sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
+1
Asks for cites for his misdirection and makes the comment it's his last post, so he is going to run away from the argument that he hasn't countered.
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Today I Was Turned Into a Criminal By My Government
- Thread starter onus
- Start date
+1
Asks for cites for his misdirection and makes the comment it's his last post, so he is going to run away from the argument that he hasn't countered.
To give credit where credit is due, the ACA WAS a Republican idea in the first place ( http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2010/february/23/gop-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx ) and it was a white Republican Governor who proved that it could work (a.k.a. RomneyCare).
When Mitt Romney installed it in Massachusetts, it worked quite well and everybody was pleased. But then Barack Obama came along and embraced it, so all good and true conservatives had to conclude that it was not only a terrible idea in practical terms but a vile and wicked plot to rob Americans of their freedom and plunge the country into (insert your fear here).
The GOTPs nightmare is that millions of people begin to get affordable health insurance, the Medicaid program expands and people who have never had health insurance in their lives finally are able to go into a doctor. For the Republicans, this is a nightmare. Imagine, if the United States government does something for ordinary people and not just billionaires.
When Mitt Romney installed it in Massachusetts, it worked quite well and everybody was pleased. But then Barack Obama came along and embraced it, so all good and true conservatives had to conclude that it was not only a terrible idea in practical terms but a vile and wicked plot to rob Americans of their freedom and plunge the country into (insert your fear here).
The GOTPs nightmare is that millions of people begin to get affordable health insurance, the Medicaid program expands and people who have never had health insurance in their lives finally are able to go into a doctor. For the Republicans, this is a nightmare. Imagine, if the United States government does something for ordinary people and not just billionaires.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
^^^^^^^ So? Who cares what side of the pretend two parties thought it up?
OC for ME
Regular Member
Aside from the fact that a liberal estimate of the "good" that they claim Obamacare does.....or will/should do, there has not been provide any hard data that confirms the allegations coming from the liberals on the number of "insured" let alone the number who have actually paid.
"Show me the data" is the clarion call.....or should be anyway. Though, liberals are more than happy to dance around that clarion call.
Hell, Harry Reid has even blamed inept Interwebz users for the troubles with the Obamacare.
stealthyeliminator
Regular Member
Why I clarified with, I would agree that God made the world to work best when his law is followed, and so as morality is adhered to more the world works better... But, in individual cases, no, the 'right' choice is not nearly always the most 'beneficial' choice.
Your challenge is a difficult, if not impossible one, imo. Even if there is a correlation, that correlation doesn't indicate what he was proposing.. The way I see it, he was essentially denying the existence of morality (as most people would understand it) and suggesting that the idea of morality was fabricated from observance of what "works" and what doesn't "work." But, you cannot use correlation between what is agreed upon to be morality, and what is shown proven to work, to prove that suggestion. Correlation does not equate to causation. http://xkcd.com/552/
JoeSparky
Centurion
This I agree with.
And for any person to revise it is call rationalization.... or an attempt by man to violate God's Law and try to feel good about it.
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Primus
Regular Member
Only problem is I wasn't around when god supposedly told someone his laws. So I have to assume when you, another person no better then I, tells me "this is what his laws are trust me". Even better we have to assume whoever told you, since you didn't come up with it yourself, is also correct and telling the truth. Etc. Etc.
For me, that's a big problem. But that's just my opinion. I could attempt to write a book with it in it and get you to follow me and teach your kids that its the truth. But I won't.
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georg jetson
Regular Member
Where it is moral(not natural instinct) for us to stand and fight, yet our instincts tell us to run in the face of overwhelming odds.
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stealthyeliminator
Regular Member
Excellent
georg jetson
Regular Member
Your posts don't do much to inspire confidence. I can't imagine your book would be much different.
That was meant as a joke. There are many contemporary books that deal with our human condition...
We do what we don't think we should and we don't do what we think we should.
If you're interested in taking your etc. a bit further, try C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity". It articulates very well the interesting case of human nature. Of course, if you're specifically interested in what God has said, then read the Bible. It confirms itself.
JoeSparky
Centurion
Yep, I had the thought as I typed my comment that the problem is that some men may try to "interpret" to their OWN ADVANTAGE and detriment of another!---- Oh, that would be the wrong thing to do! As a Christian, I do believe that He has given us His word in the Bible as correctly recorded by those who lived when He was on our earth. I do believe the Bible to be the Word of GOD as long as it is translated correctly.
This leads us to the concept of FAITH in God, His commandments, and goals for mankind! This is how I believe. How you or anyone else believes or not is entirely up to you or anyone else!
I do suspect that we are a great way off of the desired original topic for this thread however.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
I apologize to Tawnos for assuming he was running away. I realize now he had other reasons for bowing out of the discussion.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Whether our natural laws are God given or nature given, I believe most are fairly static otherwise they are values.
georg jetson
Regular Member
Primus
Regular Member
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
I second Primus's request – it's a bit vague. Stand and fight what?
If we're defending our families, then it may well be advantageous to "stand and fight", even at some risk of death. If one man dies but the community survives, his offspring may as well.
If you're talking about some sort of heroic 300-esque last-stand in the name of some or other cause, well, I fail to see a moral component at all, on the face of it.
On April 8, the RAND Corporation, a nonprofit research institution, released a study on how the Affordable Care Act (ACA) has affected the number of Americans with health insurance. The study found a net gain of 9.3 million Americans with health insurance from September 2013 to March 2014 and that the share of uninsured Americans has dropped from 20.5 percent to 15.8 percent. The report estimated a lower enrollment number than the White House's 7.1 million, but added an important caveat:
“Although a total of 3.9 million people enrolled in marketplace plans, only 1.4 million of these individuals were previously uninsured. Our marketplace enrollment numbers are lower than those reported by the federal government at least in part because our data do not fully capture the surge in enrollment that occurred in late March 2014.
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR600/RR656/RAND_RR656.pdf
Primus
Regular Member
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
I suggest the supporters come try to take the funds from those who don't want to pay themselves? If its not theft or force you should have no problem collecting.