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Thread: NC DoJ releases CHP instructor's personal information to a private outside concern.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    NC DoJ releases CHP instructor's personal information to a private outside concern.

    Ok, throwing this out to just provide a bit of information as well as looking for guidance on how to proceed after this blatant release of privacy information.
    I received, to my home address, a letter from a private start-up organization wanting me, as a CHP instructor, to join their group and be put into their www directory. I have attached the organization’s pamphlet as well as the letter I received.

    As of Oct 1 2013, NC statute states:
    14-415.17. Except as provided otherwise by this subsection, the list of permit holders and the information collected by the sheriff to process an application for a permit are confidential and are not a public record under G.S. 132-1. The sheriff shall make the list of permit holders and the permit information available upon request to all State and local law enforcement agencies. The State Bureau of Investigation shall make the list of permit holders and the information collected by the sheriff to process an application for a permit available to law enforcement officers and clerks of court on a statewide system.
    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...ticle_54B.html

    It seems the NC DoJ, after discussion with their attorneys, released the names and mailing addresses of all statewide CHP instructors in response to the organization's specific request. Apparently the confidentiality of personal information pertains only to permit holders yet CHP instructors are not afforded the same confidential privacy consideration under NC’s statute.

    There is no mention of how the organization is going to maintain security of the information being supplied or what they are planning on doing with the information once harvested.

    I also found it interesting the organization is also trying to encourage basic CHP holders to join their group to ‘…stay up on the changes in the law….’ No explanation on how that is going to be accomplished by the organization.

    Points I found interesting:
    1. The tenor and tone of the letter, coupled with the letterhead emblem, alludes to a state affiliation, especially since the state is the only entity having private information.
    2. The material refers to the permit as a CCH but statute uses the term CHP.
    3. The material states several times their training took 8 hours yet the statute states training shall be 8 hours plus range time!
    4. The material states on their proposed ‘instructor’s only forum’ stats will be posted to use in our classes yet the DoJ must approve an overview of CHP curriculum being taught.

    working on uploading the documents ~ standby one! oh bother!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 03-24-2014 at 06:12 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Hmmm....

    Telling another party that you have a gun either:

    A) creates a safety risk for the disclosing person

    B) does not create a safety risk

    If (A) , then disclosure to the state is included as the 2nd amendment is to protect yourself from that exact same body

    Then permits fall into the same category .. apply for one and you are basically admitting you have a gun ...

    My state has already said that they will check our "assault weapon" registry when responding to a house for anything and then take "appropriate measures" or something similar.

    So when you're outta town and you're 15 yr old kid has a party that makes too much noise they may respond with a 9 man SWAT team .... and what teenager isn't going to try to run away? BAM ! Dead kids. Just my prediction.

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    Regular Member DaveT319's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't release your info as a general CHP holder, but as an instructor. THAT info is already public info, is it not?

    While other parts of the letter might not be to your liking, the information of you being an instructor shouldn't be an issue, UNLESS the address they sent the letter to is NOT your official business address as an instructor.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveT319 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't release your info as a general CHP holder, but as an instructor. THAT info is already public info, is it not?

    While other parts of the letter might not be to your liking, the information of you being an instructor shouldn't be an issue, UNLESS the address they sent the letter to is NOT your official business address as an instructor.
    No, why would you believe the information i am a chp instructor be considered public information? to the best of my knowledge, DoJ has no public accessible database.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    No, why would you believe the information i am a chp instructor be considered public information? to the best of my knowledge, DoJ has no public accessible database.

    ipse
    Accessable databases are NOT the determination of what is a public record. I'm not going to do the work for you - you can look up NC's freedom of information laws for yourself so you will learn about the subject.

    As for your specific question - I would presume that the identification of state-certified, approved, licenses/permitted (or whatever vetting you get from NC DOJ) would be public because, among other things, the public has a right to know who DOJ is approving. Another reason would be verifying that your claim of DOJ approval/certification/whatever is current before deciding to sign up for a class with you.

    While you are rummaging around on Google or IE or Bing or whatever search engine you like to use you might want to find out how much other information about you as a CHP instructor might be public record. For instance, you business license. You do have one, don't you?

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member DaveT319's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    No, why would you believe the information i am a chp instructor be considered public information? to the best of my knowledge, DoJ has no public accessible database.

    ipse
    Is it a secret that you are an instructor? How do people know to come to you for instruction? Because it is public information. And of course the DOJ would have a database of who is certified. True, the public can't just look it up online. But they can request the info from the DOJ.

    As I said, is the address where you received the correspondence the "business" address you use for official mail as an instructor? Or did they send it to your home, which is not the same? THAT is what would make a difference. If they gave out your home address and not your "business" address (assuming they are not the same), then there's a definite problem. But on the face of it, giving out the info on how to contact licensed instructors does not seem like a violation of privacy.

