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Thread: Vancouver Clark County courthouse - pistol lock box useage policy change 2-14

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    Regular Member CitizenJohn's Avatar
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    Vancouver Clark County courthouse - pistol lock box useage policy change 2-14

    In February 2014, the Main Clark County Court House in Vancouver on Franklin Street and the Juvenile Justice Center in Vancouver on West 11th Street changed their policy concerning pistol lock box usage. In the past, a person could use the boxes to check pistols and other prohibited items such as mace, knives, etc. Now, only pistols and their [associated] holsters, magazines and shells may be checked. Even if a pistol and [associated items] are checked, they cannot be accompanied by other prohibited items.
    I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenJohn View Post
    In February 2014, the Main Clark County Court House in Vancouver on Franklin Street and the Juvenile Justice Center in Vancouver on West 11th Street changed their policy concerning pistol lock box usage. In the past, a person could use the boxes to check pistols and other prohibited items such as mace, knives, etc. Now, only pistols and their [associated] holsters, magazines and shells may be checked. Even if a pistol and [associated items] are checked, they cannot be accompanied by other prohibited items.
    I wonder how amused a judge would be to discover that a courthouse security policy is why someone failed to obey his order to appear in his courtroom?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    I wonder how amused a judge would be to discover that a courthouse security policy is why someone failed to obey his order to appear in his courtroom?
    My guess is that would depend on the judge, from my experience many of them don't care about the law as much as they care about you being under their control and obeying them.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenJohn View Post
    .................. Even if a pistol and [associated items] are checked, they cannot be accompanied by other prohibited items.
    Do they think the "items" may conspire to a "violent act"? They are inanimate objects, not a "gang of bad items" Where do they get this fear of tools?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    It sounds like they're not happy about the law requiring they provide storage so they intend to comply with law begrudgingly, and comply with nothing more than the exact letter of the law. It's juvenile but typical.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    It sounds like they're not happy about the law requiring they provide storage so they intend to comply with law begrudgingly, and comply with nothing more than the exact letter of the law. It's juvenile but typical.

    +1 Nothing more petty than wanna be tyrants.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    It sounds like they're not happy about the law requiring they provide storage so they intend to comply with law begrudgingly, and comply with nothing more than the exact letter of the law. It's juvenile but typical.

    RCW9.41.300 covers more than just pistols. The court has to supply a lock box for weapons; not
    just pistols:


    For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.


    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

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    First and foremost: the laws limiting where you can carry are not legal -- our RKBA is absolute.

    Now, anyone who would leave their guns in charge of a gov't agency for whatever reason needs to re-assess this behavior.

    It may have been fine in the past but this is no guarantee of future happiness.

    There is zero chance I would hand over any gun to a gov't agency for any purpose.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    My guess is that would depend on the judge, from my experience many of them don't care about the law as much as they care about you being under their control and obeying them.
    I'm pretty sure arriving at the courthouse to answer a summons, only to discover such a policy change (being unaware of it prior to arrival) would count as entrapment. No matter what you do, you WILL violate the law at that point if you're carrying items that are not pistols but are also not allowed past security.

    Entering a secure area with prohibited items? Illegal. Locking them up? Not allowed. Going home to put them away? You'll miss your court date. Garbage can? Something tells me that would lead to an arrest as well.

    Would make a fascinating legal argument in court, though I'd hate to be the test case...I can't afford the number of appeals it would likely take to reach a court that isn't insane.
    Last edited by Difdi; 03-17-2014 at 03:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    I'm pretty sure arriving at the courthouse to answer a summons, only to discover such a policy change (being unaware of it prior to arrival) would count as entrapment. No matter what you do, you WILL violate the law at that point if you're carrying items that are not pistols but are also not allowed past security.

    Entering a secure area with prohibited items? Illegal. Locking them up? Not allowed. Going home to put them away? You'll miss your court date. Garbage can? Something tells me that would lead to an arrest as well.

