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Thread: Three arrested for open carry of handguns at mall in Cape Girardeau

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Three arrested for open carry of handguns at mall in Cape Girardeau

    Hhhmmm. Bad thing not to know. Missouri's open carry patchwork being determined by municipal ordinance was cemented in case law as a result of an appeal against a conviction for violating Cape Girardeau's open carry law. It is the only place OC is illegal in the county (unless something has changed recently - I haven't been real up on the issue the last year or so).

    http://www.semissourian.com/story/2061077.html

    Three subjects were taken into custody today at the West Park Mall for openly displaying handguns, according to a news release from the Cape Girardeau Police Department.

    The news release said about 1:20 p.m., security officers at the mall contacted the police department to notify it of four subjects who had entered the mall, some with weapons.

    Cape Girardeau police officers responded and discovered three subjects carrying weapons, according to the report.

    Shelia R. Waeltermann, 22 of Park Hills, Mo.; Fawn F. Chambers, 28, of Doniphan, Mo.; and Robert E. Chambers, 42, also of Doniphan, were taken into custody for violating a city ordinance that prohibits openly carrying a firearm readily capable of lethal use, the news release said.

    The three subjects were booked and released on municipal summonses to appear in court.

  2. #2
    Regular Member JEStucker's Avatar
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    I don't know how many times we have to emphasize this...

    Know the city ordinances!!!

    Cape Girardeau has always been on the NO-GO for OC list. I would also bet money that there's a sign on the mall doors somewhere that has a "No Weapons" logo...

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    And they are from Missouri....They should have known better.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    NOW is the time to call all your congresscritters and ask them why these people were arrested when they simply would have been asked to leave anywhere else in the state.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    NOW is the time to call all your congresscritters and ask them why these people were arrested when they simply would have been asked to leave anywhere else in the state.
    I doubt that is true. I've never tested your theory, but I doubt that would be the result if one tried OC in the City of St. Louis, for example. I would expect a similar result as in the news story.

    Obviously, as a long time member here, I want to see OC preempted in MO just like CC so you don't have to worry about crossing the street while OC and suddenly breaking the law because you didn't know a city limit ran down the middle of that street.

    On the other hand, that is not the reality at this point and it is just as obviously incumbent on us to know the law. I found this situation especially egregious as anyone putting in just a little effort to know about OC laws would know that along with St. Louis City, Cape Girardeau is one of the most notoriously anti-OC municipalities in the state.

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    Mexico is the same way, no OC or you risk arrest because you are violating the law and they will sort it out later. At least that is what the city attorney told me. As for why they were arrested and not asked to leave, would not have done them any good if they continued to OC while outside, still not legal. Sucks that it happened, but like I said before, they should have known better.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    I use to live in Cape Girardeau; it is a pit of liberalism ruled by the university. Wife and I both worked at the university but moved to the county as soon as we could, I did my best to stay out of town as much as I could. Jackson is the county seat and I was never bothered for OC while in that town.

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    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Oregon here,

    ... so no state preemption in Missouri?
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Sega View Post
    Oregon here,

    ... so no state preemption in Missouri?
    While open carry is generally legal in Missouri, their preemption statute is unique in that it preempts the entire field of firearms law except for the regulation of open carry. Consequently, carrying openly in Missouri will expose you to a checkerboard of local ordinances.
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=263
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Yeah- Missouri is a checkerboard of statues. A while back I visited the Ozarks and didn't bother OCing because of the patchwork of regulations. Didn't want to chance ending up like these OCers.
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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    Regular Member HP995's Avatar
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    7om: "They should have known better."

    True. But Americans have to ask, do we support unjust and unconstitutional laws?

    People who condemn and deride everyone who makes a mistake under invalid law probably think they are helping, because they will encourage people to first obey the law, then change it. I expect that argument here if any compassion is shown for the victims.

    But I'm old fashioned, and remember something called right and wrong. It's one thing to encourage people not to break a law. That's wise, and can help an effort to change laws and show that we are law abiding people.

    But it's another thing to actually side against anyone who runs afoul of an unjust law and never protest against their ordeal, no matter what the situation. That is ignoring justice. It's also fighting with one hand behind your back.

    If a city received a lot of peaceful outcry over an incident, that might bring their ordinances into question. No, I'm not encouraging such incidents. But I am encouraging a moral compass.

    Anyway the patchwork of law can be dangerous. Hopefully MO will have an exemption soon; support SB 613.

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    Not really siding against them, I am glad they exercise their right. However, what I do not link is the fact that they apparently did not check the law before going, thus giving negative news to open carry.

