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Thread: Cincinnati/SW Ohio Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk

  1. #1
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    Cincinnati/SW Ohio Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk

    https://www.facebook.com/events/269922139835838

    This walk will take place around part of the perimeter of the University of Cincinnati {edited - and ON CAMPUS, an Ohio first!}, in the neighborhood of Clifton. **This will be a great opportunity to be seen by the public and interact with college students.**

    The walk starts at NOON, Saturday April 12.

    Long guns are welcome (!!) *with proper muzzle control*, literature encouraged (with/without your group's name), flags (because of overhanging awnings), camo, and grungy clothes discouraged.

    Lunch arrangements are in progress, and lunch will take place about halfway through the walk.

    A number of business owners have made it clear that they, like the Cincinnati Police Chief, consider the area to be a "target rich environment" for criminals - thanks to the legislated Criminal Empowerment Zone otherwise known as UC.

    Please check the forums at OpenCarry.org, Ohioans for Concealed Carry, and Buckeye Firearms Association for more details or updates.

    Please sign up on Facebook, or let me know here if you're coming. I'm trying to match up the number of people with an appropriate lunch location.


    Edited to add: McMillan and Calhoun Streets are now fully developed, and have a great deal more businesses than Google Streetview shows.
    Last edited by BB62; 04-05-2014 at 11:51 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Some more information about the walk/Clifton area:

    While the area is not a "ghetto", you can read about the legislated Criminal Empowerment Zone and the surrounding area:

    University of Cincinnati student, concealed carry holder NOT ALLOWED BY LAW to carry his firearm, brutally beaten: http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/...ampus/24649584

    I talked with the student who was attacked this past weekend.

    but, not to worry, the unarmed "safety ambassadors" are coming: http://www.wlwt.com/news/uc-to-deplo...ampus/24774864


    Here the anchor says “Some students at UC (University of Cincinnati) are so scared of crime they’re now carrying guns…” and in the article posted with the video the Cincinnati Chief of Police says “(The area round UC) is what we call a target-rich environment…”

    http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/...ng-on-students


    From 2005, same old, same old: "Shooting sparks new safety push around UC" http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...4170431/-1/all

    "We're at the stage now where we're trying to implement a lot of the ideas we've come up with. Those ideas include better lighting, more aggressive policing and an analysis of crime "hot spots."...
    "...Crime statistics show that the neighborhoods around the college all have their share of violent crime: 235 murders, rapes and aggravated assaults in Corryville, Avondale, University Heights, Fairview and Clifton from January 2004 through February 2005..."


    BOTTOM LINE:

    I want you, your friends, interested parties, and members of your or other organizations to attend.


    ** Parking is on Brookline. **
    Ignore the "Permit Needed" signs as they apply only to Monday-Friday. Rallying point is at the intersection of Brookline & ML King.

  3. #3
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    The concealed carry holder whose attack was mentioned in the first WLWT story wrote a letter to the University of Cincinnati's President, Santa Ono, about the attack, and his frustration with being disarmed by Ohio's laws. It was published in the student newspaper, the News Record. The student will be present for the April 12 walk. His letter was superb and on-point:

    "This past weekend, my fiancé and I were on our way home from an engineering banquet at the Newport Aquarium. While walking home from the middle of campus, crossing Clifton Ave. at Clifton Ct. I saw two UC students get chased the other way across Clifton Ave. onto campus by a crowd of roughly 10 African American teenagers who were young high school students. They surrounded one of the individuals and started pushing him around. Having read enough Greg Hand emails, I knew that they weren’t going to leave him alone. I jumped in and tried to separate everyone and in the process was brutally assaulted, kicked to the ground and beaten by more people than I can count while repeatedly told that I “f***ed with the wrong n****rs”. The entire event lasted no more than 30 seconds, and the group of attackers quickly dispersed.

    I’m doing well now which I credit to all of the exceptional police officers, firemen and medical professionals that were involved from that point forward in treating me for my injuries, but I’d like to raise a number of questions about safety here at UC. First, the closest blue safety phone was at least 250 feet from the incident, so that was of no help to us. No security cameras were pointed near the incident. The City of Cincinnati has a curfew law which prohibits people under 18 from being out past midnight, but it is not well enforced. The police took five minutes to respond, so we are obviously not protected well by their current levels of staffing either.

