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Thread: Today I Was Turned Into a Criminal By My Government

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    Today I Was Turned Into a Criminal By My Government

    Today I was turned into a criminal by my congress and my president.

    Did I hurt someone ? No

    Did I steal something ? No

    What did I do ? Nothing !!

    I became a criminal not for something I did but rather for something that I DIDNT do.

    I purchase health insurance so now I am a criminal.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Laws don't define crime. Aggression is the sole determinant of criminality.

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    Can you cite what criminal law you think you would be violating for not having insurance?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    That's not a crime for not buying insurance. And, in fact, the very source you cite says the following: "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure."
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    That's not a crime for not buying insurance. And, in fact, the very source you cite says the following: "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure."
    The government is not telling the truth.

    Obamacare itself did not add a specific code or statute to the federal Title 18. However, its a CRIME to not pay the IRS.

    Lets see what happens when someone doesn't pay their fine to the IRS.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    That's not a crime for not buying insurance. And, in fact, the very source you cite says the following: "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure."
    "timely pay" is not the same as "will not" pay.

    timely = late.....sorry.

    will not = up yours, I ain't gunna pay!
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    That's not a crime for not buying insurance. And, in fact, the very source you cite says the following: "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure."

    Sure...........


    Don't pay a "penalty" to the IRS and see what happens to you.

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    IMHO it is foolish for anyone not to have health ins. because they hate the Pres. Kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    "If you think you're hurting Obama by not getting health insurance, trust me, he'll be fine either way.
    John Legend

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Massive nonsequitur.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    IMHO it is foolish for anyone not to have health ins. because they hate the Pres. Kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    "If you think you're hurting Obama by not getting health insurance, trust me, he'll be fine either way.
    John Legend
    Opinion based on emotion not fact, accusation without evidence to justify the accusation. Again, typical liberal, drawing from the liberal playbook.

    Many of our fellow citizens had health insurance before Obamacare who no longer have health insurance. I personally know of five. They did nothing to warrant their current situation, that is all on Obama. High irony, all five of those folks voted for Obama.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Opinion based on emotion not fact, accusation without evidence to justify the accusation. Again, typical liberal, drawing from the liberal playbook.

    Many of our fellow citizens had health insurance before Obamacare who no longer have health insurance. I personally know of five. They did nothing to warrant their current situation, that is all on Obama. High irony, all five of those folks voted for Obama.

    Plus the fact that if something may be foolish it doesn't justify state interference.

    Also foolish is a personal based opinion. Many may have a different opinion for many different reasons.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    IMHO it is foolish for anyone not to have health ins. because they hate the Pres. Kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    "If you think you're hurting Obama by not getting health insurance, trust me, he'll be fine either way.
    John Legend
    Actually almost every study shows its foolish to have insurance if you are under 50 yrs old.

    I haven't had insurance for 21 years. Guess what I do........I actually save some money every year for emergency health care costs.

    What if I have a catastrophic medical event ? I did. The bill came to $91,000. However, every state and hospital offers a cash payment option that matches Medicare reimbursement rates. I paid $8,200 total.

    If I had purchased a health insurance plan for the last 21 years at an average price of $6,000 per year I would have paid $126,000 for insurance PLUS the costs of the actual care.

    Since I didn't have insurance I paid cash and averaged about $500 per year on health care costs. That comes to $10,500 plus the cost of the "major event" comes to about $19,000.

    So lets see....

    Having health insurance = $126,000

    Not having insurance = $19,000

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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    Actually almost every study shows its foolish to have insurance if you are under 50 yrs old.

    I haven't had insurance for 21 years. Guess what I do........I actually save some money every year for emergency health care costs.

    What if I have a catastrophic medical event ? I did. The bill came to $91,000. However, every state and hospital offers a cash payment option that matches Medicare reimbursement rates. I paid $8,200 total.

    If I had purchased a health insurance plan for the last 21 years at an average price of $6,000 per year I would have paid $126,000 for insurance PLUS the costs of the actual care.

