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Thread: You guys will have fun rippng this article to shreds...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    You guys will have fun rippng this article to shreds...

    Already did so for part 1 on other websites. To be honest is more of the same: "I support Open Carry, but it's bad and you shouldn't do it." Though he throws in some new ways of looking at it that I nearly laughed myself out of my seat upon reading. Here's a quick quote to give you an idea of the gist of the article to get the juices flowing...

    "I think it is time for us all to agree, without having to call for links to prove it, the mere presence of a gun may stop a crime from ever being committed. On the flip side we need to agree that the presence of the gun may also be the catalyst of the crime that is committed. Yes, there are plenty of cases that show that people were targeted for their guns……..in their homes and on their person. This is all well documented and backed by common sense."

    Cites to Authority? He don't need no stinking links. Don't confuse him with facts! >.<

    The Do's and Don'ts of Open Carry: http://gunsafetyblog.com/2014/03/31/...-carry-part-1/

    Edit: I put this in the 'Why Open Carry' section as it does pertain to someone figuring out Why they would or would not want to OC. Feel free to move to another sub if more appropriate elsewhere though.
    Last edited by Baked on Grease; 04-02-2014 at 08:45 AM.
    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

  2. #2
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Appeals to emotion and not providing cites to confirm your claims.


    A CCer will be a victim before a OCer.


    What, 60 some odd percent of BGs avoid OCers by their own admission. CCers always claim “element of surprise” this, in my view is code for “I get to shoot a BG if I’m lucky.”


    I suspect that this post will last only long enough to have it deleted. And. you, Mr. Phillips, think we all should agree with you…..appeal to authority.


    Your fallacies are piled high.


    The bottom line, carry as you see fit, within the confines of the law.


    WB
    What I posted. No comments were posted: 0 comments on “The Do’s and Don’ts of Open Carry Part 1”

    Another member of the CC Industrial Complex.....pffft!
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Careful now...Gecko21sfpistol will see that and use it as some sort of authoritative cite.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernymac View Post
    Careful now...Gecko21sfpistol will see that and use it as some sort of authoritative cite.
    Possibly, but it may not interest him. I don't see a single reference to preventing the robing of kids. He has his proclivities, you must understand.

    I still haven't actually figured out how CC prevents children from getting dressed, but I'm working on it.
    Last edited by marshaul; 04-02-2014 at 12:14 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Look where the idiots finger is on his draw in his picture, not fully in the trigger guard but certainly not on the side pointing forward. It appears the idiot is placing his finger on the trigger. Guess he is not all that serious about safety, maybe he should look at himself and worry about himself before attempting the futile and dumb task of telling others how to live their life.

    Just another control freak with low self esteem, who seems to not get the idea of liberty, personal freedom, and freedom of choice. He can go pound sand.
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    He kind of lost me when he used the phrase "common sense".

  7. #7
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I know there are people out there that believe that I am “anti-open carry.” This is not really the truth of the matter.
    He lost me at the word really.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    My first impression is that he is a domineering, arrogant , hubris laden jerk. I would hate to be a member of his family. Seems to me he thinks he can have this same control he has over his family over others in an encounter. Faulty thinking.

    He claims not to be anti OC yet rants about it and uses myths.

    Claims there is lot's of incidents to back him up yet doesn't list a single one.

    He is out of touch when it comes to bad neighborhoods. His was vague about "how you carry yourself" may deter crime, from his words I doubt respect is what he is talking about. Especially when he falsely states OC may apear "disrespectful".
    Cocky confidence, will cause you more problems in some neighborhoods, then simple respect, acknowledgment, and minding your own business. His analogy of carrying the gun as the same as giving someone the finger.....hilarious, that would only be applicable if someone were "brandishing" it in a manner or intent of causing alarm (disrespect).

    His analogy about having your bluff called can be thought of another way, CC means the other guy thinks you are carrying low cards, so there seems to me to be more of a chance of someone "calling it" thinking they have the upper hand. OC is not a "bluff" it is showing everybody you have the high cards and they better not bet on winning with their low cards.