    To all current and potential UC students: DO NOT BE DELUSIONAL ENOUGH TO THINK THE POLICE OR UNIVERSITY WILL BE ABLE TO PROTECT YOU if something similar happens.

    I possess a concealed carry permit which allows me to carry my firearm many places in Ohio, but not on a University campus. I’m trained to discharge this firearm when there is a danger to the life of myself or my loved ones. If the University isn’t going to protect me, then shouldn’t I be given the ability to provide protection for myself? In its motherly attempts to protect us by limiting weapons on campus, the University is making us targets.

    Some people say that these perpetrators around campus act irrationally, but I give them more credit than that. They know that by targeting students, it is guaranteed that we won’t have any means to defend ourselves. To me, the choice is clear for the administration. Either provide the safety services that students need or give us the means to do it ourselves.

    I know that we are a long way from legalizing concealed carry on campus, so I’d like people to talk more about how the University can better protect us. Proactively police and enforce the curfew law that already exists. Add more cameras around campus so criminals can be caught. Add more officers, some of whom are plain clothed. Create outreach programs at the local high schools to influence those troubled students. Put real money behind these efforts, not just enough to make a headline.

    Santa, I know that only the people involved are personally responsible for these tragedies. However, if you and your administration continue to do nothing or make only symbolic gestures then eventually you become guilty by inaction. Until this problem is resolved, I cannot earnestly call UC the #HottestCollegeinAmerica.

    Respectfully yours..."
    Last edited by BB62; 03-31-2014 at 12:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    ....the closest blue safety phone was at least 250 feet from the incident, so that was of no help to us. No security cameras were pointed near the incident. The City of Cincinnati has a curfew law which prohibits people under 18 from being out past midnight, but it is not well enforced. The police took five minutes to respond, so we are obviously not protected well by their current levels of staffing either."

    It sounds like there is a legitimate safety concern here. This situation is not likely to change anytime soon. Has anyone contacted the powers that be, as to why gangs of kids are allowed to attack people?

    I'm wondering if, instead of walking around the perimeter of the campus, we take a pointer from our friends in Connecticut and walk right through the center of the campus. An act of civil disobedience, over what I believe is a unconstitutional law which directly violates my God given right to self defense.

    The State Constitution guarantees my right to KABA, so does the Second Amendment. Why are these criminal protection zones allowed to continue?

    Offer myself up as the test case? I've done so on many occasions. Could you imagine, gun free zones in Ohio ruled unconstitutional? Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    The concealed carry holder whose attack was mentioned in the first WLWT story wrote a letter to the University of Cincinnati's President, Santa Ono, about the attack, and his frustration with being disarmed by Ohio's laws. It was published in the student newspaper, the News Record. The student will be present for the April 12 walk. His letter was superb and on-point:

    [snip, from the letter] "...First, the closest blue safety phone was at least 250 feet from the incident, so that was of no help to us."
    I don't know how well armored those phones might be nowadays, but in years past they were vandalized and broken about as often as they worked. Of course the so-called reasoning from the university opined in part that 'Everybody has a cell phone now anyways.' Yeah, unless as part of the crime the good guy(s) are relieved of theirs during the mugging/attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSlack7851 View Post
    It sounds like there is a legitimate safety concern here. This situation is not likely to change anytime soon. Has anyone contacted the powers that be, as to why gangs of kids are allowed to attack people?

    I'm wondering if, instead of walking around the perimeter of the campus, we take a pointer from our friends in Connecticut and walk right through the center of the campus. An act of civil disobedience, over what I believe is a unconstitutional law which directly violates my God given right to self defense.

    The State Constitution guarantees my right to KABA, so does the Second Amendment. Why are these criminal protection zones allowed to continue?

    Offer myself up as the test case? I've done so on many occasions. Could you imagine, gun free zones in Ohio ruled unconstitutional? Just a thought.
    2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.
    (B) A valid concealed handgun license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun in any manner prohibited under division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code or in any manner prohibited under section 2923.16 of the Revised Code. A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places:

    (5) Any premises owned or leased by any public or private college, university, or other institution of higher education, unless the handgun is in a locked motor vehicle or the licensee is in the immediate process of placing the handgun in a locked motor vehicle;
    Carry a concealed handgun. Repeat, carry a concealed handgun.

