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Thread: Threatened with Trespass from the DMV

  1. #1
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    Threatened with Trespass from the DMV

    I wish I had, at least an audio recording of the event. Lesson learned.

    So my story goes ... Saturday morning I show up to the DMV, on Galletti, at about 8:30. I wait in a short info line and get my #. Then I made my way into the coffee shop and ordered a tasty spiced chai. I then proceeded to sit patiently for about an hour when I thought I heard my # get called. So I walked up to the window but found out it was not my #. As I turn to walk back to the seating area the guy working the window next door said something to the effect of, 'hay hang out here for a minute.' I just replied, "no I have a ways to go still" (motioned towards my ticket) and walked back to the seating area. I was sitting there for about 5-10 minutes when the same guy walked up to me and said, 'here come on.' I say, "are you sure? I've got a while to go" (holding up my ticket). He just says, "ya it's fine, come this way." He then escorts me to the security guard.

    The security guard (I asked his name but he would not tell me.) Began telling me that weapons are not allowed in the building and there are signs in the door that say so. I replied to that by informing him the sign in the door refers to concealed weapons only. He strongly disagreed with that and said no weapons at all, because they don't know me or know who I am. To which I basically replied than none of that matters. The security guard then told me I need to go put it in my vehicle. I told him I can't secure a firearm in my vehicle, it is a jeep without doors. He then offered to let me put it in his locker in the back. I asked him why he would possibly want me to have to handle my firearm for no reason, in public, while it is already safely secured in its holster? He didn't really respond right away. But then he said if I didn't leave that he would trespass me. I immediately asked, "your going to trespass me from a public building I'm required to do business in?" So I asked to speak to a supervisor and he walked me over to the counter and the Saturday supervisor listened to my explanation of the situation and how the law works and why they have the "new" signs on the doors that correctly state no concealed weapons. I then asked, "so what are we going to do, the right thing, or...(motioned towards security guard)...? The supervisor said, "I'm gona go with him on this one." (Motioning towards the security guard) I couldn't believe it, actually I could but ... I couldn't believe it.

    So now the security guard is escorting my out as I am telling him, you are wrong, I can't believe you don't know the rules, etc. (I was definitely more boisterous than I needed to be. Wish I could take that part back but....) Once we were out on the front steps he said I needed to step farther away from the building or he was going to trespass me. At that point all I could say was, "You know what? I'll just call the police. (I never, have, needed to, wanted to and always try to avoid any calling of police. Or any other emergency services for that matter) Do you know the non-emergency #?", I asked. And he said No, That I would probably have to look it up on the web or something. I just dialed 911 and asked for the non-emergency #. 911 dispatch was very polite about it.
    Police dispatch however asked me what the situation was. I explained the basic situation and she said the security guard can trespass me from private property. I told her she was correct but the DMV is public property, not private and I Must conduct business here. Then she said, "O.... um... well... if the security guard says you need to leave, then you need to leave. I'm not sending a unit for that."
    So frustrating!
    I went and secured my firearm in a safe location and came back in. Like I said, I Had to be there that day. I was in a pretty ****** mood at this point but managed to strike up a pretty good conversation concerning entertaining redneck activities with someone else so fortunate as to be at the DMV on a beautiful Saturday morning. It was packed too. About 10 minutes in the security guard approached me and said, "if you follow me we can get you expedited through." With an, ok thanks, I followed him to a window where he asked where I put my gun. I told him it was none of his business. He asked twice more and twice more I told him it was none if his business. I also told him once again he dosent understand the law and I told him I will personally deliver him and his supervisor a copy of the DMV's 2011 internal letter explaining the signage change and the rules employees must abide by.
    I was then helped with what I needed. While I was being helped I could see the supervisor, security guard and complaining clerk were having what looked like a serious chat.
    Before I left I asked the Saturday supervisor for the head supervisor's contact information. She politely gave me the contact info for the field services manager. The clerk who had originally escorted me to the security guard was right there and asked, "is this because I had you escorted out?" I told him, "it sure is." And then I left.

    I plan on writing a shorter, more elligant version of my complaint to the Field Services Manager, sighting the 2011 letter and personally delivering a copy of the 2011 letter and a fancy tri-fold OCDO pamphlet to the security guard and the acting manager....

    Unless someone wiser and more knowledgeable than myself has a better idea or advise of any sort.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    SO MUCH FAIL!!!

    Wow; I thought they'd been trained on this. I've not heard of a DMV issue in a long time, but maybe the word isn't out throughout the whole state.

    You were 100% absolutely in the right. They failed at every level one can possibly think of. We need every OC'er in your area to immediately think of a reason why they have some legitimate business to take care of at the DMV. When was the last time you all walked in and got a free print out of your driving record?

    Now, you could have forced the security guard to trespass you. The paperwork would have hung them all. As it is, you got kicked out with no paperwork, and all we can do is write letters and try to get them to read the rules.