    And why is he practicing OC and not CC?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #9
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    It is extremely ironic, hilariously so, that CCers, all of the ones I know, OC at a range. Whatever...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It is extremely ironic, hilariously so, that CCers, all of the ones I know, OC at a range. Whatever...
    Well you know someone on here conceals at the range AND shoots faster more accurate with a much faster draw time from said concealment.

    Hint: while I do cc and train from concealment at range, I'm not the the guy I was referencing



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    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I too practice CC draws, but I don't need a range to do that. Nor does a OC draw require a range. But, I OC and fire at the range only because I OC only, unless I am forced under the law, or a property owners wishes to CC.

    All of my cop friends are "prohibited" from OCing, as a policy, while they are off-duty and in their LEA's jurisdiction. One of my buddies prefers to OC and think it sucks that policy is crafted to make nitwits "less scared." He routinely sees OCers (when he sees one) not being noticed at all by adults. Usually a little kid points cuz they, for what ever reason, see the pistol first. He thinks it is due to the adult has other matters on their mind and the kid is along only for the ride and has the luxury to really look around and see things.

    Anyway, Mr. Phillipos is biased, obviously, and would get along immensely with or resident CC Industrial Complex agent provocateur.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Well you know someone on here conceals at the range AND shoots faster more accurate with a much faster draw time from said concealment.

    Hint: while I do cc and train from concealment at range, I'm not the the guy I was referencing
    As you should, and good reminder for those of us who OC all the time and CC rarely to practice. Just make sure you wear the shoot me first vest and pants when you do.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 04-03-2014 at 01:02 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  13. #13
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    As you should, and good reminder for those of us who OC all the time and CC rarely to practice. Just make sure you wear the shoot me first vest and pants when you do.
    Shoot me first vest and pants? Are you referring to something like a idpa vest?

    My cc carry method is a bit different then what I see a lot of. I carry appendix. Never liked the over the hip area IWBs.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Any time I hear some say I am for this and for that BUT.

    I really know that they are against something.

    This person is against OC.

    He is just trying to say so in a nice manner BS for sure.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Shoot me first vest and pants? Are you referring to something like a idpa vest?

    My cc carry method is a bit different then what I see a lot of. I carry appendix. Never liked the over the hip area IWBs.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    It's a joke we make in Washington. Many of the CC guys were the same type of "tactical" vests. IDPA fits the bill. The joke wasn't aimed at you just at the guys who were the shoot me first vests.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    My first impression is that he is a domineering, arrogant , hubris laden jerk. I would hate to be a member of his family. Seems to me he thinks he can have this same control he has over his family over others in an encounter......................................... ...So, tell us how you really feel, Rob.

    His was vague about "how you carry yourself" may deter crime, from his words I doubt respect is what he is talking about. Especially when he falsely states OC may apear "disrespectful".
    Cocky confidence, will cause you more problems in some neighborhoods, then simple respect, acknowledgment, and minding your own business. His analogy of carrying the gun as the same as giving someone the finger.....hilarious,?

    I live in an area with a large gang presence. When summer comes, the park and its huge body of water attract quite a few people. I do not alter my life because of that and when we encounter each other respect, acknowledgement and myob work. I believe in what the General said..."I come in Peace, but if you eff with me I will kill you where you stand."

    It is called "command presence". Be confident, be in control of yourself.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    This article is actually rather old. I responded to the article on the original forums from where it came. I ended up getting banned from their forums for being a "political activist only" even though I both carry and have various training. They banned me after I used logic and actual cites to rebut all of their emotional claims. I think it was actually the author of that wrote the article.

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    This article is actually rather old. I responded to the article on the original forums from where it came. I ended up getting banned from their forums for being a "political activist only" even though I both carry and have various training. They banned me after I used logic and actual cites to rebut all of their emotional claims. I think it was actually the author of that wrote the article.
    Then I guess it's been reposted because the website says it was posted on March 31 this year....

