Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Hr 218 aka leosa?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    2

    Question Hr 218 aka leosa?

    I am a fairly new deputy in North Dakota. I will be visiting my nephew in a north eastern county, specifically Becker County. Now with this new law HR 218, I am having trouble on where I can an cannot carry while off-duty. We all know the saying is that we are "never off-duty" lol. But, I digress. So to make this simple, I am going to be picking up and signing out my nephew from his HS for lunch on an upcoming visit. Under MN law a licenesed peace officer can carry off duty in a school, but the definition in the Statute only defines a "Peace Officer" under 626.84 as basically any state agency that has the power to act as a Law Enfrcement officer. Also under fed law I am not to carry, even as an off duty LEO with in a 1,000 ft of a school if I do not have that states CC permit. So as a LEO from another state and totally different jurisdiction outside of the state of MN, can I carry into the school under HR 218 aka LEOSA or not. I did email the Sheriff and the Chief of Police of the county and city respectfully to ask them. But as I wait for a response I wanted to hear what other officers from MN had to say cuz I know a few of them are on here.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by USMC0341 View Post
    I am a fairly new deputy in North Dakota. I will be visiting my nephew in a north eastern county, specifically Becker County. Now with this new law HR 218, I am having trouble on where I can an cannot carry while off-duty. We all know the saying is that we are "never off-duty" lol. But, I digress. So to make this simple, I am going to be picking up and signing out my nephew from his HS for lunch on an upcoming visit. Under MN law a licenesed peace officer can carry off duty in a school, but the definition in the Statute only defines a "Peace Officer" under 626.84 as basically any state agency that has the power to act as a Law Enfrcement officer. Also under fed law I am not to carry, even as an off duty LEO with in a 1,000 ft of a school if I do not have that states CC permit. So as a LEO from another state and totally different jurisdiction outside of the state of MN, can I carry into the school under HR 218 aka LEOSA or not. I did email the Sheriff and the Chief of Police of the county and city respectfully to ask them. But as I wait for a response I wanted to hear what other officers from MN had to say cuz I know a few of them are on here.

    Thanks
    Do you have 10 years of LEO credentials?
    Political Director - MN Gun Owners Caucus/PAC
    NRA Instructor (BP, PPITH, PPOTH, Shotshell + Metallic Reloading, RSO)
    Certified Glock Armorer - Permit to Carry Instructor - Aegis Outdoors

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    2

    Hr218 aka LEOSA

    The 10 years only applied if your retired. I qualify under the QLEOSA (Qualified Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act). There's two parts to LEOSA, the active law enforcement officer an the retired officer. I'm just asking about schools in MN; is it ok to carry in them since local, State LEO's can carry in schools (k12) when off duty?

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by USMC0341 View Post
    I am a fairly new deputy in North Dakota. I will be visiting my nephew in a north eastern county, specifically Becker County. Now with this new law HR 218, I am having trouble on where I can an cannot carry while off-duty. We all know the saying is that we are "never off-duty" lol. But, I digress. So to make this simple, I am going to be picking up and signing out my nephew from his HS for lunch on an upcoming visit. Under MN law a licenesed peace officer can carry off duty in a school, but the definition in the Statute only defines a "Peace Officer" under 626.84 as basically any state agency that has the power to act as a Law Enfrcement officer. Also under fed law I am not to carry, even as an off duty LEO with in a 1,000 ft of a school if I do not have that states CC permit. So as a LEO from another state and totally different jurisdiction outside of the state of MN, can I carry into the school under HR 218 aka LEOSA or not. I did email the Sheriff and the Chief of Police of the county and city respectfully to ask them. But as I wait for a response I wanted to hear what other officers from MN had to say cuz I know a few of them are on here.

    Thanks
    If you are in compliance with the federal gun free schools Act, you may use LEOSA to carry into a private school even if the state prohibits it, as long as the private school is not posted private property.



    Setting federal law side Leo so preempts All state gun restrictions except for government property is prohibited by state law and posted private property if the state allows private property to prohibit guns.

