shown in this thread toward military service. Making great sacrifices for your fellow man is noble, but it doesn't make you nobility, it doesn't entitle you to take benefits provided by the government at the cost of the taxpayer. Furthermore but irrelevant, military service does not even always equate to making great sacrifices for your fellow man. Benefits of military service is what this whole thing is about. The position consistent with the principles of liberty is that there should be no benefits, because taxes are not justifiable and therefore anything, including "government benefits" to military service-members, funded with that tax money is not justifiable.
It would seem to me that his position, and yours, is that military service entitles you to social status and government benefits. That is inconsistent with the principles of liberty.
I don't agree with everything DrakeZ07 says. In fact, I probably disagree with almost everything he says. But, I believe he is correct about the attitudes being shown in this thread toward military service. Making great sacrifices for your fellow man is noble, but it doesn't make you nobility, it doesn't entitle you to take benefits provided by the government at the cost of the taxpayer. Furthermore but irrelevant, military service does not even always equate to making great sacrifices for your fellow man. Benefits of military service is what this whole thing is about. The position consistent with the principles of liberty is that there should be no benefits, because taxes are not justifiable and therefore anything, including "government benefits" to military service-members, funded with that tax money is not justifiable.
Raging at DrakeZ07 for "not giving enough respect" to military service-members is... well, it's just that. Have your little rage all you want, I won't stop you, just don't pretend your making any valid points. All your doing is slinging mud (I think that expression is right).
As others have said, military service is a job. The noble factor comes into play where when you sign the dotted align you are signing your life away for the defense of this country. You are volunteering your mind body and soul for the defense of others. Period.
You mention they may not have to sacrifice any of the above. That's irrelevant. They are saying "take it of you need it". So the government and 99% of the population realize and say..... sure you were willing to get blown up, shot, maimed, etc. For this country so well give you a 10% tax break (if that) on milk and eggs. Seems fair right?
I'll preempt some arguments...
Someone else already said it but it bears repeating, walk in their shoes before you trash talk. Get whacked with an IED and come tell us how you feel. Lose a brother or two. How about this.... even spend ONE day miserable at training. Just one day sleeping in crap solely for someone else.
Don't think for a second we do it for the reduced price bread. That's why its noble.
(a political rant) The other night on the CBS evening news: a story about how the government is cutting funding to the Military PX. For those of you that do not know what a PX is, it is nothing more than a grocery store often with some clothes, shoes, appliances, and other knick knacks.
Those with military ID can shop there and purchase low cost food (and other items) ...without the mark up, state, or local taxes on the items. As a great many Military families make what would be considered close to the poverty level in their pay, this is a huge help in their family food budget, saving them thousands each year
Back on topic, the government in a cost saving effort is cutting aid to these stores from (round numbers) from the present 1.2 Billion down to 440 million…. So first we cut hot meals to our personnel in the field, now we take the food away from their family????
All this to save money because according to congress woman Nancy Pelosi, there is no place else to cut… REALLY???
How about starting with the billions we send to countries that sponsor terrorism, murder people not of their faith, and burn our flag. How about curtailing our Monarch’s royal family vacations on the tax payer’s dollar? 200 million for the Africa vacation, 100 million for a family trip for the Wife to China with the girls. Or how about the 60 million spent on a recent spring break by the kids to show their friend s good time?
Cut spending Mr. President, good idea but let’s start first at home, AKA your home, and then those that do not like us, hate us, and flat out want us dead!!!
All this happens while the multi generational freeloaders in this country eat steak and lobster, while that those that serve our country, defend it with honor, that they and their family may go hungry... This is both sad and very very sick...
Most of the fellas I worked with were never so noble as to be serving for the greater good. It was just a job for the most part while I served.I would find what you describe far more noble if your logic wasn't dependent on implicitly forcing me to accept that you "defend others" (at least, others who aren't your immediate brothers-in-arms in combat).
I would find it really, really hard to take issue with someone who said "I think it's noble for folks to make sacrifices for what they feel is a greater good".
But when you declare that you are – in no uncertain terms – noble, because you defend me, I hope you'll understand when I tell you exactly which dark hole you can shove your paternalistic crap back into.
+1There's nothing noble about whining that folks with a different worldview don't respect you.
Interesting take on what I did not state.
I believe I stated, and you may correct me if I am wrong, that military service is a job, nothing more and nothing less. The service member's employer has chosen to include in the "benefits package" various benefits in exchange for the service provided to the federal government.
The Constitution places the burden on the federal government, and thus We The People, to maintain a army and navy. How the federal government lures citizens into service is certainly up for debate. The benefits package is what the feds use, where as conscription is the only alternative. And, taxes are justified, the current tax system is not, thanks to the 16A. Your definition of liberty, in my view, is inconsistent with the document that enumerates our rights. That protects, or should protect, our rights. I hold the Founders at their word and their wisdom on this specific subject. There is a mechanism to change the "benefits" structure that the feds use. How We The People decide to compensate our services members is, apparently, far too excessive to some.
Agree or disagree, I have no interest. I have stated my views on the military and those who choose to serve. Others hold a different view.
snip...
Regarding the benefits, though... IMO DrakeZ07's position was, basically, that military service-members should not receive these "government benefits." If you eliminate the elaboration, that is the base of his post, so far as I can see. You and other posters dissented to his position, indicating that you believe military service-members should receive "government benefits." All this seems ridiculously verbose, but, apparently that is necessary. I am not making up my own dots out of thin air to make the connections and draw the resulting picture, as you seem to be implying with your "Interesting take on what I did not say" comment.
No, government employment is not just "a job, nothing more, nothing less"
It is a job which is payrolled via exploitation, coercion and deceit. My job is not. The benefits that my employer provides me are not comparable to benefits which the government provides its employees.
They are payrolled via taxation, that is the relevant characterization. Whether or not they're "considered" so called "government employees" is not particularly relevant.
My paycheck, and whatever 'benefits' I receive, are not sourced from taxation.