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Thread: Waterfront Park

  1. #1
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    Waterfront Park

    Has anyone else heard about the attacks at waterfront park? Had these folks been exercising their 2A rights do you think the results would've been any different? How well does a single armed citizen stack up to a mob of 20+?

    This just adds to the many reasons why I stay south of the Gene Snyder as often as possible.

    Here's a link to just one of the many stories.
    http://www.wave3.com/story/25061909/...aterfront-park

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    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    Waterfront Park

    I was there Sunday the day after all the mayhem. At the time I decided to go check out the big four Bridge I had not heard about what had occurred the night before. As to the question of one armed Citizen vs a Mob, one never knows the final outcome to such a scenario. I would offer a speculative guess, If one would have used a gun in aid of the assaulted party at the Bridge it could have dispersed the mob in a quick manor or could have started a gun fight. We know at least one had a gun, speaking only for myself I would find it hard to stand and watch an innocent Person being assaulted in front of their family. But until faced with this scenario I do not know exactly how I would react.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travis1911 View Post
    Has anyone else heard about the attacks at waterfront park? Had these folks been exercising their 2A rights do you think the results would've been any different? How well does a single armed citizen stack up to a mob of 20+?

    This just adds to the many reasons why I stay south of the Gene Snyder as often as possible.

    Here's a link to just one of the many stories.
    http://www.wave3.com/story/25061909/...aterfront-park
    I'm no expert and it could go either way, but I would drop as many as I could in hopes that the others would scatter. You probably couldn't shoot them all, but you could get a few.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member bigdodge25's Avatar
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    What I don't understand is how 2 dozen cameras are going to do anything to stop the madness. Criminals rob places every day with cameras and does that stop them, Heck no. only thing that has ever turned a criminal around is a law abiding citizen with a firearm

    As stated above if the victim was carrying it probably would have turned out better but could have started a gun fight. No one knows though. Also an eye opener as to why you need to carry extra mags.
    G19

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travis1911 View Post
    Has anyone else heard about the attacks at waterfront park? Had these folks been exercising their 2A rights do you think the results would've been any different? How well does a single armed citizen stack up to a mob of 20+?

    This just adds to the many reasons why I stay south of the Gene Snyder as often as possible.

    Here's a link to just one of the many stories.
    http://www.wave3.com/story/25061909/...aterfront-park
    Is there a media blackout on this kind of stuff, or are people just oblivious?

  6. #6
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    None of us can predict the future. But if I'm getting beat by 20+ people, I'm going to assume that their plan is to kill me. So if I fire the first shot and one of them fires back on me, dead is dead. Just because one of the thugs had a gun doesn't necessarily mean that he was willing to use it. I assume that most people that carry (LAC's & thugs) have the mindset that they will use their firearm if need be. But how many times have we seen "crunch time" arrive and people freeze up?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I'm no expert and it could go either way, but I would drop as many as I could in hopes that the others would scatter. You probably couldn't shoot them all, but you could get a few.
    ? Really

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    None of us can predict the future. But if I'm getting beat by 20+ people, I'm going to assume that their plan is to kill me. So if I fire the first shot and one of them fires back on me, dead is dead. Just because one of the thugs had a gun doesn't necessarily mean that he was willing to use it. I assume that most people that carry (LAC's & thugs) have the mindset that they will use their firearm if need be. But how many times have we seen "crunch time" arrive and people freeze up?
    Ok now I get it. I apologize. I thought you meant just "dropping" people who were mobbing or fighting other people not you. This makes sense.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    weird question

    since the bridge is blocked off at the Indiana side is the whole span considered Kentucky? therefore oc legal. Or is there some point on the bridge that it turns to Indiana jurisdiction?
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Ok now I get it. I apologize. I thought you meant just "dropping" people who were mobbing or fighting other people not you. This makes sense.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    That does bring up an interesting point. Surly you would intervene if you saw an innocent person about to be killed or seriously injured by another person. After all, KRS 503.070 does state "The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when: (a) The defendant believes that such force is necessary to protect a third person against imminent death, serious physical injury, kidnapping,sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055"

    But what would you do if instead of the victim having one or two attackers, they instead had 50 to 100 attackers?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  11. #11
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Bob Hill, well know Louisville naturalist, author and businessman, has organized a walk across the Big Four Bridge on Sunday, March 30 at 1 pm. His stated purpose is to show community support for the "popular span". Louisville Mayor, Greg Fischer, has committed to participating in the walk. This would be an excellent OC opportunity. Not only would you demonstrate that OC is legal, but that it is wise to do so, in light of the recent events. As an extra bonus, you also would have the opportunity to really irritate two outspoken proponents of gun control and those that are attracted to their events. The real, positive aspect is that if you were illegally arrested, you would only have to spend one night in jail; quite a selling point. This might be the only time I could visit downtown Louisville and feel safe.
    Once again I must confess my ignorance.........what is "popular span"?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRM59 View Post
    since the bridge is blocked off at the Indiana side is the whole span considered Kentucky? therefore oc legal. Or is there some point on the bridge that it turns to Indiana jurisdiction?
    So it's a walking bridge to nowhere?