    LEOSA also applies to concealed firearms, not just handguns. Even covers short-barreled rifles and short-barreled shotguns as long as you comply with all federal transport rules and tax stamp requirements.

  5. #5
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    154
    18 USC 921/922 is pretty clear you either need a state permit, or be an LEO acting in an official capacity.
    Political Director - MN Gun Owners Caucus/PAC
    NRA Instructor (BP, PPITH, PPOTH, Shotshell + Metallic Reloading, RSO)
    Certified Glock Armorer - Permit to Carry Instructor - Aegis Outdoors

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, ,
    Posts
    836
    The law is almost 10 years old so it is not exactly "new".

    The way I read it, and the way I read MN law, you would NOT be covered to enter a public school. As already stated if appears you could go into a private school that wasn't posted. This is not legal advice.

    Wisconsins laws are also screwy on that issue. Unless I am on duty I cannot legally go on school property or even be within 1000 feet of it without a CCL.

    As a LEO you should be aware that it's the Attorney Generals Office of a state you should be asking these legal questions to, not a Sheriff of Chief.

    I'm going to warn you about something else, newbie. Most of the folks here don't care for HR218. Understandable as it creates a special class of people. When you meet hostilities on these boards talking about it don't say I didn't warn you.

  7. #7
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    As already stated if appears you could go into a private school that wasn't posted.
    Not in MN. Permit and permission needed for any K-12 school or licensed daycare.

    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    As a LEO you should be aware that it's the Attorney Generals Office of a state you should be asking these legal questions to, not a Sheriff of Chief.
    Plus 1,000

    I don't know how it is in ND but cops are not legal experts here.
    Political Director - MN Gun Owners Caucus/PAC
    NRA Instructor (BP, PPITH, PPOTH, Shotshell + Metallic Reloading, RSO)
    Certified Glock Armorer - Permit to Carry Instructor - Aegis Outdoors

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    Not in MN. Permit and permission needed for any K-12 school or licensed daycare.


    Plus 1,000

    I don't know how it is in ND but cops are not legal experts here.

    You are incorrect about schools (private), Assuming one is in compliance with the federal gun free schools act, a LEOSA covered person can carry in a private school notwithstanding Minnesota law. Any state restriction is preempted under LEOSA unless it's posted private property or if its a ban on government property.

    A private school is not government property.

    If the ND LEO in question has a MN Permit to carry a pistol and the school is private, he can carry into the school and legally ignore Minnesota's ban under LEOSA, provided that the school isn't posted no guns.

    If it's public, then your assessment is correct... but for private, it's incorrect.

  9. #9
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    You are incorrect about schools (private), Assuming one is in compliance with the federal gun free schools act, a LEOSA covered person can carry in a private school notwithstanding Minnesota law. Any state restriction is preempted under LEOSA unless it's posted private property or if its a ban on government property.

    A private school is not government property.

    If the ND LEO in question has a MN Permit to carry a pistol and the school is private, he can carry into the school and legally ignore Minnesota's ban under LEOSA, provided that the school isn't posted no guns.

    If it's public, then your assessment is correct... but for private, it's incorrect.
    No, I'm not.

    If he's not acting in an official capacity, he can't carry in any school. If he wants to carry in a MN school, he would need a Permit and permission.

    Also, where does 218 require a "posting" for private businesses?
    Last edited by robdoar; 04-01-2014 at 08:17 AM.
    Political Director - MN Gun Owners Caucus/PAC
    NRA Instructor (BP, PPITH, PPOTH, Shotshell + Metallic Reloading, RSO)
    Certified Glock Armorer - Permit to Carry Instructor - Aegis Outdoors

  10. #10
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,276
    OP are you planning to be in schools that you have no children in while out of state? Seems the wisest move would be follow the same laws that the rest of the population follows. Keep in mind depending on state laws you are not on duty while outside your jurisdiction. That is why many police officers and retired officers here get their CHP. But that will do you no good in the state you are visiting.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    No, I'm not.

