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Thread: Loaded handgun found left in Elmbrook Church bathroom

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    Loaded handgun found left in Elmbrook Church bathroom

    A volunteer teacher at the church later called looking for her weapon, which she said she had set down in the bathroom and accidentally left behind. She told police she is normally very careful and was told she could recover the gun the next day.

    http://www.brookfieldnow.com/news/lo...252891241.html
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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Also from the article:

    "A semiautomatic handgun loaded with a full magazine, with the safety in the fire position, was found in a bathroom at Elmbrook Church about noon March 19."

    Two questions left unanswered by the article:
    1) What is her method of carry (hip OC, IWB OC, IWB CC, pocket carry, purse carry, etc.)?
    2) What handgun was it (for example, Glock and 1911 safeties differ by a lot)?
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    I can't imagine a scenario that would excuse this woman for this mistake. And in a church/school where children are present. She really should have her license revoked. She's obviously not capable of responsible gun handling.
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. - Hanlon's Razor

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Before we start judging (like the comments in the article), we need to consider that the woman in question may be new to firearms and proper holsters and methods of carry sometimes come as an afterthought. She'd probably benefit from reading among the MANY posts regarding comfortable-yet-situational holsters (in cases where OC is not the easiest option because it imperils employment or the like).

    Besides, Running Wolf's comment might be a result of some of that statist-media having rubbed off on him. I know Citizen caught me when I did that. Not intentional on my part, but I definitely needed my statist-influenced reasoning called out before I ventured too far into the dark side.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Lapeer MI, school liason officer, a retired LEO, leaves his pistol in a restroom of the school. how about his "licence"? he was still working last I knew. OR, sheriffs deputy went to her dentist. went to the rest room off the waiting room, AD thru the wall into the waiting room. Of course the sheriff couldnt comment on what disipline was meeted out to the deputy. privacy issues you know. OR, assistant principal has her pistol in her car on school property. it was discovered I don't know how but, well, you know, she got a pass on it. no charges, no nothing. Whereas a honor student had been hunting with his father that past weekend. shotgun was left in the trunk of the car he drove to school........no tolerance policy and all, he was expelled and not allowed to graduate. Oh yeah, young boy finds a pistol in the restroom of Home Depot, gets his father who then makes sure no one else gets near it and notifies store personel who call the police. they come and take the weapon and declare they will find the owner and bring them to justice. turns out it was a LEO who left it behind. I can guess not much justice was brought upon him. Now, about church lady........she will pay dearly.

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    Regular Member teddyearp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    "A semiautomatic handgun loaded with a full magazine, <snip>
    Well, what the heck good would it be with an empty magazine?

    Seriously, this media BS on making it sounds so much much more deadly or worse by using the words "Semi-automatic" and "full magazine" are really ******* me off!

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    She should not be required to have a license in the first place.

    So, if you have a lapse in judgement and cause a vehicle accident, does that mean they should revoke your driver's license because you are not responsible enough to operate a motor vehicle?
    Yes. At the least one should have some remedial training. I'm of the opinion that our current system of driver licensing has failed to assure any competency behind the wheel. I agree that the woman shouldn't need to have a license to carry in the first place. I also think she's too incompetent to carry, regardless of licensing required. The other stories related above are also examples of people too incompetent to carry. I believe there should be repercussions for incompetence.
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

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    Indeed, in all things, in all of life, just not at the whim of equally fallible men.
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    It is nice to know that there are a few perfect people in the world.
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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Indeed, in all things, in all of life, just not at the whim of equally fallible men.
    Seems to paraphrase what Frederic Bastiat said:

    "If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?"

    @Running Wolf: point me towards an infallible human alive today on this Earth, and maybe then we can debate whether this person is the only one with the competence to carry, to hold office, to have children.
    Point is, we all make mistakes, and this woman seems to have made an honest mistake (as opposed to chronic behavior or intent of malice). The problem comes when double-standards are made when dealing with the repercussions of mistakes, or punishing mistakes that did not result in tangible harm.

    The best course of action would be to help her remedy her future actions (lesson on holsters, method-of-carry, etc.).
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 03-28-2014 at 03:49 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Seems to paraphrase what Frederic Bastiat said:

    "If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?"

    @Running Wolf: point me towards an infallible human alive today on this Earth, and maybe then we can debate whether this person is the only one with the competence to carry, to hold office, to have children.
    Point is, we all make mistakes, and this woman seems to have made an honest mistake (as opposed to chronic behavior or intent of malice). The problem comes when double-standards are made when dealing with the repercussions of mistakes, or punishing mistakes that did not result in tangible harm.

    The best course of action would be to help her remedy her future actions (lesson on holsters, method-of-carry, etc.).
    I don't think absolute infallibility is required in order to carry, hold office, or have children. I really am talking about basic competency.

    Competent enough to avoid putting other lives in danger does not seem to me an unreasonable expectation. One does not need to be infallible to avoid running over pedestrians, or staying in possession of your weapon, or to avoid smothering your child to death while you're asleep.

    I expect better from my fellow man, and I intend to deliver better to my fellow man. I suspect complete freedom would clean out the gene pool very quickly.
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. - Hanlon's Razor

    No American citizen should be willing to accept a government that uses its power against its own people. - Catherine Engelbrecht

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    Quote Originally Posted by Running Wolf View Post
    I can't imagine a scenario that would excuse this woman for this mistake. And in a church/school where children are present. She really should have her license revoked. She's obviously not capable of responsible gun handling.
    Children? They should know better to not touch was is not theirs to begin with.

    I could see leaving a gun behind ...

    She's fine ... she left an inanimate object lying about, like a hammer ....

    what's a license?

    "responsible gun handling"? What's that? If you don't shoot someone you're good...

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Some people who claim to be pro-2A are sure quick to want to decide who should and should not carry guns.
    I'm also quick to decide who should and shouldn't reproduce. Doesn't make me anti-sex, though. Just makes me judgmental, hypocritical, angry, and overly-critical of others.

    You know . . . human.
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. - Hanlon's Razor

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man
    1) What is her method of carry (hip OC, IWB OC, IWB CC, pocket carry, purse carry, etc.)?
    2) What handgun was it (for example, Glock and 1911 safeties differ by a lot)?
    The only mention I've heard (in the media, so give it the weight it deserves) is that she said she carried it inside her waistband with a clip on the gun.

    Someone commenting on the JSonline article said that she wasn't with the kids' group, she was there for a "women's study group", and apparently that was corrected on the TV news, but the paper didn't see fit to correct their distribution of misinformation.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Seems to paraphrase what Frederic Bastiat said:

    "If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?"

    <snip>
    The above is why Bastiat misses the point. Legislators are not human. Assigning human characteristics beyond physical attributes is a fools errand.

    Also, was it a ugly pistol, like a Glock, or a nice one, like a XD?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Also, was it a ugly pistol, like a Glock, or a nice one, like a XD?
    If it was a Glock, it would have killed all the children instantly in its hateful rage with its "high capacity clip".
    Last edited by NoTolerance; 04-01-2014 at 03:32 PM.

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    Regular Member Yetiman's Avatar
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    They showed a Ruger LC9 on TV and said it was a pistol like this one. So it COULD have been a S&W 629 :}

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