Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: OC on Indian Land???

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    44

    OC on Indian Land???

    What are the technicalities in nevada about carrying on Native American land? I've heard mixed responses.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    It is legal for state laws.

    But, Indians run the reservations. They can kick "white people" off any time they want. So, if they don't like OC, there's nothing you can do about it but maintain a low profile.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    It is legal for state laws.

    But, Indians run the reservations. They can kick "white people" off any time they want. So, if they don't like OC, there's nothing you can do about it but maintain a low profile.
    Ok just because I've heard of public places like walmart being on Indian land. Not walmart specifically but the one case it was said that the walmart was on Indian land. But as long as I don't go into a reservation it should be fine?

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Castleninja View Post
    Ok just because I've heard of public places like walmart being on Indian land. Not walmart specifically but the one case it was said that the walmart was on Indian land. But as long as I don't go into a reservation it should be fine?
    Wal-Mart won't care, but a tribal cop might still care and can still kick you off the reservation, even if that means kicking you out of Wal-Mart to do it.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Wal-Mart won't care, but a tribal cop might still care and can still kick you off the reservation, even if that means kicking you out of Wal-Mart to do it.
    But all that can really happen is he asked me to leave. No criminal charge cam be filed unless I'm trespassed. Correct?

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    Quote Originally Posted by Castleninja View Post
    But all that can really happen is he asked me to leave. No criminal charge cam be filed unless I'm trespassed. Correct?
    No. You may beat the rap (the hypothetical charge) but you will not beat the ride (the extra-legal harassment). You may be arrested, cuffed and stuffed, for felonious mopery with intent to gawp, and released 24 hours later - with no recourse to a sovereign 'nation'.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    I don't know where you are from, but I seriously doubt that will happen in NV. They can only enforce state laws on non-Indians. And I've not heard of any abuses here.

    Yes, ANYTHING can happen ANYWHERE, though.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-17-2014 at 11:47 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Castleninja View Post
    But all that can really happen is he asked me to leave. No criminal charge cam be filed unless I'm trespassed. Correct?
    Correct.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I don't know where you are from, but I seriously doubt that will happen in NV. They can only enforce state laws on non-Indians. And I've not heard of any abuses here.

    Yes, ANYTHING can happen ANYWHERE, though.
    We moved here from California. That should explain a lot haha

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Fallon, NV
    Posts
    577
    There is a Walmart on the Paiute Shoshone Indian Colony in Reno. Tribal police do frequent there. I don't think anybody, confronted about open carry, has been arrested. People have been asked to leave. Then it's the old trespass thing, just like private property. But, as mentioned, it depends on the situation. If you push the issue, and the tribal police push back, it theoretically could end up with you in the back seat, taking a ride. I wouldn't count on it though.

    I travel on the reservations, all over the state. I always comply with the state laws. Never had an issue. It's not something I would be overly concerned with.
    Hoka hey

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sparks, NV, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    They can only enforce state laws on non-Indians. And I've not heard of any abuses here.

    Yes, ANYTHING can happen ANYWHERE, though.
    I've seen that concept pop up more than a few times, but I know nothing of the background or history on it. Can you elaborate?

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Not sure how to do to that. I'd be looking for something that may not exist, as they probably don't put "lack-of-authority" in writing.

    The tribe has no authority over non-Indians, so they can't use any Indian laws against you.

    Most, if not all, of the tribal police will also be state-sworn LEO's though. Which means they can enforce any state laws against anyone in the state.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  13. #13
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,597
    Would think they'd take a dim view of OC in the casinos….
    Saloons might be ok - you'd probably have to pay for the holes you shot in the roof...
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    Would think they'd take a dim view of OC in the casinos….
    Saloons might be ok - you'd probably have to pay for the holes you shot in the roof...
    On Indian reservations, you are probably right.

    But unlike Texas, we can still carry in all bars, whether they have signs or not, and there are many bars which are perfectly fine with OC. And unlike Texas, we can still enjoy a proper bar beverage while doing so. Haven't been any holes anywhere yet.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sparks, NV, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Not sure how to do to that. I'd be looking for something that may not exist, as they probably don't put "lack-of-authority" in writing.

    The tribe has no authority over non-Indians, so they can't use any Indian laws against you.

    Most, if not all, of the tribal police will also be state-sworn LEO's though. Which means they can enforce any state laws against anyone in the state.