    If he's not acting in an official capacity, he can't carry in any school. If he wants to carry in a MN school, he would need a Permit and permission.

    Also, where does 218 require a "posting" for private businesses?
    Try reading LEOSA....

    If the private school does not prohibit carry on their own volition (not by state law fiat) and if the private school is not a government installation, building, base, or park.... Then LEOSA trumps any Minnesota law to the contrary and they can't say jack about it.

    The law requires some type of posting or verbal notice because people aren't mind readers and no LEOSA covered person can assume to know if a private entity does not want a firearm on their property.

  12. #12
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Try reading LEOSA....

    If the private school does not prohibit carry on their own volition (not by state law fiat) and if the private school is not a government installation, building, base, or park.... Then LEOSA trumps any Minnesota law to the contrary and they can't say jack about it.

    The law requires some type of posting or verbal notice because people aren't mind readers and no LEOSA covered person can assume to know if a private entity does not want a firearm on their property.
    Please cite the notification requirements.

    And what part of LEOSA overrides 18 U.S.C. 922(q)?

    Please be specific.

    Bonus reading for you... http://www.bluesheepdog.com/leosa-school-grounds/
    Political Director - MN Gun Owners Caucus/PAC
    NRA Instructor (BP, PPITH, PPOTH, Shotshell + Metallic Reloading, RSO)
    Certified Glock Armorer - Permit to Carry Instructor - Aegis Outdoors

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, ,
    Posts
    836
    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    And what part of LEOSA overrides 18 U.S.C. 922(q)?
    This is the type of argument that has gone back and forth since the enactment of HR218. I always play it safe and avoid places I'm not sure where I'm covered.


    The ultimate answer, of course, is the absolute obeyment of the 2nd Amendment where everyone has the same carry rights, and the only place one couldn't carry openly or concealed would be on private property where the owner has posted. We'd all avoid places like that, though.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    Please cite the notification requirements.

    And what part of LEOSA overrides 18 U.S.C. 922(q)?

    Please be specific.

    Bonus reading for you... http://www.bluesheepdog.com/leosa-school-grounds/
    As I said before, he needs a MN permit to comply with 18 USC 922(q). In fact, I've said that twice already (3 times now). You kept mentioning MN law which means squat if it's preempted by LEOSA. The fact that he needs a state permit to comply with 922(q) does not change the fact that LEOSA overrides MN's ban on school carry as applied to private schools.

    Notification requirements are implied. How can one know if a private establishment prohibits firearms without being notified? I can't read minds, can you?

    Thanks for the link, I'm well ahead of blue sheepdog, he does have good info but he never mentioned how short barrled rifles and shotguns are covered under LEOSA as long as the NFA interstate transport rules are followed.... Even in MN where SBS's and SBR's are generally prohibited... Not for LEOSA covered individuals....
    Last edited by Jared; 04-01-2014 at 05:58 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    This is the type of argument that has gone back and forth since the enactment of HR218. I always play it safe and avoid places I'm not sure where I'm covered.


    The ultimate answer, of course, is the absolute obeyment of the 2nd Amendment where everyone has the same carry rights, and the only place one couldn't carry openly or concealed would be on private property where the owner has posted. We'd all avoid places like that, though.

    It's not hard to follow, people on police forums just make it complicated, they are mostly incapable of applying preemption. They can't wrap their heads around that it's not just handguns that are covered and they also can't accept the restrictions in the federal gun free schools act, so they just ignore it knowing that state and local PD's can't enforce it anyway (nor would they care to).

    It's like when these people on forums say that they have to register firearms in Hawaii when carrying under LEOSA, even thought their are many LEOSA covered people who are prohibited by Hawaii law from possessing firearms due to criminal history.
    Last edited by Jared; 04-01-2014 at 06:07 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, ,
    Posts
    836
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    even thought their are many LEOSA covered people who are prohibited by Hawaii law from possessing firearms due to criminal history.
    I don't follow you on that. What kind of criminal history?

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    I don't follow you on that. What kind of criminal history?
    Violent criminal misdemeanor convictions are disqualifiers in HI.

