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Cincinnati/SW Ohio Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk

color of law

color of law

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What is “Law and Order?”
Law and Order is the state of society where vast majority of the population respects the rule of law, and where the law enforcement agencies observe laws that limit their powers. Maintaining law and order implies firm dealing with occurrences of theft, violence, and disturbance of peace.

3345.21 Board of trustees to maintain law and order on campus - administration and enforcement of rules.
The board of trustees of any college or university which receives any state funds in support thereof, shall regulate the use of the grounds, buildings, equipment, and facilities of such college or university and the conduct of the students, staff, faculty, and visitors to the campus so that law and order are maintained and the college or university may pursue its educational objectives and programs in an orderly manner. The board of trustees of each such college or university shall adopt rules for the conduct of the students, faculty, visitors, and staff, and may provide for the ejection from college or university property, suspension or expulsion of a person who violates such regulations. All such rules shall be published in a manner reasonably designed to come to the attention of, and be available to, all faculty, staff, visitors, and students. The board of trustees shall provide for the administration and enforcement of its rules and may authorize the use of state university law enforcement officers provided for in section 3345.04 of the Revised Code to assist in enforcing the rules and the law on the campus of the college or university. The board of trustees, or appropriate officials of such college or university when the authority to do so has been delegated by the board of trustees, may seek the assistance of other appropriate law enforcement officers to enforce the rules and to enforce laws for the preservation of good order on the campus, and to prevent the disruption of the educational functions of the college or university. The rules of the board of trustees shall not restrict freedom of speech nor the right of persons on the campus to assemble peacefully.
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Behrend v. State (1977) case was a breach of contract by Ohio University. The complete paragraph stated:
The determination of the major issues presented in this case as set forth in assignment of error number two [The Court erred in not finding that a contract existed between Ohio University and the students who are the Plaintiff-Appellants and that Defendants breached it.] is, in the main, based upon the relationship which existed between Ohio University and these students. Generally it may be stated that when a student enrolls in a college or university, pays his or her tuition and fees, and attends such school, the resulting relationship may reasonably be construed as being contractual in nature.
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The case had nothing to do with the student code of conduct.

Bleicher v. Univ. of Cincinnati College of Med. (1992) was also a breach of contract case. Again, the case had nothing to do with student code of conduct.

Mahalati v. Ohio State University (2007) was in regards to the discharge of a student under R.C. 3345.23(D) for criminal acts, aggravated burglary and felonious assault.

The student code of conduct must not fall outside the confines of “Law and Order.” And R.C. 3345.21 mandates the university board of trustees “not restrict freedom of speech nor the right of persons on the campus to assemble peacefully.”

The open carrying of firearms across campus is an exercise of that First Amendment right.
 
W

Werz

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color of law said:
The open carrying of firearms across campus is an exercise of that First Amendment right.
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Actually, I agree ... in this context. And that's exactly why University of Cincinnati allowed it, and why Ohio State University plans to allow it this coming Saturday ... in the context of a demonstration.

By the same token, that is why they have not surrendered on the rule of student conduct regarding general possession and carry of firearms on campus. I figured out a week ago that they were going to withhold enforcement of the code of student conduct on grounds of First Amendment rights, without making any statement about the Second Amendment, Article I §4, or R.C. 9.68. That way, they can appear "tolerant," attempt to marginalize our efforts, and give up nothing regarding the student code.
 
B

Brian D.

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Cincy area, Ohio, USA
Werz said:
Actually, I agree ... in this context. And that's exactly why University of Cincinnati allowed it, and why Ohio State University plans to allow it this coming Saturday ... in the context of a demonstration.

By the same token, that is why they have not surrendered on the rule of student conduct regarding general possession and carry of firearms on campus. I figured out a week ago that they were going to withhold enforcement of the code of student conduct on grounds of First Amendment rights, without making any statement about the Second Amendment, Article I §4, or R.C. 9.68. That way, they can appear "tolerant," attempt to marginalize our efforts, and give up nothing regarding the student code.
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Still, to me it's a step in the right direction on our part. As a very wise mentor once said to me: 'If you've been marginalized, you at least got on the page, not omitted or erased from it.', or words to that effect.
 
