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Thread: Travelling from the land of persecution to Colorado

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    Travelling from the land of persecution to Colorado

    Hello.

    I am from the terrible (for firearms enthusiasts) state NJ.

    I am leaving to live in a state with more reasonable, liberty respecting laws.

    I am traveling across country soon and I was hoping to be able to OC as much as possible along the way, maybe continuously once I get to the first car-friendly OC state.

    So what do you think are the best routes for an OC-er to travel from New Jersey to Colorado, with as little harassment as unarmed time as possible?

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    CO will seem like a paradise compared to craphole NJ....but only for a while...

    they should put into a tom-tom gfz and other gun restricted areas

    "turn left here to avoid a GFZ"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanNabis View Post
    Hello.

    I am from the terrible (for firearms enthusiasts) state NJ.

    I am leaving to live in a state with more reasonable, liberty respecting laws.

    I am traveling across country soon and I was hoping to be able to OC as much as possible along the way, maybe continuously once I get to the first car-friendly OC state.

    So what do you think are the best routes for an OC-er to travel from New Jersey to Colorado, with as little harassment as unarmed time as possible?
    Welcome to OCDO.

    While I appreciate your problem, I doubt that anyone will attempt to map your route for you - there are just too many variables.
    In PA you can OC, but not in a vehicle w/o a permit - so will you transverse PA or cross in a more restrictive state? While VA is very attuned to OC, you'd have to pass through Wash. D.C. and/or MD - both would be bad.

    When you have made your decision, let us know.

    Hope you're not ending up in Denver or Denver County - neither allows OC.

    You will need to determine your best route considering your desire to OC as much as possible and any other influencing factors.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    If you have a smartphone, get the legal heat app. It's a pretty decent app that has laws for every state. It's a patchwork across the US. I traveled a lot between CO and Indy. Illinois is a no-no carry place. Your gun is to be stored in a locked container/away from the driver in a trailer that is monitored by 3 highway patrol officers and a itchy desire to arrest you... just kidding. But there's no OC in Illinois so, don't bother.

    Anyway, the other place to look is handgunlaw.us. It's a good website.

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    Thank you for the responses.

    I don't expect anyone to plot a route for me, but maybe share pitfalls and advice/experience as some of you may have travelled in areas between NJ and CO.

    I have no qualms extending my trip length in order to exercise my rights. I really believe this shouldn't be an issue anywhere as it is an inherent right only reaffirmed by documents and given by no higher power than God (or by birth for the Atheists), but the legal system is rather 'fuhcoktah.'

    Mobiushky, Thank you, I will look in to mobile heat.



    Here's my basic idea so far - Avoiding PA since no OC in vehicles.

    Start: NO Carry - NJ to DE/MD to

    OC - VA to KY to

    Iffy - MO / AR to KS to
    **** The OpenCarry.org OC map lists AR as a gold star state and yet the page on AR explains that OC is not even actually an option in AR - rather confusing.
    *I'm thinking since I'm only passing through, that AR might be ok with OC in vehicle. Maybe I'll just try not to stop there unless for gas. Or I'll stick to MO which seems to allow adult OC in cars and while passing through.

    OC - CO (<-amazing how Colorado's abbreviation hasthe same letters as Open Carry. )

    I just want to try and find out as many issues or problems I might face as I travel and I'd like to have to take off my holster as little as possible.

    Has anyone had any experience travelling OC in these states or through them??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Welcome to OCDO.

    Hope you're not ending up in Denver or Denver County - neither allows OC.

    I agree. I am saddened that Denver county and city have created such useless foolish laws, but they may serve a better purpose when they are overturned in court.

    I will be avoiding Denver like the plague.
    I'd love to be able to live OC. Luckily I'm not going to Denver. Hopefully I will be better able to help defend our rights as a CO citizen, in NJ the social-political atmosphere is overwhelmingly unhelpful/dark ages. There's just been so much less experience with firearms in this state in recent decades, despite the states rich firearm history. Poor Henry Arms. People are afraid of what they don't know.

    I'm going to go through the no carry MD/DE since they are small and it's basicly still NJ/NJ law similar. I'll be glad when I reach VA.

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    OC seems like such a natural thing while headed west with my possessions.

    Why should anyone have to be unarmed, like cattle ripe for the harvest?
    Bank trucks and politicians travel with armed protection, they are no more important than any individual, all lives being inherently equal until they resort to crime or non-defensive violence.

    Almost like rolling west in a covered wagon.

