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Thread: Can you trust the internet?

  1. #1
    gerberkon
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    Can you trust the internet?

    question arose. I do not like that on the Internet everything is publicly available. How can information be protected?

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Enigma?
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ¿ʍou ʎddɐɥ
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    You can't put anything on the internet that isn't true.
    Advocate freedom please

  5. #5
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I Googled this question and the top answer came back that all stuff on the Interwebz is true.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    You can't put anything on the internet that isn't true.
    Except fake boobs.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangkiller View Post
    Except fake boobs.
    No they are really there and really do exist. "Fake" is just the descriptor. Like "red' cars. They still exist just are red.



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    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I'm a French model.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I'm a French model.
    That explains ALOT.... viva LA resistance.. lol

    Damn frogs

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    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    You can't put anything on the internet that isn't true.
    Abe Lincoln disagreed with that statement.

  11. #11
    Regular Member 2AFriendly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerberkon View Post
    question arose. I do not like that on the Internet everything is publicly available. How can information be protected?
    Protected against normal folks? Easy.

    Protected against the NSA? Hard - unless you just don't use the internet at all. Then it's dead simple.

    Assume nothing is private though.

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    ...waiting for the sales pitch about encryption products that you can buy in bulk...

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    That explains ALOT.... viva LA resistance.. lol

    Damn frogs

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    Bon Jour.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerberkon View Post
    question arose. I do not like that on the Internet everything is publicly available. How can information be protected?
    Not everything on the Internet is publicly available. You can limit your privacy settings on Facebook. That being said, Facebook and the NSA still have access to the things she marked private.

    As others have pointed out, encryption to meet used to secure your transmissions. Including emails. Google GnuPG.

    Google: TOR (the onion router)
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  15. #15
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Well said. Encryption everywhere. Locally full disk encryption and file encryption for the paranoid. Force secure communication with HTTPS, anonymized and through TOR. Use encrypted e-mail and a secure server.

    We may not be able to prevent snooping, but it can be made so expensive as to discourage cursory/casual snooping.
    I'm quite confident that the NSA is very concerned with expense.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  16. #16
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    This forum doesn't support https.

    Disappointing
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 04-03-2014 at 07:11 AM.
    Advocate freedom please

  17. #17
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Political expense?
    Any expense.....but I think you know this.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  18. #18
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Well said. Encryption everywhere. Locally full disk encryption and file encryption for the paranoid. Force secure communication with HTTPS, anonymized and through TOR. Use encrypted e-mail and a secure server.

    We may not be able to prevent snooping, but it can be made so expensive as to discourage cursory/casual snooping.
    To be clear: native TOR doesn't secure the payload, it just protects the identity of the sender.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  19. #19
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    This forum doesn't support https.

    Disappointing
    HTTPS requires the server use a dedicated IP. Most hosting places charge extra for a dedicated IP. There are done technical considerations here!

    What would HTTPS but you anyhow? Protection of your user ID/password? Aside from PMs, it's a public forum!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  20. #20
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    HTTPS requires the server use a dedicated IP. Most hosting places charge extra for a dedicated IP. There are done technical considerations here!

    What would HTTPS but you anyhow? Protection of your user ID/password? Aside from PMs, it's a public forum!
    There are a multitude of reasons to offer HTTPS, even on a site such as this one. You named two already, and I bet you didn't even have to think that hard

    Cost is cost. If it's important, it should just be considered part of the cost of running a website. I can't recall ever being solicited for donations on this website. If money is an issue, first of all they should ask for help from their member base, and secondly I'd personally cover the cost of the SSL certificate for 1 year.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 04-03-2014 at 12:50 PM.
    Advocate freedom please

  21. #21
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernymac View Post
    ...waiting for the sales pitch about encryption products that you can buy in bulk...
    Pfffttt. I like 'for free' better; TrueCrypt. And Predator for locking it up when I'm not there.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 04-03-2014 at 01:12 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    HTTPS requires the server use a dedicated IP. Most hosting places charge extra for a dedicated IP. There are done technical considerations here!
    For a URL to point to a webserver on port 80 [which this is, since you don't have to specify a port to get here] pretty much requires a dedicated IP anyway. There are ways around this but they require more control over the network equipment the server is behind than I am willing to bet that the site admins have. Hosting a website such as a forum on a dynamic IP address is ridiculous and unlikely.

    @stealthyeliminator, A quick search based on the public IP of forum.opencarry.org reveals that this site is hosted on Cloudflare [John, feel free to shout at me if I'm incorrect], out of Amsterdam. This is a web hosting company, not a server rental service, which means just purchasing an SSL certificate isn't going to be very useful unfortunately, however it looks like SSL encryption is included in all but their 'free' plan, so if it was a service we really felt strongly about, you'd have to raise about $240 to upgrade the site to 'pro' @ $20 a month for a year.

    Cloudflare's site hosting plans



    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    What would HTTPS but you anyhow? Protection of your user ID/password? Aside from PMs, it's a public forum!
    Encryption of your username and password is one, protection of your location is another. Protection against phishing attempts, which I could see since there are a lot of Paypal links and stuff. There are a few benefits but I generally agree that given the nature of this site its probably not that important.

  23. #23
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Can you trust the internet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    For a URL to point to a webserver on port 80 [which this is, since you don't have to specify a port to get here] pretty much requires a dedicated IP anyway. There are ways around this but they require more control over the network equipment the server is behind than I am willing to bet that the site admins have. Hosting a website such as a forum on a dynamic IP address is ridiculous and unlikely.

    @stealthyeliminator, A quick search based on the public IP of forum.opencarry.org reveals that this site is hosted on Cloudflare [John, feel free to shout at me if I'm incorrect], out of Amsterdam. This is a web hosting company, not a server rental service, which means just purchasing an SSL certificate isn't going to be very useful unfortunately, however it looks like SSL encryption is included in all but their 'free' plan, so if it was a service we really felt strongly about, you'd have to raise about $240 to upgrade the site to 'pro' @ $20 a month for a year.

    Cloudflare's site hosting plans





    Encryption of your username and password is one, protection of your location is another. Protection against phishing attempts, which I could see since there are a lot of Paypal links and stuff. There are a few benefits but I generally agree that given the nature of this site its probably not that important.
    I didn't suggest a DYNAMIC IP. I suggested more than one website *may* run off the IP that hosts forums.opencarry.org.

    You don't know have much experience with HTTP or managing Apache and your post demonstrates it. Let's say you have IP 1.2.3.4. 1.2.3.4 can host an infinite number of websites via HTTP/1.1. Part of the HTTP/1.1 request header is a tag that says "host: ..."

    This Host header is the name if the website you want (not the path, which is after the /, but the host name which is before the /). For example, yahoo.com and google.com can be hosted on the same IP via HTTP/1.1 -- which is the protocol virtually every web server and client has used for the past 2 decades.

    Why does SSL change this? The first thing the client does in SSL is connect to the server. As soon as it does, the server sends the client it's public key and any accompanying SSL certificate signatures. The public key and the cert both have the name of a certain domain name/host name. Therefore yahoo.com and google.com can't be in the same IP, because the public key is sent way in advance if the client saying what website it wants to talk to -- thus the server doesn't know which key/cert to send (google.com or yahoo.com)

    Anyone with a fair amount of experience managing "virtual hosts" in Apache would know this stuff.
    Last edited by TheQ; 04-16-2014 at 09:14 AM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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