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Thread: Open Carry Florida?

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    Open Carry Florida?

    I know this has been asked before, but all the posts I could find are years old. What is the exact law on OC in Florida, has it changed since the last posts? I want to go to the pier in Hollywood and Miami to fish, but I would like to OC while I fish. The law confuses me a little with the way its written so I wold appreciate if someone could explain it. Thanks ahead of time.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Base men have banned the right to open carry in Florida. http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2013/790.25

    the exceptions are in the link above. (h) will interest you.
    Last edited by 77zach; 04-10-2014 at 03:44 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Base men have banned the right to open carry in Florida. http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2013/790.25

    the exceptions are in the link above. (h) will interest you.
    (3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Since the above replies have not answered your question, I will.

    The law confuses me a little with the way its written so I wold appreciate if someone could explain it.
    It is legal to open carry (or conceal carry without needing a CWFL) any firearm while fishing or going to and coming from your fishing spot, provided you are at least 18 years of age and are not prohibited from possessing firearms under Federal or State law.

    The statute doe not provide a definition of what exactly constitutes going to and coming from. And no case law on that exists at this time.
    [Explanation of statutory language complete]

    To be safe: Most folks subscribe to the theory that direct travel from the location where you decided to go fishing - whether that is home or work or Walmart after getting your fishing license is legal. Many feel that stops along the way are not covered under the law. The same applies for returning: Your legal ability to open carry ends at the point you are no longer returning from fishing. Like going to get something to eat on the way home.

    We do have a member here that open carries every day. He can do this because he goes fishing or to the range every day. If he stops on the way home for a bite to eat, he conceals his firearm when arriving at the restaurant.

    One of the benefits of retirement I suppose.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 04-10-2014 at 10:05 PM.

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    To be safe: Most folks subscribe to the theory that direct travel from the location where you decided to go fishing - whether that is home or work or Walmart after getting your fishing license is legal. Many feel that stops along the way are not covered under the law. The same applies for returning: Your legal ability to open carry ends at the point you are no longer returning from fishing. Like going to get something to eat on the way home.

    We do have a member here that open carries every day. He can do this because he goes fishing or to the range every day. If he stops on the way home for a bite to eat, he conceals his firearm when arriving at the restaurant.

    One of the benefits of retirement I suppose.
    Notalawyer has described the law and appropriates action correctly.

    Just came back from the range after testing out some new slide stop springs and open carried on the motorcycle both ways, of course. This is not an unusual action for me but may be a bit strange for a person new to open carry.

    As fishing is included in the previously mentioned statute, you should feel confident in open carrying while fishing in Florida.

    AD (range time on Saturday, fishing on Sunday)
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    I'm trying to make an effort to understand senate bill 0517


    Firearms; Provides that person in compliance with terms of concealed carry license may openly carry handgun notwithstanding specified provisions; allows Division of Licensing of DACS to take fingerprints from concealed carry license applicants; provides that person may not openly carry handgun or carry concealed weapon or firearm into specified locations; provides that concealed carry licensees shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing firearm in vehicle for lawful purposes, etc


    Effective Date: upon becoming a law
    Last Action: 5/3/2011 House - Laid on Table, companion bill(s) passed, see CS/CS/SB 234 (Ch. 2011-145) -HJ 1101
    Location: Laid on Table

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    ...We do have a member here that open carries every day. He can do this because he goes fishing or to the range every day...
    I don't see coming/going to the range being one of the exceptions (that Grapeshot cited), so how does he get away with that?

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Open Carry Florida?

    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I don't see coming/going to the range being one of the exceptions (that Grapeshot cited), so how does he get away with that?
    As a full time open carry advocate and practitioner, it is important to read and understand ALL of Florida Statute 790.

    I believe you will find your answer under f.s. 790.25(3)(j) or (k), depending on where you're doing your shooting.

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    Last edited by ADulay; 05-19-2014 at 08:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocofan View Post
    I'm trying to make an effort to understand senate bill 0517


    Firearms; Provides that person in compliance with terms of concealed carry license may openly carry handgun notwithstanding specified provisions; allows Division of Licensing of DACS to take fingerprints from concealed carry license applicants; provides that person may not openly carry handgun or carry concealed weapon or firearm into specified locations; provides that concealed carry licensees shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing firearm in vehicle for lawful purposes, etc


    Effective Date: upon becoming a law
    Last Action: 5/3/2011 House - Laid on Table, companion bill(s) passed, see CS/CS/SB 234 (Ch. 2011-145) -HJ 1101
    Location: Laid on Table
    The highlight sort of explains it....

