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Thread: Kansas District Court Judge Melgren rules states can demand proof of citizenship

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    Kansas District Court Judge Melgren rules states can demand proof of citizenship

    "Judge Eric F. Melgren ruled that the EAC, which Congress created in the wake of the 2000 Florida voting fiasco, cannot refuse to include Arizona’s or Kansas’s demands that voters prove their citizenship.

    “The EAC’s nondiscretionary duty is to perform the ministerial function of updating the instructions to reflect each state’s laws,” Judge Melgren ruled in a decision out of Kansas. “The court orders the EAC to add the language requested by Arizona and Kansas to the state-specific instructions of the federal mail voter registration form immediately.”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...enship-voters/

    The ruling - Civil Case No. 13-4095 Kobach et al v. United States Election Assistance
    https://ecf.ksd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin...2013cv4095-157
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Dem Dems won't like this ....

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    If the act of voting, or the political machine which claims to derive its authority from the process, is to have any justification whatsoever, that process must be available to all those who are subject to the resulting laws. By what authority does government (or do we) declare that an individual is a "noncitizen" and therefore may be jailed for nonaggressive offenses without having even a symbolic say in the process?

    Unfortunately, this issue (both sides) represents nothing more than two parties jockeying for a modification of the law they believe will enhance their ability to win elections.

    So, if I support this crap, I'm supporting the power of the GOP to overtax me while pretending they don't, to interfere with medical (marijuana) and personal (marriage) freedom, etc etc etc.

    If I oppose this crap, I'm supporting the power of the democrats to overtax me while patting themselves on the back for doing so, and to interfere with my medical (insurance) and personal (firearms) freedom, etc etc etc.

    Sorry if I can't get excited over "victory". This merely reminds me how fundamentally morally bankrupt government (even a "representative" one) truly is.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-20-2014 at 10:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    If the act of voting, or the political machine which claims to derive its authority from the process, is to have any justification whatsoever, that process must be available to all those who are subject to the resulting laws. By what authority does government (or do we) declare that an individual is a "noncitizen" and therefore may be jailed for nonaggressive offenses without having even a symbolic say in the process?

    Unfortunately, this issue (both sides) represents nothing more than two parties jockeying for a modification of the law they believe will enhance their ability to win elections.

    So, if I support this crap, I'm supporting to power of the GOP to overtax me while pretending they don't, to interfere with medical (marijuana) and personal (marriage) freedom, etc etc etc.

    If I oppose this crap, I'm supporting the power of the democrats to overtax me while patting themselves on the back for doing so, and to interfere with my medical (insurance) and personal (firearms) freedom, etc etc etc.

    Sorry if I can't get excited over "victory". This merely reminds me how fundamentally morally bankrupt government (even a "representative" one) truly is.
    Of course the illegal alien lover has to chime in.

    By your logic we should let 1 billion Chinese vote because our monetary policies effect them.

    We should let all Iraqi and Pakistani and Talibans vote because our terrorism laws effect them.

    Why don't you just admit you want all of your illegal alien chimy changas to over take America and continue to turn it into the cesspool that is Mexico and Central America.

    Those illegals have done a great job with California and Mexico I can see why you love them so much.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    /snip
    reported
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    By your logic we should let 1 billion Chinese vote because our monetary policies effect them.
    Oh, I missed the part where US monetary policy regarding China was to arbitrarily jail their citizens.

    We should let all Iraqi and Pakistani and Talibans vote because our terrorism laws effect them.
    Or, maybe we should stop using government to aggress against them.

    ETA: Actual terrorist are aggressors, and one may ignore the consent of an aggressor in self-defense (even mutual self-defense).

    Why don't you just admit you want all of your illegal alien chimy changas to over take America and continue to turn it into the cesspool that is Mexico and Central America.
    Why don't you just admit you're a racist troll, and always have been?



