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Thread: Rhetorical question: changing career to something to do with law

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Rhetorical question: changing career to something to do with law

    Here goes:
    I'm a biochemistry major. I'm not passionate about it ("hate" is a strong word...), but already three years into it. Scholarship only helps over four years, so I'm just going to graduate with a B.S. in Biochemistry (I do find it interesting, just not a passion). My plan is to find a job to pay for future classes towards something in law.

    Seeing as I seem to be passionate about the RKBA and the Second Amendment (squares and rectangles) as well as individual Rights and Freedoms, I figure something along that line of work might be better (hence, law). For the most part, people in what is my current line of work focus on proteins, antibodies, genomics, etc., and don't care very much about the RKBA (slight leftist slant though).

    My question:
    What is the quickest path I can take to get a degree in some form of law-oriented career?

    I say "quickest" because I don't want to spend too much time and money doing what I should have done in the first place (), but WITHOUT any (academic) scholarship help this time. All I'm looking for is a job where my passions (individual Rights & Freedoms, guns, and helping people) come together, and are able to pay my living expenses.

    I should have listened to the words uttered by my first-semester chemistry professor the first day of classes:
    "To be happy in life, do what makes your heart sing, and find somebody stupid enough to pay you for it." - Dr. Wayne E. Wesolowski (of Wikipedia fame: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Wesolowski)


    NOTE: As you can tell, this is not yet fully thought-out (the realization only hit me this semester, about a month and a half ago).
    Please have mercy in replying.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 03-28-2014 at 04:34 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    You don't need a degree to be a cop ...

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    What about crime scene forensic investigator and let your employer pay for the JD.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You don't need a degree to be a cop ...
    Was probably meant as a joke, but it is the truth.

    What better place to affect change then on the front "lines"? Gives the direct ability to affect change in a department or community. Also will allow you to get directly into the court system and see how it works.

    But you need to figure out what you want to do "for" 2a. Do you want to be the cop that refuses to arrest guys for stuff or who affects change in a department towards guys who do carry? Do you want to be a lawyer/paralegal and represent guys who got pinched for 2a stuff? Or do you want to be a lobbyist or even legislature to actually write/rewrite legislation to better conform with 2a.

    Basically I just listed affect from micro to macro. Just need to figure how what interests you and what you want to "affect" .



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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Was probably meant as a joke, but it is the truth.

    What better place to affect change then on the front "lines"? Gives the direct ability to affect change in a department or community. Also will allow you to get directly into the court system and see how it works.

    But you need to figure out what you want to do "for" 2a. Do you want to be the cop that refuses to arrest guys for stuff or who affects change in a department towards guys who do carry? Do you want to be a lawyer/paralegal and represent guys who got pinched for 2a stuff? Or do you want to be a lobbyist or even legislature to actually write/rewrite legislation to better conform with 2a.

    Basically I just listed affect from micro to macro. Just need to figure how what interests you and what you want to "affect" .



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    Your reply is much more comprehensive than my line of thought so far. And I took his comment at face value, even if he may have meant it as a joke. Hard to tell with him sometimes.
    It would definitely be more of the micro side than macro (up to city-wide, regarding Tucson).

    I can say that beat-cop LEO is out; I carry my firearm to defend myself and loved ones, but I'll make an exception only for children (who are generally innocent and too young to defend themselves anyway) and in a few select instances/conditions (mainly, that either one of my loved ones, an innocent child, or myself is in mortal danger). This goes back to why I ruled out firefighting long ago. But I wouldn't mind affecting "change in a department towards guys who do carry", as well as more respect for individual Rights.

    Running for any office is probably out (I tell people that I can be honest because I'm not running for office). Besides, I'm neither "polished" nor a good public speaker.

    I do like the lobbyist idea (I've been known to sit down with antis and make them fence-sitters or better). Maybe I should try to start up a conversation with one of my leftist "representatives" to see if I have talent in that area?

    I can also see myself working to defend someone who has been charged under an unjust law dealing with the RKBA. The way I've replied to my friends is "A Right I defend for you is a Right I defend for myself. Call me selfish, but I will defend them all" (regarding several Rights intertwined with the RKBA).

    As I said, I'm still trying to figure this out since I hadn't really considered it til just under two months ago.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 03-28-2014 at 05:33 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Was probably meant as a joke, but it is the truth.

    What better place to affect change then on the front "lines"? Gives the direct ability to affect change in a department or community. Also will allow you to get directly into the court system and see how it works.