    If you have your life and possessions, why would you not be able and ready to protect yourself?
    There is nothing out there to protect you from anything, whether crooks or critters.
    Police are not charged with protection, but punishment after a crime was committed.
    Last edited by DanNabis; 03-29-2014 at 01:14 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Reply edited for content.

    Erroneous state was referenced by me; therefore all of the cites are invalid.

    Input equalled output - no surprise there
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-29-2014 at 04:00 PM. Reason: AR = Arkansas; AZ = Arizona
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanNabis View Post
    SNIP...The OpenCarry.org OC map lists AR as a gold star state and yet the page on AR explains that OC is not even actually an option in AR - rather confusing.
    *I'm thinking since I'm only passing through, that AR might be ok with OC in vehicle. Maybe I'll just try not to stop there unless for gas. Or I'll stick to MO which seems to allow adult OC in cars and while passing through.
    My underlining of the "AR" DanNabis refers to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't have any idea which "page" to which you refer that might indicate that OC is not an option in Arizona.

    Arizona is one of our “Gold Star” open carry states.
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=186


    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=101

    Any person 21 years of age or older, who is not prohibited possessor, may carry a weapon openly or concealed without the need for a license.
    http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/arizona.aspx

    Arizona is one of a few states where open carry of a handgun is allowed without a license, unless there is a sign posted that clearly limits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. Arizona is a constitutional carry state whereby a resident may carry a handgun without a license unless otherwise prohibited.
    http://www.gunlawsbystate.com/#!/sta.../introduction/
    While I find great pleasure in finding a plug for the sunny, dry state of Arizona, I don't think DanNabis was asking about it.
    But thanks for the pick-me-up Grapeshot. Haven't yet had your coffee, I gather.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 03-29-2014 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Clarification about quotes
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    DanNabis, if you like CO laws (for the most part), you're sure to love Arizona laws (as Grapeshot pointed out so lovingly).
    In what is the Four-Corners area, Arizona and Nevada have some pretty good laws. If you're ever down in Arizona, make sure to let us know (I'm sure the Nevada members echo my sentiment).

    Best of luck on your journey, and hope you and yours experience only beautiful scenery and the occasional food or restroom break.

    Let us know how it goes.

    Kind of off topic: I wonder if we should start up a New Underground Railroad for "smuggling" Freedom-loving individuals to Freedom-loving states.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Confused too. But I'm sure he means Arkansas, not Arizona?

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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't have any idea which "page" to which you refer that might indicate that OC is not an option in Arizona.

    Arizona is one of our “Gold Star” open carry states.
    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=186


    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=101

    Any person 21 years of age or older, who is not prohibited possessor, may carry a weapon openly or concealed without the need for a license.
    http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/arizona.aspx

    Arizona is one of a few states where open carry of a handgun is allowed without a license, unless there is a sign posted that clearly limits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. Arizona is a constitutional carry state whereby a resident may carry a handgun without a license unless otherwise prohibited.
    http://www.gunlawsbystate.com/#!/sta.../introduction/
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    My underlining of the "AR" DanNabis refers to.



    While I find great pleasure in finding a plug for the sunny, dry state of Arizona, I don't think DanNabis was asking about it.
    But thanks for the pick-me-up Grapeshot. Haven't yet had your coffee, I gather.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    DanNabis, if you like CO laws (for the most part), you're sure to love Arizona laws (as Grapeshot pointed out so lovingly).
    In what is the Four-Corners area, Arizona and Nevada have some pretty good laws. If you're ever down in Arizona, make sure to let us know (I'm sure the Nevada members echo my sentiment).

    Best of luck on your journey, and hope you and yours experience only beautiful scenery and the occasional food or restroom break.

    Let us know how it goes.

    Kind of off topic: I wonder if we should start up a New Underground Railroad for "smuggling" Freedom-loving individuals to Freedom-loving states.

    "I",,, will be the one to tell grapeshot,,, that
    AR,,, is NOT Arizona!!!!!
    It is Arkansas!!!


    ETA thanks fattykrack you and I posted together,,,,
    But it was something grape just had to hear...
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 03-29-2014 at 03:53 PM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post

    Kind of off topic: I wonder if we should start up a New Underground Railroad for "smuggling" Freedom-loving individuals to Freedom-loving states.
    And then allow these states to reproduce, divide, and conquer?! Hah, I still feel bad for leaving Calis eternal fight behind me.. Oh wait no I don't.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    My underlining of the "AR" DanNabis refers to.

    While I find great pleasure in finding a plug for the sunny, dry state of Arizona, I don't think DanNabis was asking about it.
    But thanks for the pick-me-up Grapeshot. Haven't yet had your coffee, I gather.
    Apparently too much coffee - brain was on a collision course with my head.

