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Thread: Is this an open carry encounter or a photography encounter?

  1. #1
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    Is this an open carry encounter or a photography encounter?

    VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65OB4I8qg_I


    On 22 MAR 2014, at approximately 1410 hours, I was attempting to get footage of low flying planes, from public view, by Seattle International Airport. Also interested in some stock footage, I meandered down International Boulevard. About 3 minutes into this outing, I noticed a Port of Seattle Police (PSP) vehicle drive past me and initiate a U-turn. When the vehicle stopped at the light nearest me, to initiate another U-turn, I was pretty sure of police contact. I started rolling video.

    In this encounter, I was free to go and never detained, as PSP Officer J. Mau clearly stated. I consented to remain and have a limited dialogue. At some point, another PSP officer appeared from my left side. I did not notice him at first and I neglected to get his name. These officers were a fine representation for their department.

    What I find compelling about this particular video is: it shows what I have been saying since I decided to start filming all encounters...I will have more police contact for my camera than I ever will from open carrying my firearm (In this video, a model 23 Glock.)

    On a side note, I was uncharacteristically nervous and extremely shaky during this interaction. It had nothing to to with the PSP Officers, because they seemed pretty down to earth. I realized afterwards that I skipped breakfast and only had coffee during the day. (NOTE TO SELF: eat before I cop-watch.)

    This is my worst performance in an encounter, thus far. We live and we learn. LOL

    - Rogue Reflections -

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    As "good" as that encounter went, I still call BS that they even bothered to stop you, let alone ask you for your name or ID. There was no reason what so ever for them to even stop you.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Of course it's BS, but ....
    legally it wasn't a "stop" as no one was officially detained and legally they have as much right to engage in conversation as anyone else does. Admittedly, the guns and badges do make them more bold than the guy who just wants to sell ice cream, but we really shouldn't be prejudicial against someone merely by virtue of what they are wearing on their belts lest we be judged the same ourselves. In any case, the OP retained the right and authority to terminate the conversation on his own.

    I do wonder though, how long the officers would have wanted to continue the voluntary encounter had the OP exerted his authority by setting conditions for it to continue.

    >Rogue... definitely take a Zanax
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 03-24-2014 at 10:01 AM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The OP will not set conditions and as such the "consensual encounters" will continue. The OP desires to have these encounters.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    As "good" as that encounter went, I still call BS that they even bothered to stop you, let alone ask you for your name or ID. There was no reason what so ever for them to even stop you.
    Don't mischaracterize. Where do you see a "stop"??

    The officer made it clear that RR was free to go after RR asked the question - which I believe was the second thing RR said.

  6. #6
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    We do not know if the cop(s) would have "unlawfully stopped" the OP or not in the recording.

    The OP allow himself to be engaged by the cop(s). Based on the OP's stated goals, we may never know if the OP will ever be unlawfully stopped for lawful behavior.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Don't mischaracterize. Where do you see a "stop"??

    The officer made it clear that RR was free to go after RR asked the question - which I believe was the second thing RR said.
    Yeah.....he wasn't stopped.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Yeah.....he wasn't stopped.
    Right. He wasn't stopped. He might have been, but he wasn't.

    It's not hard for most to understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post

    >Rogue... definitely take a Zanax
    While a Xanax would probably be good, I think a simple breakfast would have been better. I noticed the same thing in Auburn. No food, a lot of coffee, and encounters like this (even the calm ones) make for an over-excited time. I almost felt like I was on crack or something.
    Just as I post positive and negative videos with police, I will post a positive or negative video about me, if there is a story to tell.

    - Rogue Reflections -

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    Excellent thought!

    [The OP allow himself to be engaged by the cop(s). Based on the OP's stated goals, we may never know if the OP will ever be unlawfully stopped for lawful behavior.[/QUOTE]

    Indeed. I agree with you. While sincerely trying to document encounters, maybe I am not doing what I should to set boundaries.

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogueReflections View Post
    Indeed. I agree with you. While sincerely trying to document encounters, maybe I am not doing what I should to set boundaries.
    I'm not requesting that you set boundaries.

    There is a famous quote here on OCDO, famous to me anyway, this esteemed member may correct me if he chooses.

    "Excuse me officer, I know you have a job to do but I do not consent to this encounter."
    Boundaries currently exist. I am requesting that you "encourage" cops to observe their boundaries. It does not matter whether that cop "contacted" you for filming, or for your OC'd firearm, he made contact because of your lawful behavior.

    I firmly believe that cops being seen, by our fellow citizens, driving by a visibly armed citizen is the best example as to the normalcy of OC and that armed citizens are not considered a threat to anyone.

    The down side - you may have little to record other than a cop driving by.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Rogue do you request the incident reports? I bet you would find some illuminating insights into the thoughts of police.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    AH!

    [Boundaries currently exist. I am requesting that you "encourage" cops to observe their boundaries. It does not matter whether that cop "contacted" you for filming, or for your OC'd firearm, he made contact because of your lawful behavior.

    I firmly believe that cops being seen, by our fellow citizens, driving by a visibly armed citizen is the best example as to the normalcy of OC and that armed citizens are not considered a threat to anyone.

    The down side - you may have little to record other than a cop driving by.[/QUOTE]

    Insightful. Thank you for that input. This is one reason I love posting these encounters...the feedback.

    - Rogue Reflections -

  14. #14
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Rogue do you request the incident reports? I bet you would find some illuminating insights into the thoughts of police.
    VG: I have not done this yet. I think it is a great idea though. Maybe I am not following through enough. I will look into this.
    Thank you!

    - Rogue Reflections -

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