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
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    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baked on Grease View Post
    Then I guess it's been reposted because the website says it was posted on March 31 this year....

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    It is a repost, but given that it is like two years old and how OC seems to be growing im not surprised. I also dont expect people to remember it from tbe past (assuming tbey were even on the board then). But yea the author REALLY didnt like being questioned and proven wrong.

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I live in an area with a large gang presence. When summer comes, the park and its huge body of water attract quite a few people. I do not alter my life because of that and when we encounter each other respect, acknowledgement and myob work. I believe in what the General said..."I come in Peace, but if you eff with me I will kill you where you stand."

    It is called "command presence". Be confident, be in control of yourself.
    +1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
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    I lost my older sister at 28 years old due to the life style that we had led as children and young adults. Living outside of “the three stupid rule” as we did, for over thirteen years, cost her her life. She made decisions at thirteen years old that were not survivable. I spent thirteen years of my life protecting her

    Sounds like he failed he sister ... now he wants to lecture the rest of the world ...


    All I need to do is go home
    Then Go Home and shut up!

    I carry for one reason and one reason only.
    And I don't care what anyone's reason for carrying is...its a right and I'm not nosey

    Do not go stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things
    I guess another is: I do not use English correctly too !

    I think it is time for us all to agree, without having to call for links to prove it, the mere presence of a gun may stop a crime from ever being committed.
    I don't see a connection between the need to lower crime to the right to carry; any correlation is irrelevant; but if the guy wants to state facts then you, I would seek proof if you wanted to make a point of it.

  22. #22
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Anybody else notice the coincidence of the number of times he says operator and the look on his face in the pictures getting more serious as you scroll through the article? At the end, I love how he decks himself out in DCU trousers and his glasses suddenly become highly reflective. I bet they're there to cover the bruises from the slide hitting him in the face. And to blind shoplifters at WalMart.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran ATM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    It is a repost, but given that it is like two years old and how OC seems to be growing im not surprised. I also dont expect people to remember it from tbe past (assuming tbey were even on the board then). But yea the author REALLY didnt like being questioned and proven wrong.
    Ha! I remember that exchange: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ez)-discuss-OC

    The fact that he didn't like being questioned paled in comparison to his inability to answer your calm and reasoned logical approach to refuting his unsupporte premises, resorting rather to constant and evasive fallacies (not the least of which were the overbearing appeals to his own authority and evasive ad hominem rants and dismissive labeling attempts).

    The funniest part was all his forum fans cheering and agreeing with him even as he failed so obviously to defend or advance his argument at all. I don't think that crowd is accustomed to requiring reasons, facts or data to modify their belief systems.


    Good times.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATM View Post
    Ha! I remember that exchange: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ez)-discuss-OC

    The fact that he didn't like being questioned paled in comparison to his inability to answer your calm and reasoned logical approach to refuting his unsupporte premises, resorting rather to constant and evasive fallacies (not the least of which were the overbearing appeals to his own authority and evasive ad hominem rants and dismissive labeling attempts).

    The funniest part was all his forum fans cheering and agreeing with him even as he failed so obviously to defend or advance his argument at all. I don't think that crowd is accustomed to requiring reasons, facts or data to modify their belief systems.


    Good times.
    That's part of the reason I enjoy this forum so much more than others, the Cite to Authority rule puts all arguments on equal footing to back up their claim... otherwise it remains just a claim.

    Edit: I had to stop reading his responses when he started on the "I am extremely pro freedom [... ] but we have to BALANCE OUR RIGHTS..." emphasis mine of course.

    Sounds like he would negotiate an compromise his Rights away... and that is anything but pro freedom.

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    Last edited by Baked on Grease; 04-08-2014 at 11:07 AM.
    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

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    Newbie here, wondering why OCers are fighting with the CCers shouldn't we all be fighting with the people who don't want us to carry at all?

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