    There are plenty of state prohibitions on carrying and even possessing firearms that LEOSA trumps because it only takes federal prohibitions into account.

    I have a guy in my agency who retired who is an alcoholic who had a DUI, he's ineligible for a Michigan carry license but he can still use LEOSA... Yes, government employees are held to a lower standard.

  18. #18
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    As I said before, he needs a MN permit to comply with 18 USC 922(q). In fact, I've said that twice already (3 times now). You kept mentioning MN law which means squat if it's preempted by LEOSA. The fact that he needs a state permit to comply with 922(q) does not change the fact that LEOSA overrides MN's ban on school carry as applied to private schools.

    Notification requirements are implied. How can one know if a private establishment prohibits firearms without being notified? I can't read minds, can you?

    Thanks for the link, I'm well ahead of blue sheepdog, he does have good info but he never mentioned how short barrled rifles and shotguns are covered under LEOSA as long as the NFA interstate transport rules are followed.... Even in MN where SBS's and SBR's are generally prohibited... Not for LEOSA covered individuals....
    Your lack of reading comprehension notwithstanding, the only exemption in 18 USC 922(q) for law enforcement officers is those acting within the scope of their duties.

    Since an out of state LEO wouldn't have any official duties, that exemption doesn't apply. The ONLY way he can carry in a school is just like any other lowly civilian.... under the PTC exemption (b)(2)

    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    ETA: More for your reading pleasure...
    http://le.nra.org/leosa/off-limit-areas.aspx

    The exemptions for these areas (36 C.F.R. 2.4(e) & (h), 18 U.S.C. 922(q)) allow for individuals carrying concealed in accordance with the laws of the state in which the federal park or GFSZ is located to carry concealed in them*; however, an individual carrying under LEOSA is carrying under FEDERAL LAW and not in accordance with the laws of the state they are in. What this means is that you are NOT exempted from carrying a concealed firearm in these areas UNLESS you are on official duty or posses a valid and qualifying state issued concealed carry permit.
    Last edited by robdoar; 04-01-2014 at 07:55 PM.
    Political Director - MN Gun Owners Caucus/PAC
    NRA Instructor (BP, PPITH, PPOTH, Shotshell + Metallic Reloading, RSO)
    Certified Glock Armorer - Permit to Carry Instructor - Aegis Outdoors

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    Your lack of reading comprehension notwithstanding, the only exemption in 18 USC 922(q) for law enforcement officers is those acting within the scope of their duties.

    Since an out of state LEO wouldn't have any official duties, that exemption doesn't apply. The ONLY way he can carry in a school is just like any other lowly civilian.... under the PTC exemption (b)(2)

    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
    No, you are the one who has trouble reading.

    You said MN requires permission to carry in a school. I showed you THREE TIMES how LEOSA trumps that for private schools. You lack understanding of preemption.

    As far as the FGFSZA, I ALREADY SAID that he needs a STATE PERMIT to comply with federal law. I understand it perfectly clear.

    The FGFSZA and MN's statute exist in tandem. So let me break it down for you since you are having severe trouble understanding it.


    1. The OP NEEDS... NEEDS.... NEEDS... A state permit to comply with the FGFSZA


    AND.....AND....AND


    2. He NEEDS LEOSA.... LEOSA.... To trump MN's STATE BAN, on private schools.... PRIVATE SCHOOLS.


    So, with a MN permit AND LEOSA ID, he can carry into a private school regardless of whatever law MN had to the contrary.
    Last edited by Jared; 04-01-2014 at 07:55 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    2. He NEEDS LEOSA.... LEOSA.... To trump MN's STATE BAN, on private schools.... PRIVATE SCHOOLS.
    NO! He doesn't. GFZ applies to private schools too!