    But you need to figure out what you want to do "for" 2a. Do you want to be the cop that refuses to arrest guys for stuff or who affects change in a department towards guys who do carry? Do you want to be a lawyer/paralegal and represent guys who got pinched for 2a stuff? Or do you want to be a lobbyist or even legislature to actually write/rewrite legislation to better conform with 2a.

    Basically I just listed affect from micro to macro. Just need to figure how what interests you and what you want to "affect" .



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    Interesting, that would be like trying to stop wars by joining the military.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Was probably meant as a joke, but it is the truth.

    <snip>
    Wasn't a joke .... many PDs are seeking cops right now ... they are not demanding AS/BS/PhDs as a prerequisite

    I could be a cop tomorrow (if I dumbed down my answers ~ can't be too smart) if I wanted .. almost anyone can

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Interesting, that would be like trying to stop wars by joining the military.
    If you had done either you'd know that statement doesn't hold water.

    Being a part of an army that gas several hundred thousand people in that is directed by the president..... is not remotely the same as joining a 30 man department run by a chief that does to calls. Heck even a 200+ person dept. Like mine you can make change in policy.

    But anyways...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    If you had done either you'd know that statement doesn't hold water.

    Being a part of an army that gas several hundred thousand people in that is directed by the president..... is not remotely the same as joining a 30 man department run by a chief that does to calls. Heck even a 200+ person dept. Like mine you can make change in policy.

    But anyways...

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    If you haven't spent your whole life in the "service" of the government maybe you'd would think differently....

    Of course that's why I see the PD's getting so much better it's all those single honest people making a difference.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    If you haven't spent your whole life in the "service" of the government maybe you'd would think differently....

    Of course that's why I see the PD's getting so much better it's all those single honest people making a difference.
    Correction: service of my country, state, and most importantly community. I've never done anything to serve "government". I understand you may see it as one is the same but its not remotely.

    The closest you can come to making that stretch of argument would be my time overseas. If you could conclusively prove it had no help or service to our country as a whole. But that's a stretch better left for some other time and place.

    Everything else I've done has been directly serving the people around me. I don't do things just because the "government " says so. I have done and will continue to do things that I truly whole heartedly believe will aid those around me. Period.

    Don't really know what you see any your local PD. Nor do I really care. My premise still stands. If a person was , for example, pro 2a they could work at a PD and eventually make CHIEF or maybe SHERIFF and literally change policies and enact direct change. Last I checked there were a whole slew of sheriffs doing just that in some states.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Not to sound like an attention diva, but I'm kind of lost at this point in regards to which career I should pursue.
    I'm scheduled to speak to an advisor at the college of law, but I'd also like to know if there are more cost-effective means than coming back to the U of A for another 2-3 years.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 03-29-2014 at 03:09 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Correction: service of my country, state, and most importantly community. I've never done anything to serve "government". I understand you may see it as one is the same but its not remotely.

    The closest you can come to making that stretch of argument would be my time overseas. If you could conclusively prove it had no help or service to our country as a whole. But that's a stretch better left for some other time and place.

    Everything else I've done has been directly serving the people around me. I don't do things just because the "government " says so. I have done and will continue to do things that I truly whole heartedly believe will aid those around me. Period.

    Don't really know what you see any your local PD. Nor do I really care. My premise still stands. If a person was , for example, pro 2a they could work at a PD and eventually make CHIEF or maybe SHERIFF and literally change policies and enact direct change. Last I checked there were a whole slew of sheriffs doing just that in some states.

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    You keep using the terms wrong. You served in a public function not a private function so your view is biased toward statism.

    In your view serving your country means that your country is everyone that agrees with your service and those who disagree don't count.
    In your view serving your state would be well exactly that serving the state.
    In your view serving your community means serving everyone who agrees with your service and that those who don't are not part of your community.

    If you arrest a pot head are you serving pot heads? The reality of your "service" is that it is enforcing rules of the state not your community.

    The fact of the matter is you are doing a huge disservice to those who have their property stolen and given to you, who disagree with that theft.

    After all I guess the redcoats were just serving there fellow Brits in the colonies.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 03-29-2014 at 07:08 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Not to sound like an attention diva, but I'm kind of lost at this point in regards to which career I should pursue.
    I'm scheduled to speak to an advisor at the college of law, but I'd also like to know if there are more cost-effective means than coming back to the U of A for another 2-3 years.
    Your not an attention diva. This is "your" thread. As in you started it with a very legitimate question and train of thought.

    If your looking for bang for your buck then check out para legal stuff. Its basically a cheap in to the WHOLE field. You can literally work for a law office and do the leg work to see the inner workings of the process. Your local DA might even employ some paralegals there too. It is a cheap easy way to get your foot in the door to the entire field.