    Please keep us posted and do not let this drop. Thank you for asserting your rights as much as you did. They will certainly remember this issue when they get called into the principal's office about it.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Well I believe job well done. The formal complaint good idea with a copy of the DMV internal letter. I say you pushed back as hard as you could while able to get your personal business done. Question to anyone, can one be trespassed out of a State facility?
    Last edited by 28kfps; 03-17-2014 at 03:02 AM.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    ...Question to anyone, can one be trespassed out of a State facility?
    Not if you have legitimate business there, no! Hence why we are only threatened with it. Now, if you are just hanging around, loitering in the air-conditioning, maybe, I don't know.

    This is the same with the Clark County and City of Las Vegas and North Las Vegas facilities. But, since they aren't state agencies, they don't care what state laws say, and they will have the local government back them up until we finally get it addressed at the state level.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  5. #5
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    If you want, PM me with your address and I'll mail you a few of my cards if you want. A little less bulky than a pamphlet. I made these specifically for the morons in these situations.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yotetrapper View Post
    ...I plan on writing a shorter, more elligant version of my complaint to the Field Services Manager, sighting the 2011 letter and personally delivering a copy of the 2011 letter and a fancy tri-fold OCDO pamphlet to the security guard and the acting manager....

    Unless someone wiser and more knowledgeable than myself has a better idea or advise of any sort.
    I believe you mean elegant, citing and advice.

    Before sending off or delivering anything, I'd double and triple check your spelling. It will give your communications more weight.

  7. #7
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I believe you mean elegant, citing and advice.

    Before sending off or delivering anything, I'd double and triple check your spelling. It will give your communications more weight.
    Hahaha. Yes. That is exactly what I meant. Thank you. That's what I get for posting from my phone. My letter will certainly be written on the computer and spell checked.

  8. #8
    Regular Member SharpShootur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I believe you mean elegant, citing and advice.

    Before sending off or delivering anything, I'd double and triple check your spelling. It will give your communications more weight.
    yotetrapper, please ignore the troll from Ohio. Anyway, I took the liberty in finding the pamphlets for you that you can print and send along with the 2011 DMV letter as well as your letter of complaint. Also, I would recommend that you get a few cards from garand_guy and send one of them as well. The others you keep to make more copies and give to the "uneducated" persons, like the security guards for example. I would also recommend you keep one of the pamphlets on you, say folded up in your wallet, for reference. Thank you for standing for your 2nd amendment right!

    Download February, 18 2014 Version as a PDF file:
    http://armsinfo.com/nevada/NVCarryPamphlet.pdf


    Download February 18, 2014 Version as a doc file :
    http://armsinfo.com/nevada/NVCarryFebruary2014.doc

    For John-In-Reno's stylized tri-fold:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...evada+Pamphlet

  9. #9
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    Here is my rough draft

    To Troy Dillard, Director;

    I wish to bring to your attention that during the morning of Saturday, March 15, 2014 while I was seated and waiting patiently to be helped I was confronted by both an employee and the security guard of the DMV, located at 305 Galletti in Reno, for openly carrying a firearm.
    After conversing with the security guard I asked to speak with a supervisor. I had then explained to both the security guard and the acting supervisor that the signage on the door refers specifically to NRS 202.3673 concerning concealed weapons. I had also mentioned the 2011 internal letter concerning a confrontation at the Flamingo location; prompting the door signage to be changed, explaining what customers and employees are and are not allowed to do, and the file extension containing the new signage.
    I was still however asked/ordered to either comply with their (non-lawful) order or be trespassed from the public building in which I am required by the State of Nevada to do business in. Myself and others in the community would greatly appreciate it if you would, once again, address this situation with the facility's supervisors, their subordinates, and security staff.
    Attached below is a copy of the 2011 letter and a few links to information regarding Nevada's carry laws.

    Respectfully,
    Shawn Whitney

    ---------- Forwarded message ---------

    Letter from DMV,
    Message body

    Gentlemen: The below will be broadcasted to all DMV employees: “OPEN CARRY” FIREARMS AT DMV OFFICES A confrontation occurred at the Flamingo office Saturday, December 17, 2011.

    A customer attempted to enter the building while openly carrying a firearm. He was stopped by the security guard and the decision to bar him from the building was supported by a supervisor. Metro officers were on the way to the office regarding another incident and informed the security guard and supervisor that there is no law prohibiting the customer from openly carrying a firearm in a state building. The customer received an apology and expedited service.

    Contributing to the misunderstanding is that there are still signs on our doors that say “Pursuant to Nevada Revised Statutes 202.3673, no firearms are allowed in this public building.” That is wrong. NRS 202.3673 addresses concealed firearms in public buildings but does not address firearms openly carried.

    To ensure that the rights of our customers are not abridged, know that:
    1. It is not against the law to openly carry a firearm in a DMV office.
    2. According to NRS 202.3673, it is against the law to carry a concealed firearm in a DMV office unless that person:
    * 1.has written permission to do so; or
    * 2.is an employee in that building.