    (25) The term “school zone” means—
    (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
    (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
    When not acting in official capacity, he needs to comply with MN Permit law to qualify for the B2 exepmtion.
    Last edited by robdoar; 04-01-2014 at 08:20 PM.
    Political Director - MN Gun Owners Caucus/PAC
    NRA Instructor (BP, PPITH, PPOTH, Shotshell + Metallic Reloading, RSO)
    Certified Glock Armorer - Permit to Carry Instructor - Aegis Outdoors

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    NO! He doesn't. GFZ applies to private schools too!



    When not acting in official capacity, he needs to comply with MN Permit law.

    Yes the FGFZA applies to private schools; however, the MN permit satisfies the exception.

    That does not satisfy the state ban in schools. Even the FGFSZA says that satisfying the federal ban does not mean a state ban is trumped.

    So all what is left to satisfy is the state school ban. Which MN has, as you know as the VP of a gun rights group in MN., has a state ban with some exceptions.

    So to satisfy the state ban in a private school, the OP may use LEOSA.

    I think you hare having trouble understand how the FGFSZA and MN state version co-exist in tandem.

    State permit = satisfies the federal law.

    LEOSA = exemption from MN state ban if the school is private.... But not for public schools.

    Not to be rude, but as a VP of a state gun group, you should have a better understanding about how two separate laws work in tandem.

    This isn't hard to understand, but instead of understanding the WHOLE picture, you are only looking at one aspect and berating someone over it who clearly has a superior understanding of the issue.

    Since MN is difficult for you to understand, let's use an easier example.

    Connecticut has had a ban on guns in schools since 1998. I can carry in a private school in CT because I have a CT permit (meets FGSZA requirements) and my LEOSA ID trumps the CT school ban for private schools.

    So LEOSA + CT permit to carry pistols and revolvers = I can carry in private schools in CT.

    A CT permit holder can not carry in a CT school.

    A LEOSA person can not carry in a CT school or within a 1000 feet because of FGFSZA.

    I can not carry in a public school in CT because even though my CT license complies with FGFSZA, it doesn't comply with the state ban and my LEOSA ID does not trump the state ban like it would for a private school.
    Last edited by Jared; 04-01-2014 at 08:37 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Not to be rude, but as a VP of a state gun group, you should have a better understanding about how two separate laws work in tandem.
    Not to be rude, as a cop from out of state, you should refrain from giving "advise" that could land someone a felony charge. Your perceived "superior understanding" is not passing muster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    I think you hare having trouble understand how the FGFSZA and MN state version co-exist in tandem.
    And I think you're having trouble understanding how exemptions work. LEOSA does not meet either the "official duty" exemption or the B2 exemption. He has to carry under the terms of MN permit. LEOSA mentions nothing about schools, and does not override 18 USC 922(q).

    But I'm tired of going in circles. Just trying to help him avoid a felony charge from bad advice. Consult an attorney if you want a proper education. There's a MN law professor chuckling at this thread at this very moment. Cheers.
    Last edited by robdoar; 04-01-2014 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Since he edited his to take a shot at me...
    Political Director - MN Gun Owners Caucus/PAC
    NRA Instructor (BP, PPITH, PPOTH, Shotshell + Metallic Reloading, RSO)
    Certified Glock Armorer - Permit to Carry Instructor - Aegis Outdoors

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    And I think you're having trouble understanding how exemptions work. LEOSA does not meet either the "official duty" exemption or the B2 exemption. He has to carry under the terms of MN permit. LEOSA mentions nothing about schools, and does not override 18 USC 922(q).

    But I'm tired of going in circles. Just trying to help him avoid a felony charge. Consult an attorney if you want a proper education. There's a MN law professor chuckling at this thread at this very moment. Cheers.
    Then your attorney isn't worth his bar license.

    The FGFSZA requires a license to posses a firearm, it could be any type of gun license offered by the state, it doesn't have to be a carry license. Show me where the FGFSZA says It has to be a carry license and I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong.... Show me.

    Show me where the FGFSZA says you need a "carry" license and you need to "carry under the terms of a MN (state) permit"?

    Illinois cops have been carrying into schools since the FGFSZA was enacted and they have relied on a FOID possession card to be in compliance with the FGFSZA, not a "carry" license.

