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Thread: Fort Hood again! Active shooter.

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    Fort Hood again! Active shooter.

    Last edited by Nightmare; 04-02-2014 at 07:24 PM.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    more sensless gun violence, if only we required background checks and banned military style weapons on base this would all not happen anymore.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    I wonder if this was the guy they were looking for?

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...oter-incident/

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    Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhead View Post
    Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
    History is written by the victors. The dictate is to remember "the past."

    Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.George Santayana,The Life of Reason (1905-1906)
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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    They must have missed the no guns signs... I know! Maybe the politicians should pass a law making it illegal to have guns there! >. <

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    Wonder how long it will take before the gubment finds an anti-muslim video to blame.
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    I would think that bases should be prepared for any attack at all times ... its not a dance club.

    They got the guy, what more do people want?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ...its not a dance club.
    ...Isn't it?

    I'm pretty sure my living room is more secure.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Another "crisis" = "opportunity."

    Wait for it.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Another "crisis" = "opportunity." Wait for it.
    The shooter legally obtained a gun while under psychiatric observation/care.
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    1) This story is obviously a complete fabrication, because handguns are not permitted on-base without specific permission of what I believe is called "the provost". Therefore, this guy could not possibly have been carrying a loaded handgun.

    2) They said on the news there was something like fourteen army folks dead. Do you suppose that if any of them had been carrying for personal defense that there'd have been so many? Seems to me, that the United States is financially liable to the victims under the Tort Claims Act because the Army enacted regulations to prevent people from exercising their right to self-defense; therefore, the Army assumed a positive and affirmative duty to protect those personnel so deprived. The U.S. is liable for negligent failure to protect the people killed.

    3) How is it that the Constitutional guarantees in the Bill of Rights cease to be effective at the gates of a military base? Much of the reasoning in Dick Heller's case against the Federal District of Washington applies here. The Army base isn't Texas, it's the United States; there's a clear boundary there. And within the territory of the U.S., the Second Amendment applies without any question about whether or not it applies within a state; the Fourteenth Amendment is not implicated. Who said the Army can enact regulations prohibiting the free exercise of the right to self-defense?
    Last edited by user; 04-03-2014 at 09:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Another "crisis" = "opportunity."

    Wait for it.
    How come we never take the initiative during these "crises"? See my post above regarding lawsuits against the Gov. for negligent failure to protect.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The shooter legally obtained a gun while under psychiatric observation/care.
    So. It is the final diagnosis that is the element to either retain, or have revoked, your RKBA. Being "observed" must not be a/the element.

    React to unlawful acts, no "Minority Report" proactive LE.....ever!!
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    How come we never take the initiative during these "crises"? See my post above regarding lawsuits against the Gov. for negligent failure to protect.
    I'll defer to you, you are a lawyer. But, the SCOTUS has ruled in the past that the military can do a bunch of infringing in the name of good order and discipline. Double jeopardy does exist to a certain extent in the services.

    Though, I think some politician is asking the question about the/a law that permits service members to disarmed and whether or not it needs to be changed.

    Anyway. The king can only be sued at his pleasure.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    1) This story is obviously a complete fabrication, because handguns are not permitted on-base without specific permission of what I believe is called "the provost". Therefore, this guy could not possibly have been carrying a loaded handgun.

    2) They said on the news there was something like fourteen army folks dead. Do you suppose that if any of them had been carrying for personal defense that there'd have been so many? Seems to me, that the United States is financially liable to the victims under the Tort Claims Act because the Army enacted regulations to prevent people from exercising their right to self-defense; therefore, the Army assumed a positive and affirmative duty to protect those personnel so deprived. The U.S. is liable for negligent failure to protect the people killed.

    3) How is it that the Constitutional guarantees in the Bill of Rights cease to be effective at the gates of a military base? Much of the reasoning in Dick Heller's case against the Federal District of Washington applies here. The Army base isn't Texas, it's the United States; there's a clear boundary there. And within the territory of the U.S., the Second Amendment applies without any question about whether or not it applies within a state; the Fourteenth Amendment is not implicated. Who said the Army can enact regulations prohibiting the free exercise of the right to self-defense?
    I don't disagree with your implied conclusions, but it seems to me that there is a fundamental incompatibility between liberty and (active) military service. (Is there a military in history to which this has not applied?)