    Hmmm...

    At least on Cincinnati's Purple People Bridge you can go all the way across: http://purplepeoplebridge.com/
    Last edited by BB62; 03-29-2014 at 12:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    ...This might be the only time I could visit downtown Louisville and feel safe.
    Okay, so who's going?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    ...This might be the only time I could visit downtown Louisville and feel safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Okay, so who's going?
    Well, I was thinking about coming, but since it appears no one else is, I guess I won't!

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Well, I was thinking about coming, but since it appears no one else is, I guess I won't!
    No reason not to go.
    You'll have the opportunity to desensitize A LOT of people, especially if you have the wife and kids in tow.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    That does bring up an interesting point. Surly you would intervene if you saw an innocent person about to be killed or seriously injured by another person. After all, KRS 503.070 does state "The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when: (a) The defendant believes that such force is necessary to protect a third person against imminent death, serious physical injury, kidnapping,sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055"

    But what would you do if instead of the victim having one or two attackers, they instead had 50 to 100 attackers?
    My underlining for emphasis.

    You mean a riot not unlike what occurred in L.A.?

    I'll go ahead and answer. Depending on the circumstances, the person may or may not be worth the effort:

    If it is a known anti being mobbed, I would chalk it up as karma.
    If it was a Freedom-loving individual or a child (just about the only innocent human beings on this planet), then an effort must be made, and hopefully you remembered carried extra magazines.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 03-29-2014 at 10:01 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    ...This might be the only time I could visit downtown Louisville and feel safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Okay, so who's going?
    Well, I was thinking about coming, but since it appears no one else is, I guess I won't!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    No reason not to go.
    You'll have the opportunity to desensitize A LOT of people, especially if you have the wife and kids in tow.
    If I lived near Louisville, instead of 110 miles away, I would go, but when it seems there's no local interest, well...

  18. #18
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    SNIP...If I lived near Louisville, instead of 110 miles away, I would go, but when it seems there's no local interest, well...
    *Says while looking down at boots, embarrassed*: Didn't see your state of residence when I posted that. My bad.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRM59 View Post
    since the bridge is blocked off at the Indiana side is the whole span considered Kentucky? therefore oc legal. Or is there some point on the bridge that it turns to Indiana jurisdiction?
    Whether bridge, road, sidewalk, parking lot, or railroad track, when you cross the line you are somewhere else

    Blocking one end doesn't alter where you are or who is in control.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    The Indiana-Kentucky state line is located at the northern low water mark of the Ohio River as it was in 1792.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1981/10/21/us...y-dispute.html

    If we assume that the borders as drawn on Google Earth are accurate, the entirety of the Big Four span(not including the Indiana side ramp, which is not yet open) looks to me to be within Kentucky.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lo...d3b4282071fd32

  21. #21
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    That does bring up an interesting point. Surly you would intervene if you saw an innocent person about to be killed or seriously injured by another person. After all, KRS 503.070 does state "The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when: (a) The defendant believes that such force is necessary to protect a third person against imminent death, serious physical injury, kidnapping,sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055"

    But what would you do if instead of the victim having one or two attackers, they instead had 50 to 100 attackers?
    The wwyd questions are never good.

    Just with the info you gave me if there's 100 people attacking 1 person sounds like a zombie mob and my 17 RDS would be useless.

    I would attempt to intervene but think about this.... if you having a gun on your attempts to intervene in even 50 people attacking one person your apt to get attacked yourself. Now how do you respond to the attack? Do you shoot all of your rounds off into a crowd? No. Do you let them attack you, subdue you, then now use YOUR gun? No.

    As someone else said, short of it being a kid who's getting attacked and potentially killed, I would seriously weigh my choices before I go wading into the zombie pile.

    Also, the statute you cited says "imminent death, serious physical injury....". I doubt a fist fight between two kids would satisfy that to be able to shoot someone.

    Finally, this hypothetically wwyd doesn't even apply. There were MOBs of kids fighting EACH OTHER. So if I see a whole group of kids attacking each other then they are on their own. Let them be punks and fight it out. Especially if I'm at a public place with my family.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Presuming time to do so:

    Stop one w/SoM shot and ask who wants to be next?

    Absent that option, wish to be in another place.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    ...The question is how Louisville Metro and their highly trained and professional police force will deal with OC on the bridge.
    I suppose you forgot the /sarcasm?

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