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Thread: Carrying her gun to Wells Fargo got her fired,

  1. #1
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    Carrying her gun to Wells Fargo got her fired,

    "Ivette Ros carries her 9-millimeter handgun almost everywhere, saying it makes her feel safe. Then she brought it to her job at Wells Fargo, where she worked as a branch manager, and it got her fired. So Ros is suing the bank, saying it violated her constitutional rights and other protections afforded under Florida law. The bank, which bans employees from carrying guns on company premises, replied in a court filing that only the government, not a private employer, can be sued over alleged constitutional violations. The case in Florida is unfolding as part of a bigger debate on how far the rights of gun owners extend into the workplace. "

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/car...red-2014-03-25
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  2. #2
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    She'll lose.....if we're lucky.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    well, FL does not have the public policy exception to at-will employment ...

    http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf


    So it must be a civil rights case ....

    I doubt she'll win...unless the court wants to etch out a public policy exception that it has not done in 50+yrs...

    all employees should read this pdf about at-will employment

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    She'll lose.....if we're lucky.
    why? like having rights limited or for another reason?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    She'll lose.....if we're lucky.
    Am also quite curious as to why

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    Does anyone here think it would be smart or beneficial to allow the government to control businesses so that they are no longer solely autonomous in their decisions?

    What they giveth, they can taketh.

  7. #7
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    how on earth did well fargo, her employer, discern she had a firearm in the first place, and then to fire for 'first' offense seems a tad strict.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    how on earth did well fargo, her employer, discern she had a firearm in the first place, and then to fire for 'first' offense seems a tad strict.

    ipse
    Have you not heard of "ZERO TOLERANCE"? It is ALL the rage in public schools!

    No answers required! LOL
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
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    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FattyKrack View Post
    Am also quite curious as to why
    Literally just one word needed:

    Freedom


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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Have you not heard of "ZERO TOLERANCE"? It is ALL the rage in public schools!

    No answers required! LOL
    Soon it will be "NEGATIVE TOLERANCE" you won't even need to do anything ...

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    She'll lose.....if we're lucky.
    OK FORME, why such a dumba$$ statement?
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arentol View Post
    Literally just one word needed:

    Freedom


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    Very true, did not think about it that way. Ironically the same argument can be had for her winning. Freedom.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Does anyone here think it would be smart or beneficial to allow the government to control businesses so that they are no longer solely autonomous in their decisions?

    What they giveth, they can taketh.
    Thank you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    why? like having rights limited or for another reason?
    See above.
    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    OK FORME, why such a dumba$$ statement?
    Ditto.

    Our private property right is the last bastion of liberty.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  14. #14
    Regular Member tomrkba's Avatar
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    The problem I have with all this is that no mere contract with a corporation should ever override a right. Corporations are created by government and contracts are enforced by government. It stands to reason that a contract between a person and a government created entity--a legal fiction representing a group of people--should not be able to infringe upon any right. The argument I am making is not about your personal property, but about the behavior of a fictional entity that exists only on government forms.

    I am not so certain about contracts between individuals. I will leave that out of the discussion since the case is about Wells Fargo, a corporation, and an individual.
    Last edited by tomrkba; 03-28-2014 at 09:22 AM.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    No, not really. If she loses, that means that Wells Fargo can decide how to run it own property. In other words, they are free to do as they please on property they own. This is freedom. If she wins, Wells Fargo is restricted by the state in what it can do. Wells Fargo is not free to do anything except what the state says it must do. This is not freedom. If she loses, she is free to do as she pleases, anywhere except on other peoples property, where she must do as the property owner directs her. This is Freedom. If she wins, she may do as she pleases, but must allow others to do as they please on property she owns. Not freedom. So, freedom prevails only if she loses her case.
    Makes sense. Guess this is one of those cases where the "cure" would be worse than the disease.
    Thanks for the explanation gutshot.

    I don't want any more state infringement on what I can and can't do on my own property. I have more than enough of that already. What are the chances she might just "cease and desist" and this doesn't make it to court, or the chances that it gets tossed out before an activist judge rules in her favor, creating a "poisoned apple"?
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    (snip)Makes sense. Guess this is one of those cases where the "cure" would be worse than the disease.
    Exactly. It's like letting the entire camel into the tent because you are annoyed at the draft his nose creates.

  17. #17
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Thank you!!

    See above.Ditto.

    Our private property right is the last bastion of liberty.
    there are no private property rights in the US. discrimination is discrimination. it is discrimination whenever a right is denied
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  18. #18
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    No, not really. If she loses, that means that Wells Fargo can decide how to run it own property. In other words, they are free to do as they please on property they own. This is freedom. If she wins, Wells Fargo is restricted by the state in what it can do. Wells Fargo is not free to do anything except what the state says it must do. This is not freedom. If she loses, she is free to do as she pleases, anywhere except on other peoples property, where she must do as the property owner directs her. This is Freedom. If she wins, she may do as she pleases, but must allow others to do as they please on property she owns. Not freedom. So, freedom prevails only if she loses her case.
    when you open your doors to the public, you must allow for the rights of the public. there are no PROPERTY RIGHTS in the US. all property is subject to laws. Weather she wins or loses, that will not change the facts

    Wells Fargo is already subject to lots of laws.

    a good example would be, they do not have the right to search you even if you are on their property
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    when you open your doors to the public, you must allow for the rights of the public. there are no PROPERTY RIGHTS in the US. all property is subject to laws. Weather she wins or loses, that will not change the facts

    Wells Fargo is already subject to lots of laws.

    a good example would be, they do not have the right to search you even if you are on their property
    This is known as public accommodation. For example, if you own a restaurant, you must not discriminate based upon race, gender, etc.

    Public accommodation has not extended to the bearing of firearms in any jurisdiction that I am aware of.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  20. #20
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    not yet anyways...

    remember, public accommodation statute(s) varies and have been slanted from 42 USC 2001 to state to state so the law(s) even pertains to non public entities such as the Boy Scouts of America.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 03-30-2014 at 05:52 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    when you open your doors to the public, you must allow for the rights of the public. there are no PROPERTY RIGHTS in the US. all property is subject to laws. Weather she wins or loses, that will not change the facts

    Wells Fargo is already subject to lots of laws.

    a good example would be, they do not have the right to search you even if you are on their property
    Using bigger letters will not make your statement true. The bank can exclude your firearm. Just cuz it is attached to you matters not.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  22. #22
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    It seems to me that Florida is a non OC state so she had to conceal. Saying "I'm carrying a concealed handgun" is not concealing. I also work somewhere where employees are "banned" from carrying "dangerous weapons" and I have yet to say that I am or am not carrying a gun, knife, kuboton, clappers or scissors. I bet she sucks at hide and seek.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    This is known as public accommodation. For example, if you own a restaurant, you must not discriminate based upon race, gender, etc.

    Public accommodation has not extended to the bearing of firearms in any jurisdiction that I am aware of.
    that is by law. laws are easily changed
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  24. #24
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Using bigger letters will not make your statement true. The bank can exclude your firearm. Just cuz it is attached to you matters not.
    which has more power; a vague right that has nothing enumerating it

    or a right that has been spelled out and defended for 230 years, ruled on in the supreme court
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  25. #25
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    which has more power; a vague right that has nothing enumerating it

    or a right that has been spelled out and defended for 230 years, ruled on in the supreme court
    Where has any court ruled/opined that you may carry your pistol onto private property against the owners/controllers desires?

    Just cuz you dislike private property right(s) does not mean that your dislike carries weight on another citizen's private property.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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