    3345.011 State university definitions.

    State university" means a public institution of higher education which is a body politic and corporate. Each of the following institutions of higher education shall be recognized as a state university: university of Akron, Bowling Green state university, Central state university, university of Cincinnati, Cleveland state university, Kent state university, Miami university, Ohio university, Ohio state university, Shawnee state university, university of Toledo, Wright state university, and Youngstown state university.

    State institution of higher education" means any state university or college as defined in division (A)(1) of section 3345.12 of the Revised Code, community college, state community college, university branch established under Chapter 3355. of the Revised Code, or technical college.

    "University system of Ohio" means the collective group of all of the state institutions of higher education.

    "Member of the university system of Ohio" means any individual state institution of higher education.
    The State of Ohio owns all the property that the University of Cincinnati sits on.
    Unless someone can show me a law that says you cannot open carry on public property I say go for it.

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    UC student newspaper publishes article

    It looks like some public records requests, as well as more legislative pressure, is going to be required...

    http://tinyurl.com/m5as7c8

    "Legislation would allow concealed carry at Ohio universities "

    by Ryan Hoffman | News Editor |

    After University of Cincinnati student Trent Amstutz was assaulted by a group of teenagers on the southwest edge of main campus in February, he wondered how the incident would have played out had he been able to legally carry a firearm on campus.

    Under Ohio law, Amstutz, a fifth-year engineering student and licensed concealed carry holder, and other concealed carry licensees are not permitted to carry on certain public property including university buildings and campuses.

    However, several bills at the state house could change the law to allow concealed carry on college campuses and other prohibited sites. The polarizing topic is drawing mixed responses from law enforcement officials, students, administrators and advocates on both sides of the issue.

    “These [current] laws restrict the good guys,” said Ohio House Rep. John Becker, (R – Clermont). “I’m trying to put the good guys on equal footing with the bad guys so nobody has to be a victim or at least you’ll have the opportunity to shoot back. It’s about leveling the playing field.”

    Becker, whose district includes UC’s Clermont campus, has sponsored three different bills and cosponsored another bill that would eliminate restricted zones where concealed carry is not permitted.
    One of Becker’s bills, house bill 403, would generally allow concealed carry on public property and in publicly owned secure buildings.
    The freshman legislator said the issue is all about ensuring the constitutional right to protect oneself.

    “The idea of a lot of these gun bills, including [HB 403], is to chip away at those restrictions and restore gun rights in the name of safety,” Becker said.
    But local law enforcement officials aren’t certain that allowing concealed carry at UC would reduce the number of crimes.

    Since most of the crimes that victimize students are happening off campus where concealed carry licensees can already carry, it’s unlikely that allowing concealed carry on campus would reduce crime, said Capt. Paul Neudigate, Cincinnati Police Department District Five commander. Of the 39 robberies in which a student was a victim in 2013, four happened on campus, according to data compiled by the university.
    Also, roughly 60 percent of those students who are victimized are under the influence of alcohol, which disqualifies a licensee from being able to carry at that time, Neudigate said.

    “I don’t want to say it doesn’t deserve further merit and looking into, but the facts are, in 98 percent of the cases it wouldn’t have made a difference in any of the student victimization that we have,” Neudigate said.

    Allowing concealed carry would likely impact police officers and their ability to respond to a crime, said Jeff Corcoran, interim UC police chief. “From a police officer’s perspective, the biggest worry with CCW permit holders is how do we tell them apart from the bad guys?” Corcoran said in an email. “In a high-stress situation it is very easy to turn toward a police officer giving you commands with a gun still in your hand, which is a recipe for disaster. We teach officers that if they are in plain clothes or off-duty, the uniformed officer is always ‘right.’ They need to follow their commands, and avoid looking like a threat to the uniformed officer.”
    Both Neudigate and Corcoran said the vast majority of concealed carry licensees are law abiding citizens and Neudigate added that he didn’t think allowing concealed carry would make police officers’ jobs “any more dangerous than they already are.”