W

Werz

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Northeast Ohio
BB62 said:
So let me ask you directly: "Maybe someone can explain to me why the student conduct codes are not rules or regulations?"

Or, a similar question: What gives OSU or any other public university the right to can construct a contract, if that's what it is, that violates statutory rights, without violating 9.68?
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That's like the common question, "What law specifically says that you can open carry in the State of Ohio?" There is no law which specifically says that. Now, don't say R.C. 9.68, because that's a preemption law, which generally allows possession and transportation of firearms except as prohibited by the United States and Ohio Constitutions, federal law and state law. First, you need to see whether it's prohibited by any of those sources, and if not, then it's legal. But that involves inferring lawfulness from all the situations where an act is specifically unlawful, and you know how those inferences cause your eyes to roll and make you want to move on. :p

Personally, I think there is a good argument that a general prohibition of firearms on campus under the code of student conduct is a violation of R.C. 9.68. Getting to that issue in a court of law is another matter:

  • First, a state university is not a political subdivision; it is an instrumentality of the state, and the forum in which a lawsuit can be brought is limited. [Note: I'm still waiting for your answer on that. I thought color of law might whisper the answer in your ear, but I haven't heard from him, either.]
  • Like it or not, there is a body of case law which concludes that the code of student conduct is a condition of the contractual agreement between the student and the university. According to the courts, some statutory rights may be waived by contract, and some may not. No Ohio court has address that issue regarding firearms on campus.
  • The code of student conduct does not set forth criminal acts. Therefore, there is not criminal charge which can brought to trial, no conviction which can be appealed. All that will happen is expulsion, maybe suspension. The aggrieved student must then file a lawsuit against the university in the appropriate forum. Since there is no time limit on a civil action like there is in a criminal case, it could be several years before the case is heard.
  • This is not as simple as going into a city council and telling them that their ordinance violates state law. As you know, I have done that a couple of times, and with the precedent of Cleveland v. State, 128 Ohio St.3d 135, 2010-Ohio-6318, the ordinances were modified to comply with R.C. 9.68. That is not the case in this situation.
  • Finally, there is the risk to students who defy the code of student conduct. They risk being expelled from their university of choice. For some, that could be a huge blow. I appreciate that you did as I suggested and obtained a statement from the university that students would not be sanctioned under the student code for participating in an armed demonstration. That does not mean that the university has abandoned the general prohibition against students possessing firearms on campus.
 
MyWifeSaidYes

MyWifeSaidYes

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Since I am not a lawyer, I would assume that "political subdivisions" and "instrumentalities of the state" would both be examples of bodies politic. I'm basing that on the less-specific description of "body politic" being the catch-all.
 
W

Werz

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Joined
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Location
Northeast Ohio
MyWifeSaidYes said:
Since I am not a lawyer, I would assume that "political subdivisions" and "instrumentalities of the state" would both be examples of bodies politic. I'm basing that on the less-specific description of "body politic" being the catch-all.
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Very good. I knew you could do it. :monkey
 
Chuck!

Chuck!

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, Ohio, USA
color of law said:
Mike told me three years ago about this lawsuit he was going to file. Now you tell me the lawsuit was filed. Where is this lawsuit? I would love to read it.
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No kidding?
More than half a year before Buckeyes for Concealed Carry on Campus even existed he was talking about a law suit?
 
color of law

color of law

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Chuck! said:
Nov 8 2011, first meeting of Buckeyes for Concealed Carry on Campus:
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56928

About two and a half years ago

For their one year anniversary BCCC announced a fundraiser for their lawsuit
That was about a year and a half ago
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=64880
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Ok, I'll stand corrected. Mike Newbern has been blowing smoke for two and a half years. He lacks integrity. Most politicians and wannabe politicians usually lack integrity.
 
N

NotAgain

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Apr 20, 2014
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Cincinnati
color of law said:
Ok, I'll stand corrected. Mike Newbern has been blowing smoke for two and a half years. He lacks integrity. Most politicians and wannabe politicians usually lack integrity.
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You mean like guys that sue and then run for their local board of trustees?? Yeah I agree...
 
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