    Most importantly you can get employment from it and recoup some money spent.

    Might take some time and research it. Not sure how the process works in your area or what the demand for them are around there. In the end IMO it wouldn't be time or money wasted. Also check your school to see what they offer for programs. Might just be a certificate program. Or an associates that maybe you could minor or add on to your other degree.



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    What is the quickest path I can take to get a degree in some form of law-oriented career?
    WHOSE "law"??????

    The "law" of a tyrannical government trampling the RIGHTS of human beings every day? Or the natural law that is afforded to every "citizen" of this planet as a living breathing human being?



    "Law" is very much open for interpretation.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    You keep using the terms wrong. You served in a public function not a private function so your view is biased toward statism.

    In your view serving your country means that your country is everyone that agrees with your service and those who disagree don't count.
    In your view serving your state would be well exactly that serving the state.
    In your view serving your community means serving everyone who agrees with your service and that those who don't are not part of your community.

    If you arrest a pot head are you serving pot heads? The reality of your "service" is that it is enforcing rules of the state not your community.

    The fact of the matter is you are doing a huge disservice to those who have their property stolen and given to you, who disagree with that theft.

    After all I guess the redcoats were just serving there fellow Brits in the colonies.
    Wow... your off base on this one my friend.

    A soldier can and does deploy to defend EVERY citizen..you can hate them, the government, the military, etc. But they are still protecting said person whether you love them or hate them. You can protest and picket all you want, but it doesn't change their job or the net affect.

    Let me give a clearer example. After Pearl harbor we entered WW II with troops. Our guys went over there and fought and died to protect this country from further invasion. Do you think EVERY citizen agreed? I doubt it. But.... every citizen that may have been pissed and disagreed was still just as safe as everyone that did agree.

    What you fail to realize is whether you agree as an individual doesn't take away from serving the community. That's your issue. You fail to realize there is something bigger then you and more important. The people around you that make a community, state, country.

    In my view enforcing state laws helps the group of people that live in my jurisdiction. You bet your a$$ the guy I arrest for DUI hates me and disagrees. But the rest of the community appreciates it because they realize he couldve killed someone.

    Of course the gang member hates me for arresting him (sometimes) and disagree with everything i do. But the rest of the community literally comes up and says "thanks for getting these guys out of here".

    See the trend? The community is more important. The group the whole is more important then that one gang member who's mad he can't sell his crack on the corner. The guy who had 6 too many beers and can't walk but says he's fine to drive. He's pissed he is getting locked up.... oh well. The other normal people driving on the road are more important then his wanting to be drunk.

    Your blind to the fact that the "state" can be and is made up of real living people. Im not talking about rogue government agencies that just perpetuate more agencies and other crap. I'm talking about when someone calls for help you help them.

    Whether its at the national level hey go to x country they are a threat (maybe)

    State level- hey there is a community without power your activated go cut trees to get them.power or sand bag for floods.

    Community- hey we have a problem with drug dealers shooting competition. Go get them.

    That is serving. And plenty of guys on this forum have done some version of it. There is PRIDE in serving someone other then yourself.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    If you are arrogant go into the law field. Most in the law field actually think they are the smartest people walking the earth.

    Defense attorneys usually don't make a lot of money. If they do make a reasonable living then they are not giving their clients there full attention. Will work a plea deal.

    It also depends on if you are a detail person or a big picture person.

    Believe it or not the majority of law school graduates never go into the law field.

    I know a number of attorneys and most say if they new how corrupt the law field was when they started they would have picked another profession.

    Good luck.....

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Wow... your off base on this one my friend.

    A soldier can and does deploy to defend EVERY citizen..you can hate them, the government, the military, etc. But they are still protecting said person whether you love them or hate them. You can protest and picket all you want, but it doesn't change their job or the net affect.

    Let me give a clearer example. After Pearl harbor we entered WW II with troops. Our guys went over there and fought and died to protect this country from further invasion. Do you think EVERY citizen agreed? I doubt it. But.... every citizen that may have been pissed and disagreed was still just as safe as everyone that did agree.

    What you fail to realize is whether you agree as an individual doesn't take away from serving the community. That's your issue. You fail to realize there is something bigger then you and more important. The people around you that make a community, state, country.

    In my view enforcing state laws helps the group of people that live in my jurisdiction. You bet your a$$ the guy I arrest for DUI hates me and disagrees. But the rest of the community appreciates it because they realize he couldve killed someone.

    Of course the gang member hates me for arresting him (sometimes) and disagree with everything i do. But the rest of the community literally comes up and says "thanks for getting these guys out of here".