    But firearm advocates are, at the very least, skeptical of Neudigate’s and Corcoran’s claims, as well as other explanations typically made by law enforcement officials.
    “If you don’t accept the assertion that crime goes down when people are legally able to carry then I would ask the question ‘why do you think crime is as high as it is around UC when you’re not able to carry?’” said Jeffry Smith, a UC alumnus and firearm instructor and advocate.

    Smith, who is planning a firearm-education event for April 12 on Martin Luther King Jr. Avenue, said even if most of the crime occurs off campus, by prohibiting concealed carry on campus, the law prohibits anyone who might have to cross or step on campus from being able to legally carry.

    He said he doubts police have data extensive enough to show how many victims were walking to or from campus. Therefore, it is unclear how large an impact prohibiting concealed carry on campus is having, he said.
    “I guess one would have to engage in a real analysis in all these crimes and where they’re happening,” Smith said.

    Amstutz, the student who was attacked in February, said by simply allowing concealed carry on campus most criminals would likely think twice about robbing or assaulting a student.
    “I don’t know specifically what would have happened differently with my experience but the biggest thing that happens is you don’t get attacked in the first place,” Amstutz said. “The moment the criminals know that you could potentially be armed, they stop attacking. It’s a deterrent. My situation would have been completely different if I had had a gun on me.”

    Opponents argue that the make-up of a university possesses too many risk factors — including alcohol abuse and high rates of suicide — to warrant concealed carry.

    “It’s something that the vast majority of college presidents and chancellors are all against,” said Andy Pelosi, director of the Campaign to Keep Guns off Campus. “I do understand there are some folks that want it, but we think there’s just too many risk factors at play here.”

    While many universities deal with safety concerns, introducing concealed carry is not the solution, Pelosi said.

    “If there’s a concern, and I can see it’s a legitimate concern, about safety, then the schools should be looking at ways to improve safety on campus, as opposed to allowing students or faculty to carry,” Pelosi said.
    UC has not taken a formal stance on Becker’s bill or the other bill that the university is keeping a distant eye on. Neither of the bills has made it out of its designated house committee.

    “We’ve not taken up a position on any of the bills,” said Margie Rolf, associate vice president of government relations, who tracks legislation in Columbus that could have a possible impact on the university. “We’re simply monitoring them at this stage of the game until we get a signal that they are going to move.”

    An increasing national, local issue

    All 50 states have concealed carry laws in one form or another. Ohio allows residents who have lived in the state for at least 45 days and are at least 21 years old to apply for a concealed carry license. An applicant must meet certain standards and complete a minimum of 12 hours of training with a certified instructor. Applicants found guilty of certain criminal offenses or who have a documented history of mental health issues are not eligible for concealed carry.

    Currently, concealed carry licensees must renew their licenses every five years.

    According to the National Conference of State Legislators, a bipartisan organization that tracks state legislation, Ohio is one of 21 states that specifically ban concealed carry on college campuses, while 22 states leave the decision up to each individual university. Currently, seven states have statutes requiring universities to allow concealed carry on campus.
    Efforts to expand or restrict concealed carry on college campuses drastically increased across the country in 2007 after a mass shooting at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University claimed 33 lives, according to the NCSL.

    “This is one of those issues that over the last couple of years is becoming more and more popular,” said Suzanne Hultin, a policy specialist at the NCSL. “We’re seeing a lot more bills come up and it’s not just college campuses but also K-12 schools and just in general.”

    In 2008, 14 states proposed legislation to expand concealed carry in some capacity on college campuses, and two states considered legislation to prohibit concealed carry on campuses. None of those bills passed.
    The number of states that proposed legislation to expand concealed carry increased in 2011 to 18, while the number of states considering prohibiting concealed carry remained unchanged at two.
    Of the 19 states that considered allowing concealed carry on campuses in 2013, two of the states passed legislation.