    Since I didn't have insurance I paid cash and averaged about $500 per year on health care costs. That comes to $10,500 plus the cost of the "major event" comes to about $19,000.

    So lets see....

    Having health insurance = $126,000

    Not having insurance = $19,000
    Excellent post.

    THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    That's not a crime for not buying insurance. And, in fact, the very source you cite says the following: "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure."
    You asked, I provided. You no likely. From same tree IMO. Oh well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    "timely pay" is not the same as "will not" pay.

    timely = late.....sorry.

    will not = up yours, I ain't gunna pay!
    The wording says, in short: "failing to timely pay won't result in criminal charges." It doesn't say "if a user timely pays they won't be charged criminally." There are civil penalties. Wage garnishment, automatic deduction from money the government would otherwise be returning to you. Yet not criminal charges.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth
    You asked, I provided.
    You provided evidence that it wouldn't be a crime. Thanks.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    Actually almost every study shows its foolish to have insurance if you are under 50 yrs old.

    I haven't had insurance for 21 years. Guess what I do........I actually save some money every year for emergency health care costs.

    What if I have a catastrophic medical event ? I did. The bill came to $91,000. However, every state and hospital offers a cash payment option that matches Medicare reimbursement rates. I paid $8,200 total.

    If I had purchased a health insurance plan for the last 21 years at an average price of $6,000 per year I would have paid $126,000 for insurance PLUS the costs of the actual care.

    Since I didn't have insurance I paid cash and averaged about $500 per year on health care costs. That comes to $10,500 plus the cost of the "major event" comes to about $19,000.

    So lets see....

    Having health insurance = $126,000

    Not having insurance = $19,000
    Thank you! I tell people this - they look at me like I have two heads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    The wording says, in short: "failing to timely pay won't result in criminal charges." It doesn't say "if a user timely pays they won't be charged criminally." There are civil penalties. Wage garnishment, automatic deduction from money the government would otherwise be returning to you. Yet not criminal charges.

    Increasing the amount of CHAINS OF SLAVERY the .gov already has on every Amecian citizen who chooses to support themselves by exchanging their LIFE (time, skills, labor.) in return for monetary payment.

    Tawnos you seem to be excusing and condoning a form of slavery/theft/coersion/etc.!


    The IRS is a flat out EVIL entity and the moment I heard it was to be the ENFORCER for "healthcare reform", I knew it would be MANY steps backward not a leap forward for the People of this country.
    Last edited by Jeff. State; 04-02-2014 at 06:25 PM.

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    Regular Member MaxPower's Avatar
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    King George III would be proud of our current government. They figured out how to tax us for NOT buying something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
    King George III would be proud of our current government. They figured out how to tax us for NOT buying something.
    Yeah, and I love how people think that filing a lawsuit (to the same gov't) is going to offer relief. They sound like subjects of the British in 1775.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
    King George III would be proud of our current government. They figured out how to tax us for NOT buying something.

    And the Founding Fathers would be dry heaving over a list of grievances the American people gladly prostrate themselves to the Federal Government over.


    What WE as American's SUBMIT to, dwarfs what the Revolutionary war was fought over.


    A nation of sheep.
    Last edited by Jeff. State; 04-02-2014 at 07:47 PM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Not all the founders. If it weren't for those radical, anarchistic, extremist the "anti-federalist" we wouldn't have the BOR or many of the restrictions put upon the Feds by the constitution.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    [QUOTE=onus;2049022 every state and hospital offers a cash payment option that matches Medicare reimbursement rates. [/QUOTE]

    Source?

    I know that many do, but not all. What would you have done if that full cost were billed to you and the hospital wasn't willing to negotiate down to the price you could afford?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Source?

    I know that many do, but not all. What would you have done if that full cost were billed to you and the hospital wasn't willing to negotiate down to the price you could afford?
    I would have said... "bill me just like you bill all of the 12 million illegal aliens in California".

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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    I would have said... "bill me just like you bill all of the 12 million illegal aliens in California".
    So, you're saying you would accept socialization of medical treatment if it would bankrupt you?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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