    Will go back and edit out the erroneous reference.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wooops,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Apparently too much coffee - brain was on a collision course with my head. Will go back and edit out the erroneous reference.
    Too late now,,, We got you... We caught you... By now.... Boz Skags.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Too late now,,, We got you... We caught you... By now.... Boz Skags.
    Hope this is a civil case and I can just pay the fine w/o having to do any time......is community service an option?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wow,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Hope this is a civil case and I can just pay the fine w/o having to do any time......is community service an option?
    You dont need to do any time,,, all ready got you for the ride,,, We be Even...

    Community service=tell me ... drowning terrorist,,, ferry tale 3,,, free coffee,,, ETC!!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    You dont need to do any time,,, all ready got you for the ride,,, We be Even...

    Community service=tell me ... drowning terrorist,,, ferry tale 3,,, free coffee,,, ETC!!!!
    Way too involved/off topic for this thread.

    A settlement offer has been accepted as of Friday w/non-disclosure statement. Expect to see all that led up to that shortly.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I appreciate the responses.

    it really is a ton of work for gun owners, we basicly need to be lawyer scholars in todays world. The laws can be quite difficult to find explicit answers in. And travelling adds so many jurisdictions.

    I understand localities can regulate firearm discharge, but we could really use one unified clear cut decision/amendment/statue that simply says open carry is legal everywhere.

    I'm getting ready for this and its quite a handful..
    I think I'll be pretty good sticking to the above itinerary.

    Going to have to practice my appropriate LEO answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanNabis View Post
    I appreciate the responses.[ ... ] Going to have to practice my appropriate LEO answers.
    There is one appropriate answer to all LEO questions, "I exercise my Fifth Amendment right to silence absent contrary advise of counsel."
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    There is one appropriate answer to all LEO questions, "I exercise my Fifth Amendment right to silence absent contrary advise of counsel."
    "I don't mean to sound rude officer, but I do not consent to this encounter and would like to be on my way. If I am being arrested or detained, then I exercise my Right to remain silent as protected by the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Any further questions you may have will only be answered with my lawyer present in a court of law."
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 04-12-2014 at 03:16 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    DanNabis,

    No need to care TOO much about travelling through unfriendly (anti-gun) states since Federal law covers you:


    As per the "Safe Passage" provision of the Firearm Owners Protection Act.
    18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms:

    "Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

    see http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A


    Consequently, don't get over-worried about it, just go and enjoy your trip.

    Happy Trails...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 04-12-2014 at 05:30 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member z28power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    FOPA Quote
    But he specifically said he wants to OC as much as possible for his move to CO, so I think that's where the specification comes into play that involves more research

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I've driven cross-country with firearms a couple times.

    Really, there is no substitute for planning a route, then reading the pertinent sections of legislation (or at least looking at the OCDO maps) for each state on the list. The last thing you want to do is catch a gun charge in some state you'd prefer never to return to.

    Or you can leave it locked in the trunk the whole time.
    Last edited by marshaul; 04-16-2014 at 09:35 PM.

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    z28power,


    Yes, I was only addressing travelling with a gun, not carrying it (sorry)...

    But wanting to OC as much as possible probably isn't realistic, so he should just get through the "inconvenience" of not being able to OC in every state he passes through and just focus on GETTING to his destination as soon as possible (no "loitering" in repressive/backwards in-between repressive states -- where he CAN carry as he wants to. So yes, the gun will be spending a lot of time locked up...but the good news is that it will still be in his possession, rather than confiscated during some traffic stop. I mean, imagine someone in a car with Texas license plates driving through Maryland -- a traffic stop is quite possible, and no matter how you secure your guns in your car, the conversation probably won't be pleasant; the end result may be worse.

    And lately, people in cars with Colorado license plates (now that pot is legal here) say they are being profiled and stopped in other states, merely for having CO plates, as cops think pot is aboard.

    Whatever, the important thing is to MOVE and arrive safely...WITH your "cargo." Which likely will mean you can't OC in every state. Even if the state DID allow OC and DID have a pre-emption law preventing cities/towns from differing, you could have a situation like Colorado -- which DOES have a state-wide pre-emption law -- yet arrogant Denver has exempted itself from said law -- exempted itself from it's own State Constitution -- and declared OC is illegal in Denver/Denver County, so there are the various local ordinances that might get you anyway even in an "alleged" OC state (as someone else mentioned).

    At least he's going to a state where there's both CC and OC...could be worse, like moving to Hawaii. ;-)

    Aloha...

    :-)
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 04-16-2014 at 10:05 PM.

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