    Those illegals have done a great job with California and Mexico I can see why you love them so much.
    I might agree that the overwhelming majority of California legislators (who bear full responsibility for ruining the state) are "illegals", but it would be inaccurate to add "aliens" afterwards.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-20-2014 at 10:51 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Voting, IMHO, is like giving someone the keys to my government. If you want to drive my government, you verify your Citizenship. No Citizenship, no bloody ballot. I do not want every ilegal to have access to the ballot box. You want to participate in an election? Go through the bloody process and become a Citizen. If you choose, if YOU CHOOSE to not participate, you can do that too.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Voting, IMHO, is like giving someone the keys to my government. If you want to drive my government, you verify your Citizenship. No Citizenship, no bloody ballot. I do not want every ilegal to have access to the ballot box. You want to participate in an election? Go through the bloody process and become a Citizen. If you choose, if YOU CHOOSE to not participate, you can do that too.
    By what right do you govern me? I have never committed aggression against you.

    I can certainly understand how folks would oppose a bunch of foreigners coming here to govern them. What I can't do is reconcile that with having a government at all.

    How does it not ultimately boil down to "popular will", i.e. might makes right? What makes your desire to govern them just, but the inverse unjust?

    I'll opine in advance that accident of birth makes for a remarkably poor justification in the realm of rights and justice.

    I cannot consider this topic without being reminded all over again how government is nothing more than one group of people imposing their will on another.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-20-2014 at 11:32 AM.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    By what right do you govern me? I have never committed aggression against you.
    Govern yourself. Go vote. If you don't vote then YOU gave me the right to "govern" you.

    If I vote for a person who wants to tax you and you cry that I'm governing you, then vote a person in who wants to drop taxes.

    To step aside and cry foul is unproductive. To say the least.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate. - Thomas Jefferson
    Hmm...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Govern yourself. Go vote. If you don't vote then YOU gave me the right to "govern" you.
    I did no such thing. You're lying about my actions, words, intent and consent. I insist that you recant.

    If I vote for a person who wants to tax you and you cry that I'm governing you, then vote a person in who wants to drop taxes.

    To step aside and cry foul is unproductive. To say the least.
    As it happens, I do vote. I consider it a form of self-defense, for the reason you articulate. That doesn't stop jerks like you from stealing my property and threatening me with imprisonment for doing nothing wrong. Voting is about as good as a rape victim asking her attacker to "stop".

    Like the rape victim, I'll register my dissent for the record, but we all know exactly how much good it'll do me.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-20-2014 at 11:41 AM.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate. - Thomas Jefferson

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Hmm...
    That remark is incredibly apropos (more than you intended, perhaps?). Jefferson lived in a time when a majority of those subject to the law had no say it in (women, slaves, folks who didn't own property, etc.). In short, they could not participate.

    And here we are today discussing the subjugation by law of those who are also denied participation, and yet are not aggressive.

    Ironic, even.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-20-2014 at 11:39 AM.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I did no such thing. You're lying about my actions, words, intent and consent. I insist that you recant.



    As it happens, I do vote. I consider it a form of self-defense, for the reason you articulate. That doesn't stop jerks like you from stealing my property and threatening me with imprisonment for doing nothing wrong. Voting is about as good as a rape victim asking her attacker to "stop".

    Like the rape victim, I'll register my dissent for the record, but we all know exactly how much good it'll do me.
    Insist away. I'll wait patiently.

    Didn't even say anything about your "actions words intent and consent". Nice little rhyme by the way.

    I said IF you don't vote. You say you do. So then it doesn't apply to you. That's the thing about those IF words. You use them when your not sure of a persons "actions words intent and consent" and you don't want to assign such to them. You throw out the premise and say IF it applies to you then this..... IF it doesn't then that..... tracking?

    If you vote for the very reason I articulate would that seem we are in agreement on something? Shocker!

    I demand you recant your allegation I'm a jerk a thief and that I make such threats to imprison you for doing nothing wrong! I made no such actions words intent or consent! :-)

    On a serious note, easy the name calling. You can at least attempt to be civil. Note the word CAN.... it means you can choose not to. So no I'm not assigning actions words intent or consent to thee.
    .


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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    On a serious note, easy the name calling. You can at least attempt to be civil. Note the word CAN….
    You have repeatedly lied about the things I've said and done. And you want me to be civil?

    Sit and spin.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    You have repeatedly lied about the things I've said and done. And you want me to be civil?

    Sit and spin.
    Good idea. Ignore everything else I post and make more allegations....