    Not to me anyway.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Would think that as an instructor you are either a) a vendor to the state, or b) licensed by the state. Would expect both of these are public information and are searchable by the public.
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    No, why would you believe the information i am a chp instructor be considered public information? to the best of my knowledge, DoJ has no public accessible database.

    ipse
    I assume that you told the gov't that you are a chp instructor...correct? Then its a public record. The exemption you stated in 1st post does not exempt that record so you would need to look at a privacy exemption under common law. But given that you provided the info to the state that's going to be a stretch. Any chp instructors injured or killed ?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    So to is your home address, names of your children and their ages - jus' sayin'.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Is having a CHP a condition of being certified to be a CHP instructor?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Is having a CHP a condition of being certified to be a CHP instructor?
    actually it isn't, strange as it seems.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    the inputs have been quite informative and to acknowledge a couple of your comments:
    1. skidmark: our county does not care about issuing a 'privilege' license unless 'beer and wine sales' are involved, so no business license is required and rummaging around al gore's invention, i discovered this interesting website from usacarry though seems quite outdated. http://www.usacarry.com/directory/ca...m-instructors/

    2. davidmcbeth: the DoJ provided the singular course "laws governing Concealed handgun and use of deadly force" and the same governmental entity which 'issues' the citizens CHP documents for the sheriff's department(s) is responsible for control of and providing instructor's numbered CHP course completion documents to complete for their students at the end of the course.

    3. DavdT319: normally word of mouth from other sources, no mass advertising campaign in place.

    4. hpmatt: not a vendor, only 'certified' in the course mentioned above and other credentials affords one to be an instructor.

    upon review of the material sent, someone (one of my concerns) spent a gaggle of money on the folded glossy pamphlet as well as for the mailing costs to each instructor. and i do not know for what end?

    again, my concern centers around what occurred when WRAL last year published a web app listing specific streets of those NC citizens possessing a valid CHP and by small leap of faith showed who has firearms on the streets.

    this release of information now identifies my isolated, nondescript, unmarked facility as something associated with firearms etc. which, to protect equipment inside, i must now fortify to protect the contents from possible malicious trespass and theft.

    again thanks for the input...seems i have to work through the GA system to get statutes changed like was done after the WRAL mentality last year.

    finally, everyone is right, this came to light and i have know way of knowing who else has requested this type of information and if the harvest was done for someone's profit or their nefarious and insidious schemes!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Of course the government should be in business of "licensing" rights such as RKBA or right to make a living......so we could actually be secure in our persons and effects.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Of course the government should be in business of "licensing" rights such as RKBA or right to make a living......so we could actually be secure in our persons and effects.
    Exactly ... the gov't business knowing who owns guns, who carries, who wants to use them as Q-tips.

    So the OP can start moving toward making his "instructor" job obsolete as far as gov't reasons are concerned.

    I was a ffl, kitchen table dealer, for years and years. Never had anyone come up to the house trying to cause trouble. In fact every other neighbor of mine had ffls .... zero crime.

    Someone would need to be an idiot to come up to a ffl (or instructor's house or ccw permit holder's house) and start causing trouble.

    The only issue I have is that the STATE collects this information and uses it against US. Its information they should never collect in the first place.

    NO 4473's, NO CCWs, NO anything that provides gov't with info about who owns what....I assure you, I so sloppily wrote my 4473's so that no one can read them...not even me...and I never completed any "multiple firearms" forms as a ffl or completed or sent any DPS-3 forms for or to my state that "requires" them...I did not keep sales invoices, purchase invoices, ANY records other than my sloppy ffl transaction book and sloppy 4473 forms.

    Up your nose with a rubber hose is my response to these unconstitutional laws and regulations.

    And I sold handguns to folks in chgo after their handgun ban, "assault rifles" to folks in cook county after their "AW" ban ....

    So I have more than talked the talk ...

    And I continue to push for our freedoms...

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    --snipped--

    And I sold handguns to folks in chgo after their handgun ban, "assault rifles" to folks in cook county after their "AW" ban ....

    So I have more than talked the talk ...

    And I continue to push for our freedoms...
    Are you therefore admitting to violating the law and thereby additionally the Forum Rules?

    (15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ....

    this release of information now identifies my isolated, nondescript, unmarked facility as something associated with firearms etc. which, to protect equipment inside, i must now fortify to protect the contents from possible malicious trespass and theft.

    ....
    You had not already done that? Where is the facepalm smiley?

    Come the zombie apocolypse or mongol hordes on small ponies I've got barely a good day's worth of ammo, but there are things in place to make it more difficult for folks than just walking in. Plus a attitude, of course.

    Depending on what you have, you are talking about anything as simple as a driveway annuniator and some cheap magnetic window/door alarms to constructing a reinforced concrete bunker with Level II blast doors. I'm gonna put my money on the shallow end of the continuum as what you need.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You had not already done that? Where is the facepalm smiley?

    Come the zombie apocolypse or mongol hordes on small ponies I've got barely a good day's worth of ammo, but there are things in place to make it more difficult for folks than just walking in. Plus a attitude, of course.

    Depending on what you have, you are talking about anything as simple as a driveway annuniator and some cheap magnetic window/door alarms to constructing a reinforced concrete bunker with Level II blast doors. I'm gonna put my money on the shallow end of the continuum as what you need.

    stay safe.
    Or, he could just shoot a intruder. if he is away his insurance man can cut a check.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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