Open Carry on bicycles.

Small_Arms_Collector · Mar 31, 2014

Thought this might help:

MC: 257.79

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949

257.79 “Vehicle” defined.
Sec. 79.

“Vehicle” means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices exclusively moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of 1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949 ;-- Am. 1976, Act 439, Imd. Eff. Jan. 13, 1977 ;-- Am. 1978, Act 568, Eff. Jan. 6, 1979 ;-- Am. 1992, Act 134, Eff. Oct. 1, 1992

TheQ · Mar 31, 2014

But it's not defined in MCL 750.227. A court might use this definition, another definition found within the MCLs, or a dictionary. A bicycle would certainly meet the dictionary definition.

FreeInAZ · Mar 31, 2014

Mike Stilly - got a group together years back and rode around OCing... no issues. However - cops don't like to mess with groups unless they really need or want to. So IMHO without a MI CPL or equivalent from another state, one risks much doing a bicycle ride in MI while armed.

xmanhockey7 · Mar 31, 2014

The age old debate.

Michigander · Mar 31, 2014

FreeInAZ said:
Mike Stilly - got a group together years back and rode around OCing... no issues. However - cops don't like to mess with groups unless they really need or want to. So IMHO without a MI CPL or equivalent from another state, one risks much doing a bicycle ride in MI while armed.

Keep in mind though, that event (especially the bicycle portion of it) was something of a sick joke. I don't think it was even a mile, and it was police supervised, as in they were driving around as we did it, and if I remember right having cops stationed at various corners. I went along for about 30 seconds, then turned around and went back to the pavilion. You could do a bike ride, or you could coddle the egos of a bunch of cops from a repetitiously criminally abusive department. The bicycle ride part of that event was the latter. (The rest of it was a well done picnic, mike even had custom made T shirts for it)

xmanhockey7 said:
The age old debate.

Yep, I seem to recall it was the first thread I ever posted here.

FreeInAZ · Apr 1, 2014

Nightmare said:
I have analyzed states vehicle codes for a bicyclist rights advocacy organization, LABReform.org. By their standards and that I used, it is an automatic fail for a state to not recognize a bicycle as a vehicle. "Cyclists fare best when seen as and acting as drivers of vehicles."

Maybe so, but in MI it forces them to pay roughly $300 for a state approved permission slip when all is said & done. This for the "luxury" of being able to defend ones self while taking a bicycle ride...

TheQ · Apr 1, 2014

FreeInAZ said:
Maybe so, but in MI it forces them to pay roughly $300 for a state approved permission slip when all is said & done. This for the "luxury" of being able to defend ones self while taking a bicycle ride...

At least Michigan is a single party consent state. Is Arizona?

FreeInAZ · Apr 2, 2014

Yes - including public officials & LE. For such an all knowing person...never mind ...

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/arizona-recording-law

Sheldon · Apr 2, 2014

Humm aren't bicycles non motorized and hence not part of that law....

Now what was the ruling on ATV"S I read about some time back, (same line of reasoning) you are not enclosed, OC ATV, snow mobiles, public lands... damn getting old sucks...

N side note Galco shoulder rig for bicycle XDM .40 with spare mags.... tends to stay put and not flop around when properly used....

FreeInAZ · Apr 2, 2014

Sheldon said:
Humm aren't bicycles non motorized and hence not part of that law....

Now what was the ruling on ATV"S I read about some time back, (same line of reasoning) you are not enclosed, OC ATV, snow mobiles, public lands... damn getting old sucks...

N side note Galco shoulder rig for bicycle XDM .40 with spare mags.... tends to stay put and not flop around when properly used....

TheQ said:
But it's not defined in MCL 750.227. A court might use this definition, another definition found within the MCLs, or a dictionary. A bicycle would certainly meet the dictionary definition.

Small_Arms_Collector said:
Thought this might help:

MC: 257.79

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949

257.79 “Vehicle” defined.
Sec. 79.