    So does that mean I shouldn't have to buy a "day use permit" from the Pyramid Lake Tribe up here when I go to recreate on Pyramid Lake? http://plpt.nsn.us/rangers/htmls/permits.html

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Las Vegas NV, ,
    Posts
    1,763
    Quote Originally Posted by jfrey123 View Post
    So does that mean I shouldn't have to buy a "day use permit" from the Pyramid Lake Tribe up here when I go to recreate on Pyramid Lake? http://plpt.nsn.us/rangers/htmls/permits.html
    Well I think what Mac meant is the tribe cant fine you etc. That they would hand it over to the correct state or county or city dept that does have jurisdiction over us. Here is a interesting page on that website though. http://plpt.nsn.us/judicial/index.html

    Quote"The Tribal Court is dedicated to promoting the health safety, welfare and peace of the people of the Pyramid Lake Paiute Reservation by enforcing the laws governing the conduct of members and non-members within the exterior boundaries of the Reservation."

  17. #17

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by jfrey123 View Post
    So does that mean I shouldn't have to buy a "day use permit" from the Pyramid Lake Tribe up here when I go to recreate on Pyramid Lake? http://plpt.nsn.us/rangers/htmls/permits.html
    Isn't that permit their permission for you to use their land?

    I'm unsure how you could claim not needing their permission.

    Wouldn't it be a trespassing issue if you refused to leave? They can arrest/cite for trespassing, per enforcement of state law.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-24-2014 at 02:12 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sparks, NV, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Isn't that permit their permission for you to use their land?

    I'm unsure how you could claim not needing their permission.

    Wouldn't it be a trespassing issue if you refused to leave? They can arrest/cite for trespassing, per enforcement of state law.
    This is where Indian cop things confuse me. Indian cops are not recognized as peace officers under NRS (http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-289.html), and Indian land is sovereign (which is why reservations in CA can allow casinos but the rest of the state prohibits them). So if they can't prosecute me for breaking an Indian law, how they can they prosecute me for trespass under a NRS?

    There's so much gray area when it comes to these. I've read online that people think the U.S. highways going through a reservation still count as "American soil", and that you should just drive away if an Indian cop attempts to make a stop. "It's when you pull over they getcha, because then you're off the highway and you're on their land..." type mentality. I think it was this very website that someone suggested that years ago... That seems to be supported by the link someone posted above your reply "Tribal courts no longer have criminal jurisdiction over non-Indians, unless Congress delegates such power to them. Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian Tribe, 435 U.S. 191 (1978)."

    I promise I'm not trolling or arguing for the sake of wasting bandwidth... I've always been a little gray area on this and figured this is a good time to clear it up.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by jfrey123 View Post
    This is where Indian cop things confuse me. Indian cops are not recognized as peace officers under NRS (http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-289.html), and Indian land is sovereign (which is why reservations in CA can allow casinos but the rest of the state prohibits them). So if they can't prosecute me for breaking an Indian law, how they can they prosecute me for trespass under a NRS?...
    I do believe many, if not most, tribal police officers will ALSO be state-sworn, POST-certified, LEO's.

    I would guess that the Indians can also have their own cops who are not such, and that is what the statute would refer to. But if state-sworn LEO they can enforce state laws anywhere in the state, of course.

    Do you know the more specific statute you are reading?

    It is correct that a Tribal COURT would have no authority. I've received speeding tickets (violation of NRS) from Tribal police on the Interstate. The appearance was for a Clark County municipal court.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-25-2014 at 06:40 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    City? Who wants to live in a CITY?, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    1,196
    Quote Originally Posted by jfrey123 View Post
    This is where Indian cop things confuse me. Indian cops are not recognized as peace officers under NRS (http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-289.html), and Indian land is sovereign (which is why reservations in CA can allow casinos but the rest of the state prohibits them). So if they can't prosecute me for breaking an Indian law, how they can they prosecute me for trespass under a NRS?
    Because the State and the Res have a Memorandum of Understanding which says that a criminal complaint or a public safety activity by one is actionable by the other, and they have a Mutual Aid Pact saying that they will provide support for each other (within certain limits). The State (or county) is not REQUIRED to act, but they need cooperation by the Res more often than the Res needs theirs, so you can pretty much expect the MOU and MAP to be supported.

    BTW, since the issue was mentioned in another post, roads and highways on Res land are within the jurisdiction of the Tribal authorities, even if they have county or state route designations. Tribal police are an additional layer of enforcement, and they don't have to get you off the pavement onto "their" land.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •