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Thread: Is it legal for me to put my open carry ......

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Is it legal for me to put my open carry ......

    My local community center has a pool and weight room. I go in there all the time open carrying. Is it legal for me to, in the locker room, to put my gun which is in a paddle holster, take it off my hip in its holster, put it in my gym bag, take the magazine out, I don't carry it chambered, go to the weight room and lock in a very strong locker there. It would be unloaded and locked in a secure container and I am in the room with it at all times. I would have a bodyguard 380 in my pocket all the time with my cpl on me. Anything illegal about this?

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Nothing illegal about it, but I've heard too many horror stories about gym lockers being broke into. Also why don't you have one in the chamber? This is not CA, you are allowed in WA to have one in the chamber. If you think you have time to chamber a round, you have time to call 911.
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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    Yeah.. the problem i see is carrying without one in the chamber...

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    Regular Member 509rifas's Avatar
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    Legal yes, but if you got the 380 with you, why bring it at all, or why not lock it in the trunk or glove box?
    Someone is more likely to see you putting it in your locker than glove box, and increase the risk of someone keeping an eye on you while his buddy cuts the lock off.
    I leave mine in the car when I go to the pool, as there's no lockers but they give you a tag for the bag and put it in a behind the desk storage area, which means turning a gun over to a 16 year old.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Totally legal. I put mine in the locker too. But as others have said why don't you carry one in the chamber?
    I know everyone likes to think that they'll have time to rack the slide but you don't. Even assuming all your motor skills work flawlessly it adds time to the action. Time that you may not have.
    You may not have two hands available. The attacker may be too close or your second arm may be incapacitated. That pretty much means you'll have to rack it with your knees. Good luck under stress while someone is on you.
    Take it from someone who's had to use a firearm under stress, you want to put the attacker at every disadvantage possible.
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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Thank you all for answering my question. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some law I didn't know about. Thank you so much.

    To answer your question about empty chamber. I come from Oakland California. Very high crime rate, 100 murders a year. I completed a reserve police officer academy, PC 832. I worked in armed security for 10 in very high crime places dealing with very serious criminals and gang members. I have been lucky or very aware of my surroundings as to not have a gun grab, although it was always on my mind.

    I now live in Mayberry RFD. We don't even have 1 murder a year in Lynnwood. I haven't herd about any gun grabs up here or on this web site, but I remain aware.

    Lets say a criminal grabs my gun. The first thing would be to yell about whats going on, drawing attention to my situation. Then defend against the gun grab, you pick the technic. Give it 10 seconds of spinning around fighting the suspect, with the crowd looking on, the video camera rolling if your in a store or community center. If he does get the gun, its going to take him two seconds to figure it out and chamber, and in that time, if all goes well, I shoot him in the eye ball with my primary weapon which has been in my pocket.

    You see I look at Open Carry as an educational tool. I'm educating the public about good guns, good people, and you don't need the cops, why waste the money on a justice system, if there are no victims, then there are no prisons and courts, and no glorified baby sitters.

    Anything wrong with this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    [ ... ] Anything wrong with this?
    An empty gun is useless on the cusp, less useful than a knife.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Just because these thing have not happened in your area, it does not mean that they will not happen. If you are going to carry with an empty chamber to give your self a (dis) advantage and educate the public, Then why not carry one of the very realistic looking airsoft clones? This will accomplish exactly what you are espousing at present. ie: empty chamber, confuse the gun grabber while you "shoot him in the eye" with your other gun.
    If in a gun grab situation bad guy gets your empty chamber gun, while he fumbles with chambering a round, you shoot him with the full knowledge that the gun was for all practical purposes "unloaded", you have just put yourself in a very bad position.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Not the mythical gun grab subject again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Somebody shoot me now!
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Just because these thing have not happened in your area, it does not mean that they will not happen. If you are going to carry with an empty chamber to give your self a (dis) advantage and educate the public, Then why not carry one of the very realistic looking airsoft clones? This will accomplish exactly what you are espousing at present. ie: empty chamber, confuse the gun grabber while you "shoot him in the eye" with your other gun.
    If in a gun grab situation bad guy gets your empty chamber gun, while he fumbles with chambering a round, you shoot him with the full knowledge that the gun was for all practical purposes "unloaded", you have just put yourself in a very bad position.
    Is it reasonable to assume that after the suspect in question steals my $1300 gun out of my holster, points it at me pulls the trigger once, realizes the safety is on, takes the safety off, pulls the trigger a second time, not chambered, chambers a round, and then everything for him goes dark, you assert I have some how put myself in a very bad position, how so, explain it to me, there must be something my 50 year old mind has missed?