    Kansas passed a bill creating a provision to keep public institutions from prohibiting concealed carry unless a building has “adequate security measures.” The bill allows institutions to request a four-year exemption from the requirement. Arkansas passed legislation allowing faculty to carry concealed on campus; however, the bill allows individual institutions’ governing boards to disallow concealed carry if they so choose.
    None of the five states that considered prohibiting concealed carry on college campuses in 2013 passed the legislation.

    In Ohio, the previous three general assemblies have proposed legislation removing restricted areas for concealed carry. None of those bills made it out of the committee it was assigned.
    “I definitely am noticing an uptick in the number of bills dealing with concealed carry,” UC’s Rolf said. “I would say that most of the bills would have an impact on UC’s campus simply because we are a public institution and most of the bills deal with public facilities.”

    The two current bills are both still in committee. Becker’s bill hasn’t had its first hearing yet, and he’s not sure when it will have its mandatory first hearing. He said his bill likely would not make it out of the house. All the bills not passed expire at the end of the general assembly’s term, in this case Dec. 31.

    However, another bill proposed by Rep. Ron Maag (R-Lebanon) could very likely make it out of the house and head to the Ohio Senate, where it would need to be approved as is before Ohio Gov. John Kasich could sign it into law.

    Maag’s bill had its third committee hearing in mid-January. The committee hasn’t scheduled a fourth hearing yet, according to his office. Maag is out of town visiting an ill relative and couldn’t be reached for comment.
    But Becker said Maag’s bill is receiving a lot of support from gun lobbies.

    “If the Johnson bill and the Maag bill are the only two to get signed into law that’s good progress,” Becker said. “I’ll take that and then you know in the next general assembly we’ll work on some more.”
    Even if none of the bills pass, they could be reintroduced in the same exact state in the next general assembly, Rolf said, while noting that there are still eight months left in this general assembly and more bills could still be introduced.

    The one thing both sides agree on is that the issue is not going away anytime soon.

    “When we do have victories they’re temporary,” Pelosi said. “Because we know the issue is going to come up again.”
    Last edited by BB62; 04-01-2014 at 09:51 AM.

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    Thanks to TJW815 on OFCC for this link to a WLWT video on campus carry (or as they like to say "packing"):

    http://www.wlwt.com/news/Legislators...puses/25273250

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSlack7851 View Post
    ...I'm wondering if, instead of walking around the perimeter of the campus, we take a pointer from our friends in Connecticut and walk right through the center of the campus. An act of civil disobedience, over what I believe is a unconstitutional law which directly violates my God given right to self defense...
    Check the OFCC thread. I think that angle is going to be explored, though not as an act of civil disobedience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JSlack7851 View Post
    I'm wondering if, instead of walking around the perimeter of the campus, we take a pointer from our friends in Connecticut and walk right through the center of the campus. An act of civil disobedience, over what I believe is a unconstitutional law which directly violates my God given right to self defense.
    Check the OFCC thread. I think that angle is going to be explored, though not as an act of civil disobedience.
    And it's not quite the same thing, either. In Connecticut, they have to look through records, then come and get you. It's a whole different deal when they can snatch you up right on the spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    though not as an act of civil disobedience.
    All the better...Walking around towns is becoming boring.

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    Responding to a question by Pops Fun on OFCC:

    "Ok, I've tried to keep up with this thread, is this a educational walk around the border of UC, or is this a walk across the campus. I've been trying to recruit friends and the wife. If were walking across campus might not be a good venue for a newbie." and thoughts expressed by JSlack7851 and Color of Law on OCDO:

    This is a walk around part of the border of UC, however...

    Certain agitators have suggested that part of the walk be on/across/meandering through the UC main campus. I didn't consider doing so when setting up this walk, and have no plans to do so during the walk, however...

    I think the question and the issue is worthwhile and significant: in the seeming absence of laws restricting open carry on campus, how would various authorities react to an attempt to do so?

    Although I was initially going to pursue the matter, I decided against it, both as you may have read. "Agitator-in-Chief" MWSY stepped in and made an inquiry to an attorney in the Chief Counsel's office of UC, and posted the results on OFCC's forum.

    In the interests of those, including myself, who may have an interest in taking part in such an activity after the walk, or some other time, I've followed up on MWSY's call. I've written an e-mail to Mr. Deerck, copying the Chief Counsel of UC, the Chief of the UC PD, and the head of Cincinnati PD District 5, in which UC main campus is located, asking Mr. Deerck to confirm the conversation and apparent conclusions. I have received no response yet.