    This is one of the many reasons to prefer militias over standing armies: it avoids these issues as militiamen retain all the liberties of any other citizen, barring any exigencies.
    Last edited by marshaul; 04-03-2014 at 09:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    [ ... ]This is one of the many reasons to prefer militias over standing armies: it avoids these issues as militiamen retain all the liberties of any other citizen, barring any exigencies.
    As I understand it, the Swiss Army is ~5% professional and largely conscripted. Officer candidates are selected during basic training.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I don't disagree with your implied conclusions, but it seems to me that there is a fundamental incompatibility between liberty and (active) military service. (Is there a military in history to which this has not applied?)

    This is one of the many reasons to prefer militias over standing armies: it avoids these issues as militiamen retain all the liberties of any other citizen, barring any exigencies.
    I really like the part of being a militia member when plantin time and harvest time rolls around.....see ya, be back in a month or two.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I really like the part of being a militia member when plantin time and harvest time rolls around.....see ya, be back in a month or two.
    Yep! A voluntary militia is more effective because people can take care of their business and if they are fighting they are fighting because they believe in the fight.

    Washington and his standing army is going to come steal all your hard work from harvesting.
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    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    ...Isn't it?

    I'm pretty sure my living room is more secure.
    When I was in the marines, every personal car and motorcycle with a base sticker was stopped and checked, but the County bus was waved right thru and made several stops within, and anybody could have gotten off no questions asked. Security on a military base in most times is for show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaResident View Post
    When I was in the marines, every personal car and motorcycle with a base sticker was stopped and checked, but the County bus was waved right thru and made several stops within, and anybody could have gotten off no questions asked. Security on a military base in most times is for show.
    We are stopped at the gate and the MP verifies that we have a valid ID. Other than that I have never been searched in my own vehicle and could bring a gun on base very easily, if I wasn't so scared of the consequences. (Which obviously didn't deter the nutjob)
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    Our main training facility was/is on a military base. I went there many times a year for 23 years to be train and as an instructor.

    Before 9/11 we had our own gate access with out guards and any body could come and go as they pleased.

    All LEOs that came to train can and do bring many weapons with them.

    After 9/11 they slowly started to get more restricted as far as entry now mainly its the main gate most of the day but they do open and man some the others at times.

    I seen them do lite searches and they are a bit more careful about ID checks after the new base commander showed up and he handed them a credit card with no picture. They handled it never looked at it and passed him through. Things changed after that.

    I haven't been back for several years now as I am retired so the current situation is unknown.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 04-03-2014 at 10:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    We are stopped at the gate and the MP verifies that we have a valid ID. Other than that I have never been searched in my own vehicle and could bring a gun on base very easily, if I wasn't so scared of the consequences. (Which obviously didn't deter the nutjob)
    Yes, clarification. Vehicles were not checked, just the person and ID. Rest of vehicle could have been carrying anything.

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    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Our main training facility was/is on a military base. I went there many times a year for 23 years to be train and as an instructor.

    Before 9/11 we had our own gate access with out guards and any body could come and go as they pleased.

    All LEOs that came to train can and do bring many weapons with them.

    After 9/11 they slowly started to get more restricted as far as entry now mainly its the main gate most of the day but they do open and man some the others at times.

    I seen them do lite searches and they are a bit more careful about ID checks after the new base commander showed up and he handed them a credit card with no picture. They handled it never looked at it and passed him through. Things changed after that.

    I haven't been back for several years now as I am retired so the current situation is unknown.
    I once worked as a defence contractor. Same thing, show company ID or drivers license. After awhile, I'd show/flash them my library card or my buy-one-get-one-free Taco Bell coupon.

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    Ivan Lopez was on Ambien, previously discussed here and dismissed as benign.

    "The commanding officer of Fort Hood, Lt. Gen Mark Milley, told reporters Wednesday night that the gunman was being evaluated for PTSD but had not been diagnosed. Besides the depression and anxiety, Lopez had trouble sleeping and was taking Ambien, Army Secretary John McHugh told the Senate."

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/for...ficials-n70691

    A G00gle site search of forum.opencarry.org for Ambien returned ten hits. For zolpidem, onehit.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 04-03-2014 at 11:48 AM.
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