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Thread: 80 MPH signed into law by Idaho Governer--SWEET!

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    80 MPH signed into law by Idaho Governer--SWEET!

    I love living in Idaho. I told my Dad on the phone that the difference between Idaho and Southern California where he lives is this. When the speed limit changes to 80mph on the interstate outside of the Boise city limits I will be able to set the cruise control at 85mph, talk on my cell phone (legal) and carry a handgun openly while driving. I then told him in California he would get pulled over for 85mph most likely and also would be pulled over for using a cell phone while driving. Then when the LEO found out he was open carrying, he would be pulled from the drivers seat and beaten all the while the police would be saying "Stop resisting sir". Yep, Idaho is Awesome!

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I love how folks who don't obey speed limits are excited that they exist.

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I love how folks who don't obey speed limits are excited that they exist.
    I'm a Libertarian and I would like to see the speed limit removed on the interstate, but any progress in increasing the limit is moving the right direction. My license plate frame on my VW Golf says "Where's the Autobahn".

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    A VW Golf can go 85? I need proof on that score.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    I'm a Libertarian and I would like to see the speed limit removed on the interstate, but any progress in increasing the limit is moving the right direction. My license plate frame on my VW Golf says "Where's the Autobahn".
    Haha, I figured. I'm just in a teasing mood.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Spent 6 years in the military in Germany...miss the autobahns.

    I picked up my vehicle in Washington and got pulled over in Oregon....dam 65mph in the middle of no where anyway. Didn't get a ticket but was reminded it wasn't the autobahn. German plates and all.....

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    A VW Golf can go 85? I need proof on that score.
    My '88 GTi topped out at 207kph (which translated to 129mph) according to my stopwatch and the kilometer markers in Germany. But it had 123 horsepower, 16v motor.

    Here's a Diesel Golf doing about a buck-twenny (121 mph.)
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 03-20-2014 at 03:49 PM.

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    the speed limit is 3 *10^8 meters per second dudes !

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    i have verified that my '03 VW Jetta Wagen (ALH) TDI (66 kW/90 Hp) diesel's maximum governed speed is ~124 mph indicated.

    It has produced one or two tanks of fuel worth 50+ mpg every year. ATM I am in Florida on snow tires and saw 49 mpg (fill up volume/fill up miles) coming down at ~80 mph. When I was playing with GPS, the indicated speeds were little different.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 03-20-2014 at 04:12 PM.
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    I went to Montana in a friends 85 diesel golf last fall, the fuel gage didn't work, the speedometer and the dash lights didn't work. Muffler was loud windshield cracked and was a real rust bucket. Heater only had one setting, high wheel bearing was howling.

    It would pop out of 5th going up a hill use a GPS for speed and mileage he said we need to fill up when we get to so many miles or that town.

    Two adult men , one 80lb lab and hunting gear he said he wanted to take because of the fuel mileage. I did the math with diesel higher then gas we could have drove my Buick century had good heat, lights, clear windshield and a lot more room for only 20 dollars more.

    He kept on telling the whole why out and back about the people he knew on the way that could come and get us it the car broke down.

    I told him there is two kind of cars you take on trips ones you carry the title for and ones you don't. He said the title is in the glove box.

    I haven't taken a trip like that for 40 plus years it was and adventure for sure next time we'll take my vehicle.

    But on the bright side we killed pheasants and had a good time.
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    Regular Member LeMat's Avatar
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    We did that in Montana back in the 90's. Except there was no numerical limit. "Safe and prudent" or sumsuch.

    When enough idiots going 100mph died or killed others, they took it away.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    I'm a Libertarian and I would like to be able to put the entire motoring public in danger for my own entertainment and convienenceon the interstate, but any progress in increasing the limit is moving the right direction. My license plate frame on my VW Golf says "Where's the Autobahn".
    There fixed it for you
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMat View Post
    We did that in Montana back in the 90's. Except there was no numerical limit. "Safe and prudent" or sumsuch.

    When enough idiots going 100mph died or killed others, they took it away.
    What happened was someone bought a new sports car and was driving it at 95 mph on Montana 200 near St Regis I believe and if you know that highway (I drive it every summer) you know it's two lane highway that sometimes has no shoulder. So a Montana Trooper wrote him up and at trial the driver argued that the reasonable and prudent speed violated his constitutional right to due process and that he hadn't way of knowing what conduct was illegal. So the montana legislature adopted a numerical speed limit.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    There fixed it for you
    EMN, not for the first time you're full of it.