    I will continue to pursue the matter, and post here as appropriate. One thing I will not do is let the matter drop.

    I agree wholeheartedly with you that, unless and/or until the authorities respond to my (and possibly other's) queries, that on-campus OCing is not appropriate for newbies or people unaware of potential legal risks.
    Last edited by BB62; 04-03-2014 at 04:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    ...In the interests of those, including myself, who may have an interest in taking part in such an activity after the walk, or some other time, I've followed up on MWSY's call. I've written an e-mail to Mr. Deerck, copying the Chief Counsel of UC, the Chief of the UC PD, and the head of Cincinnati PD District 5, in which UC main campus is located, asking Mr. Deerck to confirm the conversation and apparent conclusions. I have received no response yet...
    Despite the passage of two full business days, I received no response from Mr. Deerck, or from anyone CC'ed on the e-mail, so just after 4:00 PM this afternoon I sent a note and associated queries directly to the Chiefs of the UC PD and Cincinnati PD, the head of Cincinnati PD District 5, the Cincinnati Prosecutor, and the Hamilton County Prosecutor and his two Chief Assistant Prosecuting Attorneys - no CC's.

    Notice has clearly been given. If the various authorities involved fail to state a legal basis upon which to object, the on-campus portion of the walk will take place near the start of the walk.

    If or when a response is received I will post about it.

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    Open carry ON CAMPUS - update: Our diversion onto campus is ON!

    As posted to Facebook:

    Open carry ON CAMPUS - update: Our diversion onto campus is ON!

    **This will be a historic event.**

    I received the following from the Chief of the UC police department: "Thank you for advising us of your event. The University of Cincinnati Police have no plans to attempt to prevent anyone from exercising their legitimate rights to assemble or to bear arms..."

    Granted, one could view the Chief's words warily, but I also received a voice and e-mail message from Cpt. Neudigate, head of District 5, saying essentially the same thing. Bottom line: this is for real.

    We're trailblazers and ambassadors. More likely than not, this will not be the only Ohio on-campus event, but this is the first. Just keep in mind what this is all about - education and interaction.

    Pictures and videos will no doubt be taken, by participants and possibly the media. Like it or not, you will be the face of gun owners.

    We will divert off Clifton Avenue, take pictures in front of McMicken Hall, the Student Union (Tangeman), possibly other places of interest, then return to Clifton Avenue to continue our walk.

    Please update your status on Facebook or here to reflect your commitment to attend - lunch arrangements need to be finalized.

    Pray for good weather, I look forward to meeting those I haven't previously, and thank all of you for coming.

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    As BB62 says, this could be ground breaking. And because of this we all must put on our most professional faces.

    Remember, our parents won't be there to keep us in line. Please don't take this wrong. But, we need this to be +P+.

    No pocket knives. No bugs. And I hope no Camo.

    We could end-up with protesters. If that happens Double double good behavior.

    Again, please don't take this the wrong way.

    Anymore suggestions, please post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSlack7851 View Post
    I've been invited her to speak here, and I intend to make the most of it. I will defend the Constitution against enemy's both foreign and domestic. And there there are a lot of domestic. I figure I've been to 26 open carry events,(pictures). Hows your day going Werz? I'm not counting posts.
    Since you cross-posted here in OCDO what you posted in OFCC, I'll respond the same here, except in way designed for this forum:

    The object should be to persuade. The "little boys being naughty" routine may provide some folks with a lot of gratification, and it will get attention, but it won't likely be positive attention.