    See the trend? The community is more important. The group the whole is more important then that one gang member who's mad he can't sell his crack on the corner. The guy who had 6 too many beers and can't walk but says he's fine to drive. He's pissed he is getting locked up.... oh well. The other normal people driving on the road are more important then his wanting to be drunk.

    Your blind to the fact that the "state" can be and is made up of real living people. Im not talking about rogue government agencies that just perpetuate more agencies and other crap. I'm talking about when someone calls for help you help them.

    Whether its at the national level hey go to x country they are a threat (maybe)

    State level- hey there is a community without power your activated go cut trees to get them.power or sand bag for floods.

    Community- hey we have a problem with drug dealers shooting competition. Go get them.

    That is serving. And plenty of guys on this forum have done some version of it. There is PRIDE in serving someone other then yourself.

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    Off topic, so I won't continue but you didn't refute anything I said you just kept up the same biased statist opinion.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Your not an attention diva. This is "your" thread. As in you started it with a very legitimate question and train of thought.

    If your looking for bang for your buck then check out para legal stuff. Its basically a cheap in to the WHOLE field. You can literally work for a law office and do the leg work to see the inner workings of the process. Your local DA might even employ some paralegals there too. It is a cheap easy way to get your foot in the door to the entire field.

    Most importantly you can get employment from it and recoup some money spent.

    Might take some time and research it. Not sure how the process works in your area or what the demand for them are around there. In the end IMO it wouldn't be time or money wasted. Also check your school to see what they offer for programs. Might just be a certificate program. Or an associates that maybe you could minor or add on to your other degree.



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    I've heard that too. I believe Grim_Night had the same advice after the whole fiasco with a hyper-controlling, anti-Freedom school VP. If I recall, he decided to switch from something like computer engineering (I mean no disrespect, I just forgot what he said since it's been a while) to a profession where he could defend the 2A and people's RKBA.

    Thanks Primus.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    WHOSE "law"??????

    The "law" of a tyrannical government trampling the RIGHTS of human beings every day? Or the natural law that is afforded to every "citizen" of this planet as a living breathing human being?



    "Law" is very much open for interpretation.
    I gather you've read Frederic Bastiat?
    It would be "law", with a lowercase "l" instead of "Law" (which I reserve for God-given/Natural Rights of the individual). Put into spoken words (imagine I'm sitting in front of you at an OC lunch), I would say: "I'd like a profession in 'law' to help restore 'The Law', if that makes sense."
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 03-30-2014 at 02:21 AM. Reason: Forgot to type in "words"
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  20. #20
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    If you are arrogant go into the law field. Most in the law field actually think they are the smartest people walking the earth.

    Defense attorneys usually don't make a lot of money. If they do make a reasonable living then they are not giving their clients there full attention. Will work a plea deal.

    It also depends on if you are a detail person or a big picture person.

    Believe it or not the majority of law school graduates never go into the law field.

    I know a number of attorneys and most say if they new how corrupt the law field was when they started they would have picked another profession.

    Good luck.....
    Yeah, I'm arrogant. At 21 years young, I also consider myself the best pistolero north of the Rio Grande but south of Marana, AZ. In all seriousness though, any sense I had of somehow being "above" the puny and flawed human race was dispelled. If not by classroom experience, then by real-world experience.
    Besides, if I was one of the smartest people on Earth, don't you think I'd have already tried out for Jeopardy or something to increase the size of my "fun fund" by several magnitudes of order?

    I'm not looking to make a lot of money ("I ain't got no... Love for money. Money can't buy me Love). Sorry, I couldn't help it.
    I just need a profession that I can actually be passionate about and can tell someone about at a BBQ without groaning or beginning my reply with a heavy sigh. It goes without saying that I can look at myself in the mirror and can get sleep at night without needing the "midnight martini". As long as it pays the bills, puts food on the table, and occasionally leaves something for my "fun fund", I should be alright.
    The whole corruption thing is definitely a depressing reality, so I'm starting to like the paralegal idea. At any rate, one should be the change they wish to see in the world, right?

    So just one question: where do all those law school graduates end up, if not in the law field?
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    I gather you've read Frederic Bastiat?
    It would be "law", with a lowercase "l" instead of "Law" (which I reserve for God-given/Natural Rights of the individual). Put into spoken words (imagine I'm sitting in front of you at an OC lunch), I would say: "I'd like a profession in 'law' to help restore 'The Law', if that makes sense."
    +1 same reason I considered running for office.

    There can be no such thing as a "lawmaker" according to Bastiat and those who understand natural law.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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