    Would make a fascinating legal argument in court, though I'd hate to be the test case...I can't afford the number of appeals it would likely take to reach a court that isn't insane.
    Not entrapment ... one can call prior to shooting off to the courthouse...gun owners, courts have said, have a special responsibility.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Not entrapment ... one can call prior to shooting off to the courthouse...gun owners, courts have said, have a special responsibility.
    Why would you reasonably need to call ahead to find out whether someone sworn to uphold and enforce the law is in compliance with something mandated by law?

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    There was a judge in Vancouver who carried. I wonder what his thoughts are?
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    RCW9.41.300 covers more than just pistols. The court has to supply a lock box for weapons; not
    just pistols:


    For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.


    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.
    Get 35 people together in a line with pocket knives and have thm jam up the security line.... If enough people jam the line and demand to check pocket knives I have a feeling the minimum wage guards will blink first....

    Wouldn't a guard obeying the order not to check your weapons and causing you to miss court date be committing a tortious interference.....? Interesting civil court theory...
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 03-19-2014 at 01:47 PM.
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    Regular Member Fibresteve's Avatar
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    Vancouver Clark County courthouse - pistol lock box useage policy change 2-14

    Went to the Clark County court house today. Went in at the main entrance (Franklin St.) when I got to the security check point I asked if they have a lockbox for firearms. They said they do but that they are at the West entrance on the other side of the building. I thanked them and promptly went to the West entrance. When I got there I again asked if the have a lockbox for firearms. They said yes. The boxes are right when you walk in the door. They hand you a key with a number on it that corresponds with a lockbox. You open the lockbox, put your firearm and ID ( I used my CPL) inside the box. Lock the box hand the security person the key and they give you a token with the same number as the lockbox. Proceed through security and go on your merry way. Was real easy and pleasant.
    Last edited by Fibresteve; 03-25-2014 at 02:28 AM.

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Is the security person an officer? Did they keep the key after you handed it to them?

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    Regular Member Fibresteve's Avatar
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    The security person was not an officer. She kept the key and locked it in another lockbox behind security.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fibresteve View Post
    The security person was not an officer. She kept the key and locked it in another lockbox behind security.
    You're supposed to keep the key.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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    Regular Member Fibresteve's Avatar
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    Vancouver Clark County courthouse - pistol lock box useage policy change 2-14

    I wanted to keep the key but they keep the key locked in their lockbox and give you a token with your lockbox number on it. I don't necessarily like this procedure but if you were to lose the key they still have the key to open the lockbox. Over all they were very friendly and the whole procedure went smoothly.
    Last edited by Fibresteve; 03-25-2014 at 12:40 PM.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    They should have a spare to the lockbox. They come with multiple keys. The law says they are to provide you with a stationary box and key or a designated official to be custodian of weapons.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Why would you reasonably need to call ahead to find out whether someone sworn to uphold and enforce the law is in compliance with something mandated by law?
    Because they don't --- you know that ... lol

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    If the person who kept the key and didn't give it to you was not an officer then they violated the RCW.

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    Regular Member Fibresteve's Avatar
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    When you say officer do you mean Police officer?

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Ah nevermind, it's a vague "official."

    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.
    Is "official" defined anywhere in a related RCW? Can't seem to find anything.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fibresteve View Post
    I wanted to keep the key but they keep the key locked in their lockbox and give you a token with your lockbox number on it. I don't necessarily like this procedure but if you were to lose the key they still have the key to open the lockbox. Over all they were very friendly and the whole procedure went smoothly.
    What happens when you forget to carry ID and you're not CC that day?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Contrarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fibresteve View Post
    Went to the Clark County court house today.
    --snip--
    You open the lockbox, put your firearm and ID ( I used my CPL) inside the box. Lock the box hand the security person the key and they give you a token with the same number as the lockbox. Proceed through security and go on your merry way. Was real easy and pleasant.
    Might have missed something here...why did you put your ID in with your weapon?

    I'd not be pleased to know that not only did someone else have access to my gun, but that they also knew who I was.

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