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UVA student sues the ABC - does she have a case?

Repeater

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Brandishing, apprehension, and fear: is the ABC liable?

U.Va. student sues state, ABC agents for $40 million
A University of Virginia student charged with assaulting two Virginia ABC agents attempting to stop her for the underage purchase of beer that turned out to be sparkling water has filed a $40 million suit against the state and seven agents.

...

After one agent drew a handgun and another jumped on the car hood she said she panicked, unsure they were really agents, and fled the scene in her car grazing two of the agents. The charges were later dropped, and her record was expunged.

Among other things the 47-page suit, filed Tuesday in Richmond Circuit Court, alleges malicious prosecution, failure to train ABC agents appropriately, and six counts of assault and battery.

...

The suit alleges that Daly has suffered from a tremor in her right hand, intense anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder and other problems as a result of the April 11 incident.

I don't doubt she was traumatized (unlike the Henrico bus driver).

So, does she have a case?
 

peter nap

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Brandishing, apprehension, and fear: is the ABC liable?

U.Va. student sues state, ABC agents for $40 million


I don't doubt she was traumatized (unlike the Henrico bus driver).

So, does she have a case?

From what I read, yes. There was no indication she had beer other than a beverage about the same size. They did assault her, drew a weapon when she had none.....they are in hot water. I'll also bet she can but beer by the time it gets heard and the State will settle with a gag order to keep the details quiet.
 

BillB

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VA needs to get out of the liquor business and let the private sector own and operate the stores. Maybe this suit will help towards that end. I think the gal has a case.
 

Grapeshot

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VA needs to get out of the liquor business and let the private sector own and operate the stores. Maybe this suit will help towards that end. I think the gal has a case.

This incident occurred at a privately owned convenience store where beer can be legally sold.

See no fallout from this case that would help to privatize ABC stores.
 

BillB

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This incident occurred at a privately owned convenience store where beer can be legally sold.

See no fallout from this case that would help to privatize ABC stores.

The suit is against VA ABC agents, most of whom I suspect would go away if the ABC stores did.

Do you think it's OK from a role of government perspective that VA is in the liquor business?

How does the idea of state owned and run gun stores for all gun sales other than .22 rimfire sound?
 
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user

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Absolutely not as to the state - ABC is a state agency, the claim is not negligence (as to which the Tort Claims Act would apply), but intentional torts. So ABC is covered by sovereign immunity.

As to the specific agents, they're going to get the benefit of "qualified immunity" if they were on duty and can make any kind of argument at all that they were motivated by "probable cause". No question their actions were way over the top, and they should probably be screened for mental health disorders - I'd say a TDO would be appropriate - but they're probably not civilly liable.
 

peter nap

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Absolutely not as to the state - ABC is a state agency, the claim is not negligence (as to which the Tort Claims Act would apply), but intentional torts. So ABC is covered by sovereign immunity.

As to the specific agents, they're going to get the benefit of "qualified immunity" if they were on duty and can make any kind of argument at all that they were motivated by "probable cause". No question their actions were way over the top, and they should probably be screened for mental health disorders - I'd say a TDO would be appropriate - but they're probably not civilly liable.

Well...there goes my theory out of the window.:lol:
 

peter nap

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I try to learn a little more from each incident like this but to be honest, it's hard to have hard policies in a world where the people in charge don't follow the rules. I've heard people say that the officers were lucky they didn't behave that way with someone that's armed or that they should have been run over.

If I'd have seen a badge or heard police shouted, I'd have probably given up just because of this type of thing.

The bottom line is, the way our system is today, if one of them had been hurt or killed you have two choices. Try to get to Venezuela before you get caught or stay and hope you get a sympathetic Jury and they seem to be in short supply these days.

It's a shame that we've let things slip to the level where these people face no consequences for their actions and innocent people really have no idea how to react.
 

skidmark

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Absolutely not as to the state - ABC is a state agency, the claim is not negligence (as to which the Tort Claims Act would apply), but intentional torts. So ABC is covered by sovereign immunity.

As to the specific agents, they're going to get the benefit of "qualified immunity" if they were on duty and can make any kind of argument at all that they were motivated by "probable cause". No question their actions were way over the top, and they should probably be screened for mental health disorders - I'd say a TDO would be appropriate - but they're probably not civilly liable.