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    Is it reasonable to assume that after the suspect in question steals my $1300 gun out of my holster, points it at me pulls the trigger once, realizes the safety is on, takes the safety off, pulls the trigger a second time, not chambered, chambers a round, and then everything for him goes dark, you assert I have some how put myself in a very bad position, how so, explain it to me, there must be something my 50 year old mind has missed?
    Yes, why does he have your gun? Just like defensive driving, you should be defensive carrying. Don't put yourself in a position to have your gun grabbed. Leaving out LEO's that are wrestling with a BG, there has been maybe one report of an OC gun grab that I've heard vague references to. I don't let anybody that I know touch anything of mine that cost's $1300. So all that time the BG is going to spend taking off the safety, racking the slide ect is exactly the same time YOU would spend doing the same thing in an emergency. Thus leaving YOU in the same situation as the BG in your scenario. It also sounds like you have a holster with zero retention other than gravity. I live in Lacey, so I may not be terribly worried about crime, it does happen EVERYWHERE. Is there something my 52 year old (beat ya) mind has missed?
    Last edited by golddigger14s; 03-17-2014 at 12:36 PM.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member Gallowmere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    Is it reasonable to assume that after the suspect in question steals my $1300 gun out of my holster, points it at me pulls the trigger once, realizes the safety is on, takes the safety off, pulls the trigger a second time, not chambered, chambers a round, and then everything for him goes dark, you assert I have some how put myself in a very bad position, how so, explain it to me, there must be something my 50 year old mind has missed?
    The point is more that said gun grab should never be allowed to happen in the first place. If you are carrying your firearm in a position that makes it easy for someone to grab without you seeing them first (for example 6 o'clock), you're quite frankly, doing it wrong. If you're that worried about it, carry appendix, where someone would literally have to wrap their arm around you in order to reach your firearm. If you cannot respond to that before they have unholstered your firearm and have it pointed at you, I personally think that you were screwed from the outset.

    The biggest problem with carrying with an empty chamber, is that it's easy to think that you will have the faculties to react to a threatening situation in a timely manner, while you are actively thinking about it. Under the effects of adrenaline, your hands turn into flippers, your fingers more like ping pong paddles, your mind actually works against you in trying to operate a firearm, and nearly all training that isn't done in such a situation becomes mostly useless. The person coming for you already has at least some advantage over you (because they know their intent before you do), so why would you give them even more time?

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 509rifas View Post
    Legal yes, but if you got the 380 with you, why bring it at all, or why not lock it in the trunk or glove box?
    Yeah, because nobody ever gets mugged or murdered in the parking lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    Lets say a criminal grabs my gun. The first thing would be to yell about whats going on, drawing attention to my situation. Then defend against the gun grab, you pick the technic. Give it 10 seconds of spinning around fighting the suspect, with the crowd looking on, the video camera rolling if your in a store or community center. If he does get the gun, its going to take him two seconds to figure it out and chamber, and in that time, if all goes well, I shoot him in the eye ball with my primary weapon which has been in my pocket.

    You see I look at Open Carry as an educational tool. I'm educating the public about good guns, good people, and you don't need the cops, why waste the money on a justice system, if there are no victims, then there are no prisons and courts, and no glorified baby sitters.

    Anything wrong with this?
    Well for one thing, why are you carrying without a retention holster? With an unsecured holster, yeah, someone could grab your gun and you could struggle for it. But if you took the sensible precaution of buying even an average quality holster to secure your weapon to your belt, the scenario is that someone tries to grab your gun and fails. No ten second fight, just him tugging on it without result. This is Washington, not a Hollywood action movie

    A more likely scenario is that you really need that gun NOW and instead of simply drawing, flicking the safety off and using it, you have to reach across, grasp the slide and while you're doing that, the immediate threat you needed a gun for is free to attack you. You might not get a second chance.

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    Regular Member Gallowmere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Well for one thing, why are you carrying without a retention holster? With an unsecured holster, yeah, someone could grab your gun and you could struggle for it. But if you took the sensible precaution of buying even an average quality holster to secure your weapon to your belt, the scenario is that someone tries to grab your gun and fails. No ten second fight, just him tugging on it without result. This is Washington, not a Hollywood action movie

    A more likely scenario is that you really need that gun NOW and instead of simply drawing, flicking the safety off and using it, you have to reach across, grasp the slide and while you're doing that, the immediate threat you needed a gun for is free to attack you. You might not get a second chance.
    Reading this also reminded me of another valid point. What happens if you end up with say, your off-hand severely injured or pinned down at some point? With a round in the chamber, you could have just pulled, clicked off the safety, pointed, and fired. Now you may well be screwed. Granted, it's a good idea to practice racking your slide off of your belt or shoe (assuming the sights on your pistol will allow you to do so) as an extra contingency, but if you find yourself pinned down getting your face beat in, that might not be an option either.
    Last edited by Gallowmere; 03-17-2014 at 04:19 PM.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    I carry when I go to my gym as well. What I usually do is either lock it in my truck's center console or carry concealed into the gym, put it into my gym bag, then lock the bag in a locker. That way the risk of exposing my firearm to potential theft is minimal.