    JSLACK7851, you have seen how I am able to persuade. The fact that you prefer an in-your-face ambush method does not make it more valid, and definitely does not make it more effective. It hasn't escaped my notice that this event has prompted some of the OCDO-only crowd to return to OFCC from their self-imposed exile. That's great, and it's good to see you in both forums. However, it does not automatically invalidate the opinions of others, either here or in OFCC. And I would note the finding of Grapeshot regarding the dedication of OFCC to both open and concealed carry:

    Official ruling, called decision - no determined organizational bias against OC by OFCC known.
    I find no evidence of a concerted effort to suppress OC or limit the discussion thereof. I like the site and wish them well.
    But let's clarify the real issues I raised:

    1. I said it was a good idea to notify the police and legal officers at the University that there would be an open carry walk across campus, not just on the periphery. To the best of my knowledge, that has never been done at a state university in Ohio. I thought it would be a good idea to determine if they were going to object and react harshly, and also, challenge them to come up with a legal reason for doing so. I suggested the wording, and several people sent emails. The response seems to have been favorable. Permission was never requested.
    2. I suggested no long arms. I did not suggest that long arms should never be carried. I simply suggested that, because this is the first attempt to open carry across campus at a state university, it might be good to limit it to handguns and save the long guns for a day when we have done it successfully a few times. I'll also remind you of the rules of this forum:

      (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions which ban handgun carry but not long gun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
      Ohio does not ban open carry of handguns. The fact that those over 18 years of age and under 21 years of age cannot own a handgun is not much of an excuse, particularly when everyone who has announced an intent to carry a long gun is well over the age of 21, and I have yet to see a posting from anyone under that age who plans to attend and carry a long gun.

    If it makes you feel good to accuse me of being anti-RKBA, I don't really care. My goal is to normalize open carry, not to entertain myself by alienating others. I would also note that you didn't feel it was necessary to carry a long gun at Oberlin. However, you and your wife did bring your dogs, and I made sure that I had video of that and of everyone else who brought a dog. The purpose is to make people see that we are like them, and to allow them to form a connection with us. For those who have not seen those videos of a calm and well-behaved group of open carriers, here it is.

    For what it's worth, I would love to bring my big dogs to an open carry event, but I cannot manage them and the camera at the same time. The camera is important so that we control the message and don't just leave it in the hands of the mainstream new media. This is BB62's show, and he can do as he wishes. The public reaction remains to be seen, but I cannot attend to take video. I hope someone will document what actually occurs because the reaction of the news media is predictable.

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    ** breaking news **

    ** BREAKING NEWS**

    UC does not plan to take any action against students who openly and lawfully carry firearms in the demonstration scheduled for 4/12/14

    Karen S. Kovach
    Deputy General Counsel
    Office of the General Counsel


    How about that!


    Actual reply in response to my e-mail: "I am in receipt of your email dated 4/10/14. Please be assured that the University does not plan to take any action against students who openly and lawfully carry firearms in the demonstration scheduled for 4/12/14. Thank you for your inquiry."

  18. #18
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    I'm a little surprised that this thread hasn't been replied to much since it started. The visit to UC while armed is taking our group fireams activism up a notch or two.

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    I'm a little surprised that this thread hasn't been replied to much since it started. The visit to UC while armed is taking our group fireams activism up a notch or two.
    Yes sir! Cool stuff! Hopefully it will be built upon.

    For those UC students who may be concerned about on campus carry at the event, let me share part of my side of the e-mail communication between me and the aforementioned Deputy General Counsel of UC:

    Here was my question: "May I have your assurance that students who choose to openly carry ON campus during this walk, assuming the students are not threatening or harming anyone with or by the use of their firearm(s), will not face consequences based on purported violations of UC's SCoC, section (cc)?"

    and here was the answer: "I am in receipt of your email dated 4/10/14. Please be assured that the University does not plan to take any action against students who openly and lawfully carry firearms in the demonstration scheduled for 4/12/14. Thank you for your inquiry."

    I think that pretty well covers it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werz
    ...Ohio does not ban open carry of handguns.
    Or of any gun that can be legally possessed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Werz
    The fact that those over 18 years of age and under 21 years of age cannot own a handgun is not much of an excuse,...
    18 to 20 year olds CAN own and CAN possess a handgun. They just cannot buy one or be sold or furnished one. There is the exception for law enforcement officers under the age of 21 and the broken exception for young military personnel (you can buy one, but no one is allowed to sell you one).

    Quote Originally Posted by Werz
    ...particularly when everyone who has announced an intent to carry a long gun is well over the age of 21, and I have yet to see a posting from anyone under that age who plans to attend and carry a long gun...
    There WILL be at least one long gun carrier there under the age of 18. He may even be wearing a handgun.