So you are suggesting that the State is going to advance the notion that trained liquor-law enforcement officers with years of experience and familiarity in observing and identifying various alcoholic beverage containers developed probable cause when they saw her coming out with a cardboard case in her arms?

Just for giggles, would anybody like to suggest which brand(s) of beer come in cardboard cases with such similarity to the one she was carrying that mistaken identity could result in observing said cardboard container?

stay safe.
 

Maverick9

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With a good, no, great lawyer, like Gerry Spence, the state would settle out of court for half. Otherwise, the state wins. Any in-state lawyer would be a disaster for the plaintiff.
 
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marshaul

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Isn't underage possession a civil offense?

Either way, yeah, she has a case. I'd throw the book at 'em. They'd never be employed again.

Jumping on car hoods? What is this, Rob Pincus Day?
 

Grapeshot

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The suit is against VA ABC agents, most of whom I suspect would go away if the ABC stores did.

Do you think it's OK from a role of government perspective that VA is in the liquor business?

How does the idea of state owned and run gun stores for all gun sales other than .22 rimfire sound?
If ABC sales were privatized, guess what we would still have. Ans: Liquor stores. So that would not decrease the number of agents. In fact it might well increase the need.

That and I think a majority of their present time is probably spent on checking liquor by the drink establishments, retail beer sales and illegal alcohol.

Virginia has considered getting out of the liquor business a number of times. So far that has not been accomplished. See the revenue (profit) such sales generate for the Commonwealth is part of the problem/consideration.

No, I do not think that the state should have a monopoly on any product sold to the public. Did you really need to ask that question?
 

peter nap

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With a good, no, great lawyer, like Gerry Spence, the state would settle out of court for half. Otherwise, the state wins. Any in-state lawyer would be a disaster for the plaintiff.

Gerry Spence is a great showman, has a nifty jacket....I can't say anyone called him a great lawyer except Gerry Spence.:lol:
He wins cases because he only takes winable cases.
 
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va_tazdad

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If ABC sales were privatized, guess what we would still have. Ans: Liquor stores. So that would not decrease the number of agents. In fact it might well increase the need.

That and I think a majority of their present time is probably spent on checking liquor by the drink establishments, retail beer sales and illegal alcohol.

Virginia has considered getting out of the liquor business a number of times. So far that has not been accomplished. See the revenue (profit) such sales generate for the Commonwealth is part of the problem/consideration.

No, I do not think that the state should have a monopoly on any product sold to the public. Did you really need to ask that question?

18 studies over 40 years have all said the same thing. If the state privatizes, the Commonwealth will loose revenue. Last year, that was over $324 Million. All counties and municipalities benefit from the refunds and police officers that the ABC fund and the whole budget for Mental Health is funded by the ABC "profits".

No governor has been willing (Except Wilder, and he got caught trying to buy some of the stores while he was in office) to give up the cash cow.
 

BillB

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18 studies over 40 years have all said the same thing. If the state privatizes, the Commonwealth will loose revenue.

That's right it's because of the revenue that VA is still in the liquor business. I know it's somewhat of a pipe dream, but maybe one day we'll get some politicians that will reduce the size of government and save the same amount or more that it would lose by privatizing the ABC stores. Additionally, since VA's ABC Department is a revenue generator, I believe it has far more agents than it needs and if the revenue were no longer there most of the ABC's revenue agents would not be there either.
 
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Grapeshot

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That's right it's because of the revenue that VA is still in the liquor business. I know it's somewhat of a pipe dream, but maybe one day we'll get some politicians that will reduce the size of government and save the same amount or more that it would lose by privatizing the ABC stores. Additionally, since VA's ABC Department is a revenue generator, I believe it has far more agents than it needs and if the revenue were no longer there most of the ABC's revenue agents would not be there either.
Same answer as in post #15 - repeating your premise doesn't make it valid.

The funding for the VSP is not dependent on their ability to generate revenue, but on perceived need for enforcement. Believe the same will hold for ABC.
 

BillB

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Same answer as in post #15 - repeating your premise doesn't make it valid.

The funding for the VSP is not dependent on their ability to generate revenue, but on perceived need for enforcement. Believe the same will hold for ABC.

I guess you and I will just have to disagree here. VSP could be doing everything the ABC agents do, especially if the ABC Department were not in the liquor business.
 
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