    The FGFSZA does not require that you have a carry license AND you carry under the license. Your status as a person "licensed" to "possess" a firearm gives you complete exemption from the FGFSZA, no if's or buts.



    That is not hard to understand. For example, an Illinois FOID card meets the exception for IL, a New Jersey FID card meets the requirement, it doesn't have to be a concealed carry license. In New York, a New York City permit to possess a rifle and shotgun meets the FGFSZA exemption. In Michigan, a license to purchase/possess qualifies. In Hawaii, a registration certificate qualifies.


    Again, show me where you need a "carry" license to be exempt from the FGFSZA? Any license to "possess" works.

    So your so called law professor is a hack who should do a little more reading and a little less chuckling.

    Ask the adjunct "professor" under what law can a MN permit holder with a LEOSA ID be charged with for carrying in a private school? Show me??????
    Last edited by Jared; 04-01-2014 at 09:05 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by USMC0341 View Post
    I am a fairly new deputy in North Dakota. I will be visiting my nephew in a north eastern county, specifically Becker County. Now with this new law HR 218, I am having trouble on where I can an cannot carry while off-duty. We all know the saying is that we are "never off-duty" lol. But, I digress. So to make this simple, I am going to be picking up and signing out my nephew from his HS for lunch on an upcoming visit. Under MN law a licenesed peace officer can carry off duty in a school, but the definition in the Statute only defines a "Peace Officer" under 626.84 as basically any state agency that has the power to act as a Law Enfrcement officer. Also under fed law I am not to carry, even as an off duty LEO with in a 1,000 ft of a school if I do not have that states CC permit. So as a LEO from another state and totally different jurisdiction outside of the state of MN, can I carry into the school under HR 218 aka LEOSA or not. I did email the Sheriff and the Chief of Police of the county and city respectfully to ask them. But as I wait for a response I wanted to hear what other officers from MN had to say cuz I know a few of them are on here.

    Thanks
    Not sure if you heard back from the local chief or sheriff but you need a MN permit to be exempt from the Federal gun free school zone ban.

    After complying with the federal law, you can then carry under LEOSA on a private school in MN unless they prohibit guns either by signage or by verbally communicating such to you.

    If your nephew is at a public school then you can not carry in the school because while the MN permit exempts you from the federal ban as the MN permit "licenses" you to "possess" a firearm per 18 USC 922, LEOSA does not exempt you from the state ban because a public school is a government "building" as defined in LEOSA.

    Short version...

    MN permit = exemption from entire federal gun free school zone possession ban.

    LEOSA = exempts you from MN's school ban if the school is private.

    You need to comply with both provisions.
    I hope this helps.
    Last edited by Jared; 04-01-2014 at 09:18 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    Not to be rude, as a cop from out of state, you should refrain from giving "advise" that could land someone a felony charge. Your perceived "superior understanding" is not passing muster.



    And I think you're having trouble understanding how exemptions work. LEOSA does not meet either the "official duty" exemption or the B2 exemption. He has to carry under the terms of MN permit. LEOSA mentions nothing about schools, and does not override 18 USC 922(q).

    But I'm tired of going in circles. Just trying to help him avoid a felony charge from bad advice. Consult an attorney if you want a proper education. There's a MN law professor chuckling at this thread at this very moment. Cheers.
    So where does B2 in FGFSZA use the word "carry"?

    It's just frustrating that a VP of a so called gun group in MN doesn't understand this.

    I don't need to be a cop in MN to understand this... I'm not a state cop, but I do have (unlike state cops) the ability to enforce the FGFSZA... And I fully understand it and how it doesn't use the word "carry" in B2.

    Don't pout over "shots" being taken, I believe you were the first one to engage in ad hominem because even though you are a MN instructor, you are not educated on the FGFSZA and don't even realize that the word "carry" isn't mentioned as an exemption. So if you can't grasp that, then you won't grasp the rest of it. B2 is an absolute exemption to the possession aspect of the GFSZA, not a conditional exemption provided that you abide by the confines of the state "possession" license, as you suggest.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •