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Thread: U of A riot on 29 March, students and Tucson PD clash

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    U of A riot on 29 March, students and Tucson PD clash

    Thread split. This event did not have anything to do with OC per se, so I decided a new thread might be best.
    Original thread: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...13#post2048413

    This past Saturday there was a "riot" on University after the UA lost to Wisconsin. Pepper balls, pepper canisters, and bean bag rounds were fired, glass bottles were thrown, etc. Anyways, the funny thing is, I'd gone home to drop my things off and was all set to go into the area while OCing, and I had this strange feeling that I just shouldn't step outside. Spooky when I found out what had happened.
    My biggest gripe is how my age group will be/ is being portrayed, since this gives more ammunition to the antis who keep opposing lawful CC on campus because "college students are stupid" (the words of our former UA president, by the way).

    Update (9th of November, 2014):
    Here is a working video of the incident in question (assault at 20 sec mark):
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 11-09-2014 at 11:45 PM. Reason: Update 2014/11/09
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    @Rusty - some of the stupidest people I've ever met were on college grounds. Sadly, they were mostly admins & faculty.

    Here's an example of police going way off track in afore mentioned fiasco. One person gets their goat, so this genius with a badge decides to whale on a innocent girl. Can someone say steroid abuse?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B7Kv9R7b3A
    I hadn't seen that video. Absolutely disgusting. She wasn't even looking at the cop, and I doubt she weighs more than 110 lbs soaking wet. Hopefully she files suit.

    I'd mostly just been looking at the photos, though I did see the video where a guy stands right in the center with his arms out and is rushed by Tucson PD. If you look in the background, it seems like a small Molotov cocktail may have been thrown from the student side.

    Just about the only good things I can see coming from this:
    1) Students learn what Warren v. District of Columbia already confirmed.
    2) Students are more mindful of abuse of power as well as use of excessive force as a real thing that CAN affect them if they do nothing.
    3) Students question why all this tacticrap is being handed out to police in American cities, on American soil, for use against unarmed citizens.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Just found this article about the guy that was rushed by TPD (NOTE: the images in the link are not for the squeamish):
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5062842.html

    As the lone man approached seemingly taunting police with his arms out, he took several pepper balls to the chest before a group of officers swarmed and detained him. Watch the video above to see how it went down. After the man was released, he showed off the damage done to his body.

    It's not pretty.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 03-31-2014 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Link
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    i see your riot over a football loss and raise you yesterday's Albuquerque's riot over local police violence against the citizens of area...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbqzQAc1OOk

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    i see your riot over a football loss and raise you yesterday's Albuquerque's riot over local police violence against the citizens of area...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbqzQAc1OOk

    ipse
    We cannot allow a PEACEFUL demonstration !

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Update od sorts

    The unidentified woman has filed a complaint that is being investigated by internal affairs, Chief Roberto Villasenor said, adding "that kind of force being used" is worrisome.

    http://www.abc15.com/news/region-cen...?autoplay=true
    Worrisome.....hmm.....worrisome.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    My biggest gripe is how my age group will be/ is being portrayed, since this gives more ammunition to the antis who keep opposing lawful CC on campus because "college students are stupid" (the words of our former UA president, by the way).
    All this makes it very tough to convince legislators that adults should be able to carry on campus. All they see is boozers and druggies. Toss in a riot over nothing more than a sporting event, and they pretty much have all they need to not support Campus Carry.

    Fred

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    All this makes it very tough to convince legislators that adults should be able to carry on campus. All they see is boozers and druggies. Toss in a riot over nothing more than a sporting event, and they pretty much have all they need to not support Campus Carry.

    Fred
    Yet, suspected cop brutality, documented it seems, goes unnoticed? Odd that thug cops get a pass by our legislators but drunk kids, most of whom are not violating the law could be used to deny carry on a campus.

    Orders to disperse were pretty much meaningless cuz the cops did not disperse anyone. But, one or two cops did not hesitate to assault otherwise peaceful college kids.

    Worrisome indeed.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    All this makes it very tough to convince legislators that adults should be able to carry on campus. All they see is boozers and druggies. Toss in a riot over nothing more than a sporting event, and they pretty much have all they need to not support Campus Carry.

    Fred
    From some personal accounts I've been reading it was a ton of people being wild, but it wasn't a riot until tacti-cops arrived and started inciting them. It sounded no worse than a night of mardi gras until the cops came into the picture and started throwing their weight around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Worrisome.....hmm.....worrisome.
    Too bad it was not his daughter...he would be more than worried

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baked on Grease View Post
    From some personal accounts I've been reading it was a ton of people being wild, but it wasn't a riot until tacti-cops arrived and started inciting them. It sounded no worse than a night of mardi gras until the cops came into the picture and started throwing their weight around.
    This is virtually always the case.

    If you discount Oakland, it is always the case.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Yet, suspected cop brutality, documented it seems, goes unnoticed? Odd that thug cops get a pass by our legislators but drunk kids, most of whom are not violating the law could be used to deny carry on a campus.
    Stupid behavior on the part of students does not get erased by bad behavior on the part of law enforcement. That's getting into "two wrongs make a right" territory.

    As us old farts (I'm 66) are trying to make the case for Campus Carry at the legislature, it's disheartening when those affected don't get involved, or bother to show up at the legislature, or even write a letter. And, when a bunch of drunk yahoos confirm everyone's stereotype (Perception = Reality) of immaturity, it's really tough to say stand up at the Capitol in a hearing and say that regardless of how the majority appears to act, they really are responsible and mature enough to arm themselves.

    As an official old fart, I remember when turning 18 meant being an adult. Now, I'm reading that you have to be near 30 to be considered an adult. That really makes for a tough sell when it comes to legislation.

    /rant off
    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 04-02-2014 at 12:48 PM.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    I heard a snip of a radio interview with the TPD chief this morning. He says we only see a small (implies inaccurate) clip of what was actually going on. He says the officers had ordered students to leave. What he does not say is - that's exactly what the girl was trying to do. He also hints that the officer may have feared for his fellow officers safety as she was behind (some distance) their line ... More LE deflection, if walking down a street and obeying police orders (lawful or unlawful) is enough to get you beaten or worse...we really are headed towards being a police state IMHO. The video clearly shows the officer gave no warning for the girl to go another direction- he simply pummels her with his baton!

    With the chief making these comments this morning ...I doubt there will be a unbiased investigation on the part of TPD. Let's hope they prove me wrong.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 04-01-2014 at 04:41 PM.
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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    He also hints that the officer may have feared for his fellow officers safety
    As long as they get home safely every night that's all that counts, right? (/sarcasm off)

    Fred

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    Stupid behavior on the part of students does not get erased by bad behavior on the part of law enforcement. That's getting into "two wrongs make a right" territory.

    As us old farts (I'm 66) are trying to make the case for Campus Carry at the legislature, it's disheartening when those affected don't get involved, or bother to show up at the legislature, or even write a letter. And, when a bunch of drunk yahoos confirm everyone's stereotype (Perception = Reality) of immaturity, it's really tough to say stand up at the Capitol in a hearing and say that regardless of how the majority appears to act, they really are responsible and mature enough to arm themselves.

    As an official old fart, I remember when turning 18 meant being an adult. Now, I'm reading that you have to be near 30 to be considered and adult. That really makes for a tough sell when it comes to legislation.

    /rant off
    Fred
    I hear ya. But the wrongs of the state (those few cops) is what needs to be highlighted. Hammered home if you will. The professional cop must be held to a higher standard. equating the two "wrongs" is merely a deflection.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I hear ya. But the wrongs of the state (those few cops) is what needs to be highlighted. Hammered home if you will.
    I guess it boils down to "highlighted" or "hammered home" by who?

    Fred

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    Regular Member The Trickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    As an official old fart, I remember when turning 18 meant being an adult. Now, I'm reading that you have to be near 30 to be considered and adult. That really makes for a tough sell when it comes to legislation.
    Colleges and universities help to exacerbate the immaturity of their students by treating them like they are children and having them sit through caring and sharing sessions in class. I swear, if they'd cut all the piffle out of college a person would be able to obtain a degree in less than a year rather than four.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    As expected, the officer (despite his recorded, viral, thug-like behaviour) acted reasonably.

    http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/artic...-go-unpunished

    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Wildcat
    The Pima County Attorney’s Office decided against the prosecution of Tucson Police Department officer Joel Mann for violently shoving a UA student during the Elite Eight clash. The act was caught on a video that later went viral.

    Pima County Chief Criminal Deputy Kellie Johnson told the Arizona Daily Star that her office declined to prosecute because it would be unable to prove criminal intent in court.

    “It’s not a criminal intent if you’re using it to maintain public order,” she said.

    SNIP...

    The argument that an act committed “to maintain public order” is unprosecutable seems like a transparent attempt to protect the police from prosecution in almost any circumstance. TPD officers maintain public order. That’s what they do. But we need to be able to evaluate whether they choose the best and least harmful methods to achieve that goal — and when they don’t, we need to be able to hold them accountable.

    The decision comes in the context of a slew of national controversies about police violence and militarization. From the Ferguson, Mo., officer who shot unarmed Michael Brown, to the New York City officer whose chokehold killed Eric Garner and the officers who shot an Albuquerque, N.M., homeless man in the back for illegally camping, America is currently confronting its unfortunate habit of allowing police to operate with impunity.
    Seems like some people are late to notice the bolded part above.
    Also, I especially like the implied Carte Blanche for excessive use of force: as long as it is to maintain public order, of course.

    Also, sorry for posting this about a week and a half late.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 11-09-2014 at 03:51 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Video of incident? Original looks like it was removed due to a copyright claim???

    Also would a lack of criminal intent be a valid defense in a civilian case?
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Video (first 22 seconds show no action from the assaulted female student):


    Here's another in case the linked video goes down (from Alex Jones; incident occurs at 1:00 mark):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5EDc99dn2M
    And another
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5kkfhsn18E
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 11-09-2014 at 11:43 PM. Reason: Links
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    U of A riot on 29 March, students and Tucson PD clash

    Hey, so if I rob a bank because there are poor people threatening to riot because they lack money...and I give them the money, I did it to maintain order...so I won't be prosecuted in Pima County AZ? Good to know! Sarcasm off now. What a cluster pleep in Tucson!
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 11-10-2014 at 12:49 AM.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The professional cop must be held to a higher standard.
    This! If an officer cannot handle a girl that size without throwing her into a bench, he (they) need to reevaluate whether or not he needs to be employed as a police officer any longer. I have the same opinion in regards to the over use of tasers. If I had an opinion in court, that officer wouldn't have a leg to stand on if he tried to justify is use of force as a safety issue. He obviously felt she was safe enough to leave her lay across the bench after shoving her.

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