    There have been numerous studies (performed by traffic engineers, no less) which strongly suggest that speed limits on highways actually increase accident rates. This effect is significant enough that, while those accidents which occur are more likely to be fatal, the net result of eliminating speed limits on highways is an overall reduction of fatalities.

    The main reasons are traffic courtesy and awareness. Folks changing into the right lane at high speed to pass on the right (and then back) are far more dangerous than slower traffic moving over. On highways with no speed limits, it's never OK to drive slow in the left lane. As soon as you add a number, half the morons think they're somehow improving traffic safety by driving the speed limit in the left lane. Speed limits on the highway encourage complacency in half of drivers, where it is already a significant danger, and inspire road rage in a great many more. Not a good combination.

    Finally, speed limits are not required to stop reckless drivers (whether or not speed is a contributing factor to their recklessness).

    For these reasons, somehow a few first world countries still maintain major highways without speed limits. Fancy that.

    None of this applies to, say, residential streets.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-25-2014 at 01:04 PM.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    EMN, not for the first time you're full of it.

    There have been numerous studies (performed by traffic engineers, no less) which strongly suggest that speed limits on highways actually increase accident rates. This effect is significant enough that, while those accidents which occur are more likely to be fatal, the net result of eliminating speed limits on highways is an overall reduction of fatalities.

    The main reasons are traffic courtesy and awareness. Folks changing into the right lane at high speed to pass on the right (and then back) are far more dangerous than slower traffic moving over. On highways with no speed limits, it's never OK to drive slow in the left lane. As soon as you add a number, half the morons think they're somehow improving traffic safety by driving the speed limit in the left lane. Speed limits on the highway encourage complacency in half of drivers, where it is already a significant danger, and inspire road rage in a great many more. Not a good combination.

    None of this applies to, say, residential streets.
    +1

    We refer to people doing 65 in the left lane as "Hall Monitors"....

    Idaho currently has the 75 MPH for cars but Semi-Trucks can only do 65MPH....this causes a lot of dangerous issues. You get one truck doing 64 and one that is going to pass him doing 65. It takes 5-6 miles for one semi to pass another blocking both lanes. This just pisses off all the cars on the road and brings out road rage and everyone starts to get more agressive. Then they add in the campers and u-hauls.....fun fun fun.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    What happened was someone bought a new sports car and was driving it at 95 mph on Montana 200 near St Regis I believe and if you know that highway (I drive it every summer) you know it's two lane highway that sometimes has no shoulder. So a Montana Trooper wrote him up and at trial the driver argued that the reasonable and prudent speed violated his constitutional right to due process and that he hadn't way of knowing what conduct was illegal. So the montana legislature adopted a numerical speed limit.
    And yet we have numerous laws which depend on the judgment of a reasonable person, such as laws against reckless handling/discharge of a firearm, etc.

    As for the case in question, it's no wonder they felt like they couldn't get a conviction: good luck convincing a jury of reasonable folks that 95 is never a safe speed. What you describe is not a safety-minded response to an untenable situation (as you seem to wish), but rather a case of the legislature bowing to the whims of a police lobby who can't stand the thought of having their judgment questioned.

    Arbitrary limits on highways are a solution in search of a problem.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Spent 6 years in the military in Germany...miss the autobahns......
    I used to have to fly to the FRG each spring to do an inspection. I flew into Frankfort and hit the rental kiosk. They would let me turn in my voucher for an econo car and spring the additional bucks to rent a 911. Then I drove to Heidelburg to my final destination. What a great drive those roads are.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    EMN, not for the first time you're full of it.

    somehow a few first world countries still maintain major highways without speed limits. Fancy that.
    EMN your education is impressive, your practical knowledge is a bit lacking. Some of us have actually lived in places (like here in the USA) where this was common. No great number of wrecks. You are sounding like you want to mommy us and there may be some here who do not appreciate that bloomburg style of leadership.

    EMN..... think of it this way....Knowledge is knowing the fire will burn.....Wisdom is remembering the blister.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 03-25-2014 at 01:23 PM. Reason: shpelink
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMat View Post
    We did that in Montana back in the 90's. Except there was no numerical limit. "Safe and prudent" or sumsuch.

    When enough idiots going 100mph died or killed others, they took it away.
    I won a case in KY for same reason ... cop was pissed ... 100 MPH on I40 ... zoom zoom zoom

    only would have killed myself (no one else on the road)
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 03-25-2014 at 02:00 PM.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    And yet we have numerous laws which depend on the judgment of a reasonable person, such as laws against reckless handling/discharge of a firearm, etc.