“Vehicle” means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices exclusively moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of 1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949 ;-- Am. 1976, Act 439, Imd. Eff. Jan. 13, 1977 ;-- Am. 1978, Act 568, Eff. Jan. 6, 1979 ;-- Am. 1992, Act 134, Eff. Oct. 1, 1992

Sheldon - there in lies the problems. Multiple choices for a prosecutor & judge/jury to understand and apply to a OCer. Hell, even a pair of roller skates "could" be considered a vehicle under parts of MCL! Thus non CPL holding OCers in MI are left doing the hush puppy express or roll the dice on becoming a criminal for what is completely legal in many other states.

budlight · Apr 2, 2014

FreeInAZ said:
Sheldon - there in lies the problems. Multiple choices for a prosecutor & judge/jury to understand and apply to a OCer. Hell, even a pair of roller skates "could" be considered a vehicle under parts of MCL! Thus non CPL holding OCers in MI are left doing the hush puppy express or roll the dice on becoming a criminal for what is completely legal in many other states.

This is why everyone in Michigan who carries should get a CPL. Once you have that, there is not a lot left open to interpretation. I realize the cost and the hassle, but it saves a lot of what if’s down the road.

TheQ · Apr 3, 2014

FreeInAZ said:
Yes - including public officials & LE. For such an all knowing person...never mind ...

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/arizona-recording-law

There was an item recently that was freedom oriented that AZ fell short on -/ I forget what ATM

Golden Eagle · Apr 3, 2014

Sheldon said:
Humm aren't bicycles non motorized and hence not part of that law....

Now what was the ruling on ATV"S I read about some time back, (same line of reasoning) you are not enclosed, OC ATV, snow mobiles, public lands... damn getting old sucks...

N side note Galco shoulder rig for bicycle XDM .40 with spare mags.... tends to stay put and not flop around when properly used....

Sorry no... the word "motorized" isn't used in MI pistol laws.

I focus on the words "...in a vehicle..." 750.227 (2)

Sheldon · Apr 7, 2014

Golden Eagle said:
Sorry no... the word "motorized" isn't used in MI pistol laws.

I focus on the words "...in a vehicle..." 750.227 (2)

Key word "IN" and then here is "ON" such as bicycle, ATV, Snowmobile, which is what that ruling was based on, damn I wish I could remember where I read that, should have tagged it!!!

The base of the argument was you can be in a car, or in a pickup, but it is On a Bicycle, ATV...

SpringerXDacp · Apr 7, 2014

Sheldon said:
Key word "IN" and then here is "ON" such as bicycle, ATV, Snowmobile, which is what that ruling was based on, damn I wish I could remember where I read that, should have tagged it!!!

The base of the argument was you can be in a car, or in a pickup, but it is On a Bicycle, ATV...

This may or may not be the thread as there are other threads from around that time which included quoted statements (emails) from a then MSP, Sgt. Deasy.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?42053-Open-carry-on-a-boat-an-snowmobile-motorcycle

22Luke36 · Apr 16, 2014

You can be charged with DUI, so I guess you could be charged with CCW.

budlight said:
This is why everyone in Michigan who carries should get a CPL. .

FAIL.

Big Gay Al · Apr 22, 2014

budlight said:
This is why everyone in Michigan who carries should get a CPL...

At least until such time as the law is changed. Hopefully before I die.

22Luke36 · Apr 22, 2014

Big Gay Al said:
At least until such time as the law is changed. Hopefully before I die.

Unless thats what we are willing to do, it won't. Go Nevada :monkey

lapeer20m · Apr 23, 2014

Is a horse a vehicle?

(Insert stick poking emoticon here)

This has been argued to death in the past with no final resolution.

Most experts agree that you should not open carry on a bicycle or motorcycle unless you have a cpl.

I agree with the above statement but feel that the wording of the law does not prohibit such activity because the pistol is not IN THE VEHICLE.

Others have argued that a court case involving a felon that concealed a pistol in the space under the gas tank and above the engine of a motorcycle was found guilty of possessing the concealed pistol within the area of the motorcycle and this means that open carry on a motorcycle would be prohibited.

In the end, the gamble is too risky. If found guilty it is a 5 year felony. So far Nobody wants to roll the dice on that. The best advice is to only open carry on a motorcycle or bicycle if you have a cpl.

22Luke36 · Apr 23, 2014

If people are unwilling to ride a bike and go to court for a fight, all this talk about mounting up and earning our freedom someday if someone else starts it for us must be, fantasy?

Open Carry on bicycles.

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

New member

Regular Member

Michigan Moderator

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member