    Tough to "repeatedly lie" if I've made 3 posts now in this thread and none had any "lies". 1st was telling you to basically vote or quit complaining. You respond with outrage and explain you do vote. 2nd was me saying sounds good we agree on the purpose for voting and no need for outrage.

    I demand you recant such rancid allegations! :-)

    And sit and spin ay. That's reaaalll appropriate. Along with adult like and civil. Doing a bang up job today my friend.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I just want to add that for one to declare and insist another's consent is tantamount to denying the possibility of rape.

    My consent is mine to give or withhold.

    Folks might intend to argue that my consent is irrelevant in certain circumstances, but to declare it exists when it does not is to utterly and permanently devalue the concept of consent. It's also a bald-faced lie.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    YOU gave me the right to "govern" you.
    You lie, and then you lie about lying.

    You might have intended to say that you assumed the "right" to govern me, while ignoring my protestations.

    But that's not what you said. You made a specific, concrete allegation about my taking certain actions ("YOU gave me…").

    I did not give. You took. To say otherwise is to lie.

    Bang up job, sir.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-20-2014 at 12:20 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Govern yourself. Go vote. If you don't vote then YOU gave me the right to "govern" you.

    If I vote for a person who wants to tax you and you cry that I'm governing you, then vote a person in who wants to drop taxes.

    To step aside and cry foul is unproductive. To say the least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    You lie, and then you lie about lying.

    Bang up job, sir.
    Lol this is good.

    I appreciate you finally attempting to back up your "lie" claim.

    What I don't appreciate is your lame cutting the quote to fit your needs. I've helped you out putting the quote back in context.

    I expected better my friend....



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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Lol this is good.

    I appreciate you finally attempting to back up your "lie" claim.

    What I don't appreciate is your lame cutting the quote to fit your needs. I've helped you out putting the quote back in context.

    I expected better my friend....
    I removed no context of significance.

    I apologize for my repeated habit of posting incompletely, and then finishing in an edit. I have in fact defended my allegation, such that the context is irrelevant. The words I selected are sufficient to render your statement a lie. See above.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    That remark is incredibly apropos (more than you intended, perhaps?). Jefferson lived in a time when a majority of those subject to the law had no say it in (women, slaves, folks who didn't own property, etc.). In short, they could not participate.

    And here we are today discussing the subjugation by law of those who are also denied participation, and yet are not aggressive.

    Ironic, even.
    TJ's words transcend what he knew, or desired, at the time. Anyway, a great many, back then, did not vote for nothing more complicated than geography. By the time they knew of the/a vote it likely was too late to vote, next time perhaps. But, back in those days the vote, whatever it was, had little to no impact on many citizens outside of "large urban" areas.

    Today? No excuses, vote or not.....meh. I do vote, just like I play the lottery, "ya can't win if ya don't play." My vote tends to go to those who "promise" (anyway) to be less aggressive to my fellow citizens.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    To marshaul: What follows is not a personal attack, it is simply my observations based on what has been typed. That being said... I defended you against Onus and the rude and belligerent statements he made. I stand by my disapproval of his statements. However, the way you have handled yourself in this thread since his post have made me rethink my desire to provide any further support for you. As has been noted by Primus, you have purposefully chopped all to hell what he has typed in this thread in order to create "quotes" that suit you while at the same time totally ignoring the purpose, intent and content of his statements. As of now, I have little to no interest in anything you have to say regarding this topic. Have a nice day.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Illegal Aliens can't vote.

    Requiring Voter ID is catching on.

    Now, if we can just keep the cemeteries locked up on election day so that the dead can't vote .....

    ... then the Democrats will never win another election!
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  23. #23
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Illegal Aliens can't vote.

    Requiring Voter ID is catching on.

    Now, if we can just keep the cemeteries locked up on election day so that the dead can't vote .....

    ... then the Democrats will never win another election!
    But its how the dead would've voted right? Lol

    Personally I think voter ID is a good thing. Hopefully of does continue to catch on and spread.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    To step aside and cry foul is unproductive. To say the least.


    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Illegal Aliens can't (should not be able to) vote.
    Requiring Voter ID is catching on.

    Now, if we can just keep the cemeteries locked up on election day so that the dead can't vote .....

    This is Truth!
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    hey, lets all go live at marshauls house. I'm sure he would welcome all of us living at his house.

    you got any daughters ?

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