    As for the case in question, it's no wonder they felt like they couldn't get a conviction: good luck convincing a jury of reasonable folks that 95 is never a safe speed. What you describe is not a safety-minded response to an untenable situation (as you seem to wish), but rather a case of the legislature bowing to the whims of a police lobby who can't stand the thought of having their judgment questioned.

    Arbitrary limits on highways are a solution in search of a problem.
    No, the montana Supreme Court invalidated the drivers ticket on due process grounds after a trial found him guilty because the officer and then the state attorney general admitted they had no opinion as to what the safe speed was.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    +1

    We refer to people doing 65 in the left lane as "Hall Monitors"....

    Idaho currently has the 75 MPH for cars but Semi-Trucks can only do 65MPH....this causes a lot of dangerous issues. You get one truck doing 64 and one that is going to pass him doing 65. It takes 5-6 miles for one semi to pass another blocking both lanes. This just pisses off all the cars on the road and brings out road rage and everyone starts to get more agressive. Then they add in the campers and u-hauls.....fun fun fun.
    So what you're saying is the semi truck driver properly using the left lane is at fault for motorists acting like children playing a game on the road ways? The commercial driving industry is far stricter regulated and pays a lot of money for the privilege to use those roads. I actually think the current CDL license requirements and restrictions should be expanded to all motor vehicles. Make road rage a crime where you automatically lose your license for a year and forfeit the vehicle to the state you used while road raging and that nonsense will end right quick. Europe has no speed limits and safe roads becuase driving isn't a right in Europe and they implement a strict and expensive regulatory scheme that no one on this thread has advocated for...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    EMN, not for the first time you're full of it.

    There have been numerous studies (performed by traffic engineers, no less) which strongly suggest that speed limits on highways actually increase accident rates. This effect is significant enough that, while those accidents which occur are more likely to be fatal, the net result of eliminating speed limits on highways is an overall reduction of fatalities.

    The main reasons are traffic courtesy and awareness. Folks changing into the right lane at high speed to pass on the right (and then back) are far more dangerous than slower traffic moving over. On highways with no speed limits, it's never OK to drive slow in the left lane. As soon as you add a number, half the morons think they're somehow improving traffic safety by driving the speed limit in the left lane. Speed limits on the highway encourage complacency in half of drivers, where it is already a significant danger, and inspire road rage in a great many more. Not a good combination.

    Finally, speed limits are not required to stop reckless drivers (whether or not speed is a contributing factor to their recklessness).

    For these reasons, somehow a few first world countries still maintain major highways without speed limits. Fancy that.

    None of this applies to, say, residential streets.
    If you're not capable of keeping calm and adjusting your speed to conditions (including other traffic) you don't belong on the highway. European countries have higher speeds, and tax fuel at 300%, require more drivers education! licenses and car registration is more expensive, penalties for traffic violations are far more severe, They also on average drive smaller lighter cars that stop faster and you're less likely to collide with a large vehicle for that reason on European roads. If you want to impose European style driver control on getting licenses then I will heartily endorse allowing the interstate to be your personal race track
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    So what you're saying is the semi truck driver properly using the left lane is at fault for motorists acting like children playing a game on the road ways? The commercial driving industry is far stricter regulated and pays a lot of money for the privilege to use those roads. I actually think the current CDL license requirements and restrictions should be expanded to all motor vehicles. Make road rage a crime where you automatically lose your license for a year and forfeit the vehicle to the state you used while road raging and that nonsense will end right quick. Europe has no speed limits and safe roads becuase driving isn't a right in Europe and they implement a strict and expensive regulatory scheme that no one on this thread has advocated for...
    You know you really need to take a chill pill and not tell me what I'm saying.....

    I didn't say what you are implying.

    As for the CDL thing I probably know more about the Idaho state CDL laws than you will ever know. My wife works for Idaho DOT and is a skills tester for the state, she is required to have a CDL, my son who is a figher fighter and bus driver (off season) has his CDL in Idaho. Please stop preaching to the choir and unless you drive the Idaho roads everyday such as me then I respectfully ask you to bite me.....

    I didn't say I got road rage I said I see it all the time.....I must have missed were driving was in the bill of rights also.


    PS I lived in England and drove there for 3 years and Germany for 6 years 7 months.......I also know how to drive in europe.....again bite me.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    You know you really need to take a chill pill and not tell me what I'm saying.....

    I didn't say what you are implying.

    As for the CDL thing I probably know more about the Idaho state CDL laws than you will ever know. My wife works for Idaho DOT and is a skills tester for the state, she is required to have a CDL, my son who is a figher fighter and bus driver (off season) has his CDL in Idaho. Please stop preaching to the choir and unless you drive the Idaho roads everyday such as me then I respectfully ask you to bite me.....