    You can find the correct door signs at this location:
    G:\Public Information\03. COLLATERAL\Firearm and Fire Alarm
    --Tom Jacobs Chief Public Information Officer
    ----------------------------------------

    Download February, 18 2014 Version as a PDF file:
    http://armsinfo.com/nevada/NVCarryPamphlet.pdf

    Download February 18, 2014 Version as a doc file:
    http://armsinfo.com/nevada/ NVCarryFebruary2014.doc

    For John-In-Reno's stylized tri-fold:
    http://db.tt/PjcHkA90

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Good letter. One suggestion - ask for a contact and contact phone number in case the problem repeats itself in the future.

    FYI - the link provided for corrected door signs doesn't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yotetrapper View Post
    ---------- Forwarded message ---------

    Letter from DMV,
    Message body

    Gentlemen: The below will be broadcasted to all DMV employees: “OPEN CARRY” FIREARMS AT DMV OFFICES A confrontation occurred at the Flamingo office Saturday, December 17, 2011.

    A customer attempted to enter the building while openly carrying a firearm. He was stopped by the security guard and the decision to bar him from the building was supported by a supervisor. Metro officers were on the way to the office regarding another incident and informed the security guard and supervisor that there is no law prohibiting the customer from openly carrying a firearm in a state building. The customer received an apology and expedited service.

    Contributing to the misunderstanding is that there are still signs on our doors that say “Pursuant to Nevada Revised Statutes 202.3673, no firearms are allowed in this public building.” That is wrong. NRS 202.3673 addresses concealed firearms in public buildings but does not address firearms openly carried.

    To ensure that the rights of our customers are not abridged, know that:
    1. It is not against the law to openly carry a firearm in a DMV office.
    2. According to NRS 202.3673, it is against the law to carry a concealed firearm in a DMV office unless that person:
    * 1.has written permission to do so; or
    * 2.is an employee in that building.

    You can find the correct door signs at this location:
    G:\Public Information\03. COLLATERAL\Firearm and Fire Alarm
    --Tom Jacobs Chief Public Information Officer
    ----------------------------------------
    Does anyone have a PDF copy of the above complete DMV letter?

    I sure would like to have a copy of it.
    Last edited by varminter22; 03-18-2014 at 07:54 AM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member MaxPower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Good letter. One suggestion - ask for a contact and contact phone number in case the problem repeats itself in the future.

    FYI - the link provided for corrected door signs doesn't work.
    That's because it appears to be a link to a document on the internal DMV network, not an internet link.
    Last edited by MaxPower; 03-17-2014 at 09:27 PM.

  13. #13
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    Hmm... I've open carried at that exact DMV three times at least while open carrying and I've never been escorted out. Maybe a new guy on security?

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
    That's because it appears to be a link to a document on the internal DMV network, not an internet link.
    Duh!! <slaps head>

  15. #15
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post
    Does anyone have a PDF copy of the above complete DMV letter?

    I sure would like to have a copy of it.
    Me too, for my website.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    Me too, for my website.
    I'd like a copy also. I forgot, but years ago the Washoe district attorney's office was telling me they would have liked to see such a letter.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 03-19-2014 at 12:46 PM.

  17. #17
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    I'm confident the letter, memo, or email exists.

    Someone must have a copy of it! Anyone?

    It should be dated and show letterhead or at least show originator.

  18. #18
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    Still searching but I found this thread http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ighlight=motor

    About halfway down or so Dont Tread posts with his response from DMV.

  19. #19
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post
    I'm confident the letter, memo, or email exists.

    Someone must have a copy of it! Anyone?

    It should be dated and show letterhead or at least show originator.
    Worst come to worst one could always request a copy from the DMV under a public records search.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    The only way this will get solved for good is for someone to call their bluff, be trespassed and fight the charge all the way to a state court to be overturned where ACTUAL case law becomes established. Here in Clark County, The DMV contracts their security out to Allied Barton whom staffs different people based on their available personnel. Every time an FNG gets the assignment we have to go through the whole process of reeducating them. The same thing happens when new managers take over the DMV locations.
    Nevada Campus Carry: The Movement Continues
    http://nvcampuscarry.blogspot.com

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Have you gotten any feedback from them yet, yotetrapper?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    I've been in there probably 10 times (the latest being about a month and a half ago). I ALWAYS go in OCing, and only had a problem the first time.

    Amusingly, I usually get expedited service, and a couple of times have had the security guys watching me like a hawk. I feel so SAFE!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post
    Does anyone have a PDF copy of the above complete DMV letter?

    I sure would like to have a copy of it.
    I have the letter, complete with the sign attached, as it was sent to me. If you want a copy, email a request to weezkat@yahoo.com

  24. #24
    Regular Member z28power's Avatar
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    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    I have the letter, complete with the sign attached, as it was sent to me. If you want a copy, email a request to weezkat@yahoo.com
    Thanks for the email. I went ahead and removed the email addresses of non-dmv employees and generated a PDF. Here's the download link:

    https://db.tt/zhzs6EQc

    DON'T TREAD ON ME - if you don't want it published in this way, please just let me know and I"ll remove it.
    Thanks!
    Last edited by z28power; 03-26-2014 at 01:53 PM.

  25. #25
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    You kept too much on that document........
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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