    And while the law may be unjust, it is still the law unfortunately and that gives the anti gunners a hand up on us. All I meant with my comment was that they should not have done something that could impact what we do with negative light.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    Yeah- Missouri is a checkerboard of statues. A while back I visited the Ozarks and didn't bother OCing because of the patchwork of regulations. Didn't want to chance ending up like these OCers.


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    MO does have the patchwork of laws that are very disadvantageous to OCing. One has to really research the municipality to see what their ordinances are. With SB613, hopefully some of the confusion will be eliminated. Those with a CCW will have preemption on their side. It isn't perfect, but in politics, it's one step at a time. The proposed constitutional amendment, SJR36, if passed by the House/Senate, then the people, will hopefully give support for the future.

    The House seems to have some issues going on in it. Not sure if it's SB613 or some other junk. I hope SB613 gets passed out after their Spring Break and sent to the Gubbinor for signing; chances are he won't sign it, so an override is needed....I'd like to get it before they adjourn and the Gubbinor makes any appointments of Repubs that voted for it.
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    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While open carry is generally legal in Missouri, their preemption statute is unique in that it preempts the entire field of firearms law except for the regulation of open carry. Consequently, carrying openly in Missouri will expose you to a checkerboard of local ordinances.
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=263
    Yep, Found the MO state preemption, #3: LINK

    Section 21-750
    3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243.

    Anyone have the exact city ordinance they were charged under? What's the min/max penalty they are looking at?

    Also depends on the legal definition to "readily capable of lethal use"... does that mean open carry but unloaded, or open carry w/o a round in the chamber, or safety on in a retention holster? I.e. how readily is readily?

    Also, the mall is (I assume) private property, so they can have their own weapons rules, but that just gets you trespassed, not arrested (unless you fail to leave).
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Sec. 17-98. Unlawful possession or use of weapons.

    No penalty is listed. I suspect that the similar offense penalty in RSMo is applicable.

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    I just came back from a hog hunt in Reynolds Co. It was great, may never deer hunt there again. LOL
    Was talking to my dad and few old men and they will be written the organizers of the gun shows that are held at Cape. Because of Capes no OC law they are asking that gun show organizers take the show to a different city.
    For those that live in that area, do you think that's a good idea?

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelhorse View Post
    I just came back from a hog hunt in Reynolds Co. It was great, may never deer hunt there again. LOL
    Was talking to my dad and few old men and they will be written the organizers of the gun shows that are held at Cape. Because of Capes no OC law they are asking that gun show organizers take the show to a different city.
    For those that live in that area, do you think that's a good idea?
    Can't hurt to ask. It will come down to money.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While open carry is generally legal in Missouri, their preemption statute is unique in that it preempts the entire field of firearms law except for the regulation of open carry. Consequently, carrying openly in Missouri will expose you to a checkerboard of local ordinances.
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=263
    Got it the 2A only applies in certain area's....like walking through a mine field.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Got it the 2A only applies in certain area's....like walking through a mine field.
    Gotta watch where you step



    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Gotta watch where you step



    GULP!!!......that's going to leave a mark!
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    There is Legisaltion Pending before The Missouri Legislature that would Fix This Problem, albeit that it would only Apply to Certain Persons who have Valid Concealed Carry Permits Issued under Missouri Law. The Bill is found here: http://www.moga.mo.gov/

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    There is Legisaltion Pending before The Missouri Legislature that would Fix This Problem, albeit that it would only Apply to Certain Persons who have Valid Concealed Carry Permits Issued under Missouri Law. The Bill is found here: http://www.moga.mo.gov/
    Can you offer a more specific/direct link? That one looked like a maze.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    It's SB613. I don't love it, but it's the best we're likely to get this year and is not guaranteed.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    It's SB613. I don't love it, but it's the best we're likely to get this year and is not guaranteed.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    There is some very convoluted wording there, but the following seems good:

    OPEN CARRY ORDINANCES - Section 21.750
    This act provides that the open carrying of a firearm may not be prohibited by a political subdivision for any person with a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit in his or her possession who presents such endorsement or permit upon the demand of a law enforcement officer. In addition, no person carrying a concealed or unconcealed handgun may be disarmed or physically restrained by a law enforcement officer unless under arrest or if there is no reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal activity. Any person who violates these provisions may be issued a citation for up to $35. No ordinance of a political subdivision may be construed to preclude the use of a firearm to defend property or persons.

    Confused by the part bolded above - seems contradictory. Would makesense if the no were removed.


    That and is an officer who "violates these provisions" by detaining someone unlawfully to be issued a citation?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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