    I didn't say I got road rage I said I see it all the time.....I must have missed were driving was in the bill of rights also.


    PS I lived in England and drove there for 3 years and Germany for 6 years 7 months.......I also know how to drive in europe.....again bite me.
    Hey silly, I have a CDL as well......

    I don't think idaho is a unique reality separate from everywhere else. Trucks have a right to pass on the left as well. And most of the company trucks are governed at 63 so a higher truck speed won't contribute to any increase in safety. Forcing people to speed up is unsafe, so the only conclusion is the faster more aggressive people must be slowed down.

    Driving is seen as a right in this country because we allow any one 16 or older to get a license after attending the most basic of training courses, and we don't take licenses away when needed. Even people who have DUIs are allowed to keep their licenses for occupational purposes if they put the blower in their car. They should lose all driving privelages period for 3 years with no exceptions. Caught driving after a DUI suspension should be a felony with a mandatory 5 year prison sentence.

    I see people who can't seem to grasp the idea of giving trucks room, always someone merging next to me refusing to speed past or fall behind, or people who speed up to pass a truck once the turn signal light is on. Those should be a mandatory arrest......

    Like i said I will support increasing or eliminating speed limits once we rachet down regulation on automobile drivers. People disregard traffic rules because the worst that happens when they get caught is they get a ticket that's only 120 bucks. Look at most bad crashes and in many cases the driver has a history of disregarding traffic rules.

    The claim that there should be no regulation on speed is ludicrous, and most people who hold that view usually don't believe that anything they do should be regulated. Some such as a poster here argues the very institution of law enforcement is unconstitutional while claiming that speed limits are unnessecary becuase reckless speeders can be arrested for reckless driving. (By the people who he thinks are unconstitutional?)
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 03-25-2014 at 06:17 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    No, the montana Supreme Court invalidated the drivers ticket on due process grounds after a trial found him guilty because the officer and then the state attorney general admitted they had no opinion as to what the safe speed was.
    As I said, plenty of statutes assign criminal liability for recklessness without needing a numerical discriminant. If what you say is true, then I have little doubt that the prosecutor carefully calculated his arguments to guarantee this outcome.

    If all they had was "going fast", and they weren't prepared to prove that "fast" is unsafe, then they didn't deserve a conviction. Any prosecutor should know better than that.

    Your post about European "driver control" is just so many red herrings. For instance, you subtly imply that a not having a "300%" higher fuel tax is a sine qua non for actually driving fast. On the contrary, many Europeans drive fast, fuel costs regardless. Moreover, as this incentive applies disproportionately to the poor, one wonders what exactly you imagine is so special about rich folks that it's OK if they drive faster.

    Some countries in Europe have good drivers' education. Some do not (sort of like the States, eh?). Your comment is therefore a non sequitur as those who come from the latter are permitted to drive on any highway in the EU. It's quite erroneous to attempt to claim that everyone who uses a German autobahn is subject to German drivers' education. Not even close!

    Your argument about average vehicle size is also a red herring for a number of reasons. First, it's entirely possible to establish different classes of vehicles. The autobahns, for instance, apply speed limits to heavy vehicles and commercial trucks, etc. Secondly, you seem to imply that Europeans have no SUV-type vehicles, or full-size sedans, etc, or that these vehicles do not safely operate at high speed on the autobahn. In fact, these vehicles are common (though somewhat less so) in Europe, and they do operate safely at high speeds on the autobahn.

    As kind of a meta-point, yet again it's clear to me that you attach far too much weight to credentialism/"training", laws, regulations, etc. In truth, most system work without – if not in spite of – these things, not because of them. Experience is far more important than anything promulgated by any bureaucrat.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-25-2014 at 06:12 PM.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I didn't say I got road rage I said I see it all the time.....I must have missed were driving was in the bill of rights also.
    The constant implications that his opponents are road raging speed demons are nothing more than ad hominem attacks (albeit implied), which underline the weakness of his position.

    As it happens, I basically always drive at (or very close to) the speed limit, because I am aware of the threat constituted by being pulled over by the police. That doesn't mean I have to be thrilled with ubiquitous, arbitrary and capricious speed limits.

    Were speed limits eliminated, I would continue to exercise prudence. I imagine my speed would increase by less than 15mph in most circumstances.

    But none of this stops EMN from implying that we're all out using the "interstate [as our] personal race track".
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-25-2014 at 06:11 PM.

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