    If you let somebody get the opportunity to successfully conduct a gun grab, then you should not be carrying. Please give me some statistics about people grabbing a firearm and using it against the carrier. When I started carrying, I did so without one in the chamber just so I could get comfortable and while I was waiting to get my WA CPL so I didn't have to rack the slide every time I needed to get into my vehicle. From everything I have learned, when you need to draw, you do not have the time, nor the motor skills, to rack the slide in time.
    Last edited by acmariner99; 03-17-2014 at 05:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Yes, why does he have your gun? Just like defensive driving, you should be defensive carrying. Don't put yourself in a position to have your gun grabbed. Leaving out LEO's that are wrestling with a BG, there has been maybe one report of an OC gun grab that I've heard vague references to. I don't let anybody that I know touch anything of mine that cost's $1300. So all that time the BG is going to spend taking off the safety, racking the slide ect is exactly the same time YOU would spend doing the same thing in an emergency. Thus leaving YOU in the same situation as the BG in your scenario. It also sounds like you have a holster with zero retention other than gravity. I live in Lacey, so I may not be terribly worried about crime, it does happen EVERYWHERE. Is there something my 52 year old (beat ya) mind has missed?
    Yup, the same thing my 74 year old mind has missed.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Response to the original post. No, nothing unlawful about locking your firearm in the locker and all the stuff you described about the process of removing the firearm from your person to storing it in the locker. But... it's not a wise idea. As others have said, what's to stop somebody else in the locker room seeing you do this, waiting for you to leave and then just breaking into the locker and taking your firearm when you're not around?

    A better option would be to see if your gym has someplace much more secure that you may store your firearm during your visit. I can tell you that when I got to the YMCA, they have lock boxes in the main office of the building for just such things as firearms and valuables. I also know for a fact that the Pierce County Sheriff frequents the same exact YMCA location as I do and he also stores his firearm in the same exact lock boxes that I do. At this point, I simply just walk right into the office, walk to the room with the lock boxes, remove my firearm from my person and stuff it in the lock box, take the key and go about my business. Nobody even bats an eye or says a word to me other then the usual friendly greetings.

    Response to not carrying one in the chamber. I won't rehash what has already been covered by others here. I will say that your reasoning for not carrying with one in the chamber "I come from Oakland California." This isn't California, and you are not carrying in the situation you described in a professional manner. There is no law in this state that says you must not carry loaded (to include one in the chamber) except for RCW 9.41.050 when you may not have a "loaded" firearm in a vehicle without a CPL. The ONLY reason I can think of not to carry with a round in the chamber is if the firearm you are carrying is not to kind when it comes to carrying with one in the chamber. Only reason I ever carried without one in the chamber was when I did not possess a CPL and I was needing to take the bus for transportation. All I needed to do in that situation was eject the mag, stuff it in my pocket and then go about my business.

    Carrying without the firearm fully loaded is unwise and unsafe in most situations. Just food for thought.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Personally I carry chambered when carrying a semi auto.

    But what use has this argument been over the round in a chamber? This is a silly thing o feud over.
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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Carry w/o a round chambered:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgAXO452XSQ
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Another reason I prefer open carry. I have a Taurus PT111 and their are only a couple holster that can be had for this firearm. I can not afford to have one specially made.
    I purchased a Kydex IWB holster but it flips the safety off when I holster it, so I do carry loaded but not in the chamber. I don't like that if pokes me in the side and rises up when I sit down.
    To open carry I purchased a bulldog OWB, kind of floppy but has a strap. I carry with one in the chamber with it.
    I have tried about every Blackhawk on the market trying to find a better retention holster. No go.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Another reason I prefer open carry. I have a Taurus PT111 and their are only a couple holster that can be had for this firearm. I can not afford to have one specially made.
    I purchased a Kydex IWB holster but it flips the safety off when I holster it, so I do carry loaded but not in the chamber. I don't like that if pokes me in the side and rises up when I sit down.
    To open carry I purchased a bulldog OWB, kind of floppy but has a strap. I carry with one in the chamber with it.
    I have tried about every Blackhawk on the market trying to find a better retention holster. No go.
    Try a SERPA for an H&K usp compact. It should fit.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    Try a SERPA for an H&K usp compact. It should fit.
    Nice. I'll check it out. BTW the link takes you to a Hamilton Shutter Double Vanity

    Edited...
    Any idea if that is a serpa sportster, a CQC or ???
    Last edited by amzbrady; 03-25-2014 at 12:40 AM.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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  23. #23

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    As someone who has been taking reports of things stolen from lockers at gyms and from vehicles at gym parking lots for 22 years, I can tell you if you leave anything of value in your car or a locker at a gym, it is only a matter of time before you are what we in the biz refer to as "victim".

    When I go to the gym my gun, wallet, phone, etc are in a little "man bag" I carry with me and set between my feet while on the equipment. Only thing in the locker is clothing. After having a vehicle break in where they missed the gun, I decided never to leave one in the car agin if there was any other option available.

    On another note, while Lynnwood certainly will never be confused with say, White Center or Skyway, it still has plenty of crime. Maybe not murders, but realistically few people are at risk for that given that most (90+%) of murder victims have a relationship with their killer and it is not random.

    a little time with google and you will see a fair amount of assaults, robberies, and larcenies (not to mention rapes) happen in the little Mayberry you call Lynnwood. On the bright side, crime there has been trending down over the past eight years or so.

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