    Heck, maybe some long gun carriers will loan their firearms to some 18 to 20 year olds for the walk.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    Thumbs up

    As much a I wish that my schedule could allow it, I cannot attend -something that I have known for a while. I am sure that I speak for many others when I sincerely thank you for your time, money, energy, and effort with this walk. I wish you the best success.

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sd790 View Post
    As much a I wish that my schedule could allow it, I cannot attend -something that I have known for a while. I am sure that I speak for many others when I sincerely thank you for your time, money, energy, and effort with this walk. I wish you the best success.
    Thank you kindly sir or madam.

  23. #23
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Thank you kindly sir or madam.


    sd790 is a sir, at least that's what his wife told me.

    You do what you can, when you can, and wish everyone else the best of luck.

    BTW, sd790...Hilliard is having a second reading for their ordinance to amend their 'no guns in parks' rule on Monday (4/14/14). Warm bodies always appreciated! LIVE warm bodies...to fill the chairs in the council chambers...that's what I meant!!

    (See? If you can't make it to ONE event, we'll just find another!)
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  24. #24
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    Briefly put, yesterday's OC walk around and ON the University of Cincinnati campus went just fine, without a hitch. About 70 total participants.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Briefly put, yesterday's OC walk around and ON the University of Cincinnati campus went just fine, without a hitch. About 70 total participants.
    Thanks for the post, Brian. It reminded me to post my summary.

    As posted on Facebook:

    I want to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart for attending. The group of 67 men, women, and children was FANTASTIC, and it included 13 UC students!!

    (** UC students make sure you read the note at the bottom of this post **)

    The interactions with members of the public were PHENOMENAL and numerous - people of different ages, races, and religious beliefs asked questions of the participants, and the participants engaged them in conversations of various lengths. People even talked to Chris Beckman for a half an hour AFTER the walk!

    My favorite encounter happened as we were returning from lunch - a women pulled her car into a driveway right in front of part of the group, blocking the group's progress back to the rally point, and essentially said "What the hell is this all about?" and then said she was scared of guns (while surrounded by about 20 people with guns). Carolyn Robey and Julie Smith Johnson, among others, talked with her and her boyfriend for a good 10 minutes, concluding with contact information being given.

    At least one person drove & carpooled 4 hours in one direction, another drove from Lima (2 hours), two from Indianapolis (2 hours), and at least 6 from around Columbus (~2 hours) to come. If I've missed your long drive, please note it. THANK YOU so much for making the trip.

    I also want to express my deep appreciation to the leaders, members and friends of Central Ohio Carry, Southwest Ohio Carry, and Ohio Carry for being the first people to recommend this walk, and for coming. From these groups, as best as I can remember names, those people are: Chuck LaRosa, Paɗɗy Mac Uidɦiɾ, Carolyn Robey, Dave Noice, and Brett Anthony.

    Thanks also to Cincy Brian, Joe Beresford, Hans Oak, oh my, I can never remember everyone, so...

    ** I know there are others whose names I haven't retained, so please remind me and PLEASE FRIEND ME if you haven't already. **

    FOOD - my deep appreciation to the folks at Hwy 55 U Square, 140 W. McMillan, Cincinnati, and DiBella's Subs, 265 Calhoun St., Cincinnati for their warm welcome and GREAT food. (if anyone can figure out how to link them, please do) Also, although those two restaurants had sufficient capacity, thanks to Penn Station, 208 W. McMillan for being willing to serve participants lunch.

    There have been LOTS of requests among the participants, the merchants, and the people we passed by to do this kind of thing again. Stay tuned!

    PLEASE post your comments about the walk, what you thought it would be like, what it was like, and your photos.

    Oh, one more thing - Ben Jung's girlfriend wins the prize for the longest long arm possessed by the shortest person. (Thanks for bringing her, Ben!)


    ONE LAST THING for UC students: the administration, through the UC legal department, made it clear that open carry on campus *for this event* was fine... BUT, the student code of conduct has not been altered *yet* so I DO NOT suggest open carrying on campus until that happens!

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