Vancouver Clark County courthouse - pistol lock box useage policy change 2-14

CitizenJohn · Mar 15, 2014

In February 2014, the Main Clark County Court House in Vancouver on Franklin Street and the Juvenile Justice Center in Vancouver on West 11th Street changed their policy concerning pistol lock box usage. In the past, a person could use the boxes to check pistols and other prohibited items such as mace, knives, etc. Now, only pistols and their [associated] holsters, magazines and shells may be checked. Even if a pistol and [associated items] are checked, they cannot be accompanied by other prohibited items.

Difdi · Mar 15, 2014

CitizenJohn said:
In February 2014, the Main Clark County Court House in Vancouver on Franklin Street and the Juvenile Justice Center in Vancouver on West 11th Street changed their policy concerning pistol lock box usage. In the past, a person could use the boxes to check pistols and other prohibited items such as mace, knives, etc. Now, only pistols and their [associated] holsters, magazines and shells may be checked. Even if a pistol and [associated items] are checked, they cannot be accompanied by other prohibited items.

I wonder how amused a judge would be to discover that a courthouse security policy is why someone failed to obey his order to appear in his courtroom?

sudden valley gunner · Mar 15, 2014

Difdi said:
I wonder how amused a judge would be to discover that a courthouse security policy is why someone failed to obey his order to appear in his courtroom?

My guess is that would depend on the judge, from my experience many of them don't care about the law as much as they care about you being under their control and obeying them.

MSG Laigaie · Mar 16, 2014

CitizenJohn said:
.................. Even if a pistol and [associated items] are checked, they cannot be accompanied by other prohibited items.

Do they think the "items" may conspire to a "violent act"? They are inanimate objects, not a "gang of bad items" Where do they get this fear of tools?

Mainsail · Mar 16, 2014

It sounds like they're not happy about the law requiring they provide storage so they intend to comply with law begrudgingly, and comply with nothing more than the exact letter of the law. It's juvenile but typical.

sudden valley gunner · Mar 16, 2014

Mainsail said:
It sounds like they're not happy about the law requiring they provide storage so they intend to comply with law begrudgingly, and comply with nothing more than the exact letter of the law. It's juvenile but typical.

+1 Nothing more petty than wanna be tyrants.

NavyMike · Mar 17, 2014

Mainsail said:
It sounds like they're not happy about the law requiring they provide storage so they intend to comply with law begrudgingly, and comply with nothing more than the exact letter of the law. It's juvenile but typical.

RCW9.41.300 covers more than just pistols. The court has to supply a lock box for weapons; not
just pistols:

For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.

In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

davidmcbeth · Mar 17, 2014

First and foremost: the laws limiting where you can carry are not legal -- our RKBA is absolute.

Now, anyone who would leave their guns in charge of a gov't agency for whatever reason needs to re-assess this behavior.

It may have been fine in the past but this is no guarantee of future happiness.

There is zero chance I would hand over any gun to a gov't agency for any purpose.

Difdi · Mar 17, 2014

sudden valley gunner said:
My guess is that would depend on the judge, from my experience many of them don't care about the law as much as they care about you being under their control and obeying them.

I'm pretty sure arriving at the courthouse to answer a summons, only to discover such a policy change (being unaware of it prior to arrival) would count as entrapment. No matter what you do, you WILL violate the law at that point if you're carrying items that are not pistols but are also not allowed past security.

Entering a secure area with prohibited items? Illegal. Locking them up? Not allowed. Going home to put them away? You'll miss your court date. Garbage can? Something tells me that would lead to an arrest as well.

Would make a fascinating legal argument in court, though I'd hate to be the test case...I can't afford the number of appeals it would likely take to reach a court that isn't insane.

davidmcbeth · Mar 17, 2014

Difdi said:
I'm pretty sure arriving at the courthouse to answer a summons, only to discover such a policy change (being unaware of it prior to arrival) would count as entrapment. No matter what you do, you WILL violate the law at that point if you're carrying items that are not pistols but are also not allowed past security.

Entering a secure area with prohibited items? Illegal. Locking them up? Not allowed. Going home to put them away? You'll miss your court date. Garbage can? Something tells me that would lead to an arrest as well.

Would make a fascinating legal argument in court, though I'd hate to be the test case...I can't afford the number of appeals it would likely take to reach a court that isn't insane.

Not entrapment ... one can call prior to shooting off to the courthouse...gun owners, courts have said, have a special responsibility.

Difdi · Mar 18, 2014

davidmcbeth said:
Not entrapment ... one can call prior to shooting off to the courthouse...gun owners, courts have said, have a special responsibility.

Why would you reasonably need to call ahead to find out whether someone sworn to uphold and enforce the law is in compliance with something mandated by law?

gogodawgs · Mar 18, 2014

There was a judge in Vancouver who carried. I wonder what his thoughts are?

EMNofSeattle · Mar 19, 2014

NavyMike said:
RCW9.41.300 covers more than just pistols. The court has to supply a lock box for weapons; not
just pistols:

For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.

In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

Get 35 people together in a line with pocket knives and have thm jam up the security line.... If enough people jam the line and demand to check pocket knives I have a feeling the minimum wage guards will blink first....

Wouldn't a guard obeying the order not to check your weapons and causing you to miss court date be committing a tortious interference.....? Interesting civil court theory...

Fibresteve · Mar 25, 2014

Went to the Clark County court house today. Went in at the main entrance (Franklin St.) when I got to the security check point I asked if they have a lockbox for firearms. They said they do but that they are at the West entrance on the other side of the building. I thanked them and promptly went to the West entrance. When I got there I again asked if the have a lockbox for firearms. They said yes. The boxes are right when you walk in the door. They hand you a key with a number on it that corresponds with a lockbox. You open the lockbox, put your firearm and ID ( I used my CPL) inside the box. Lock the box hand the security person the key and they give you a token with the same number as the lockbox. Proceed through security and go on your merry way. Was real easy and pleasant.

Alpine · Mar 25, 2014

Is the security person an officer? Did they keep the key after you handed it to them?

Fibresteve · Mar 25, 2014

The security person was not an officer. She kept the key and locked it in another lockbox behind security.

decklin · Mar 25, 2014

Fibresteve said:
The security person was not an officer. She kept the key and locked it in another lockbox behind security.

You're supposed to keep the key.

Fibresteve · Mar 25, 2014

I wanted to keep the key but they keep the key locked in their lockbox and give you a token with your lockbox number on it. I don't necessarily like this procedure but if you were to lose the key they still have the key to open the lockbox. Over all they were very friendly and the whole procedure went smoothly.

decklin · Mar 25, 2014

They should have a spare to the lockbox. They come with multiple keys. The law says they are to provide you with a stationary box and key or a designated official to be custodian of weapons.

davidmcbeth · Mar 25, 2014

Difdi said:
Why would you reasonably need to call ahead to find out whether someone sworn to uphold and enforce the law is in compliance with something mandated by law?

Because they don't --- you know that ... lol

Vancouver Clark County courthouse - pistol lock box useage policy change 2-14

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