    Anyway...part of that bill was the attempt to get licensed Open Carry in Florida in 2011. Due to legally questionable lobbying on part of the Florida Sheriff's Association and behind-the-scenes lobbying by the Florida Retail Federation coupled with the NRA's utter lack of cojones (they saw the writing on the wall and bailed, instead of simply pulling the bill to - to prevent it from being bastardized) scuttled it. What it did give us (and of course the NRA claims this as a win ) was the introduction of an undefined term: "Brief"

    790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
    (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
    Underlined text is what was added to the existing law.

    Please note, that before this change, it never was been illegal for someone to display a firearm unless it was done in an angry angry or threatening manner. So that language was completely unnecessary. Especially in light of the fact that we already have a statute that addresses that crime:
    790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    This change introduced ambiguity where none existed before. Previously, the state would need evidence of specific facts that would provide them with probable cause to believe that you in fact did exhibit your firearm in a rude, careless, angry or threatening manner. (Or that you were intentionally open carrying, which is different from exposing it) in order to arrest and prosecute. Now, all they need is a LEO's subjective judgement that your display was not "brief"!


    So that left us with an undefined term and the legislature basically said: We have no clue how to write meaningful laws and are quick to bend to shenanigans from anti-freedom groups, so here is a new term, we don't really know what it's supposed to mean, so if you want to find out, some poor innocent shlub is going to have to get arrested and then convicted and then appeal, costing him ten's of thousands of dollars, maybe lose his job and cause him significant family and social pressure, so the courts can manufacture a definition of the word 'brief'.

    Loathsome, despicable, criminally negligent action of their part. But, of course, they are protected from their horrendous disservice to the citizens of the State by the very laws they write!

    Just my opinion on the matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I don't see coming/going to the range being one of the exceptions (that Grapeshot cited), so how does he get away with that?
    It's in subsection J that Grape did not include:

    (3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 [law proscribing Open Carry] and 790.06 [law requiring a license to carry a concealed firearm] do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

    (j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I don't see coming/going to the range being one of the exceptions (that Grapeshot cited), so how does he get away with that?
    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    As a full time open carry advocate and practitioner, it is important to read and understand ALL of Florida Statute 790.

    I believe you will find your answer under f.s. 790.25(3)(j) or (k), depending on where you're doing your shooting.
    Yep - going to and from the range is a "lawful purpose" - you gotta read the whole cite. Just pointed you in the right direction.

    (j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place.

    Further, the specific section was pointed out by others prior to your question.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    stop's along the way to the range example: walmart to get some ammo if you can find any and then have some braekfest at Mc"D"'s and head off to the range. this would be permisable?

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocofan View Post
    stop's along the way to the range example: walmart to get some ammo if you can find any and then have some braekfest at Mc"D"'s and head off to the range. this would be permisable?
    Chocofan,

    Well, if we could do that, we probably wouldn't need a new law to make open carry legal!!!

    Seriously, most of us who have discussed this particular thing in detail have determined that going from fishing to Wal-Mart should be OK, but when you leave Wal-Mart for home, you're now on a different version of "going to and from" and should remain concealed.

    As the definition of what an "expedition" is has not come forth from Tallahassee, we have decided to err on the side of caution and carry only on the legs actually going to and from the fishing, hunting, shooting expeditions.

    I would tend to rule that a fishing "expedition" covers everything from the moment you leave home until you get back, but I don't think the local PD will go along with that unless Tallahassee can come up with a good definition so everybody would be on the same page.

    Just finished up a 5 day "expedition" through Louisiana and Texas. Open carried all over Louisiana with ZERO problems. Had to conceal in Texas, but that was only for a few days.

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    thank you Adulay for that clarification, it may be a little confuseing that a small diviation might give such a hassel, there have been instances where I have considered hoghunting down in okachobi, and open carrying from Ocala to okachobi wich may be a today expedition.

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    You mean okeechobee?


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    Quote Originally Posted by chocofan View Post
    thank you Adulay for that clarification, it may be a little confuseing that a small diviation might give such a hassel, there have been instances where I have considered hoghunting down in okachobi, and open carrying from Ocala to okachobi wich may be a today expedition.
    Chocofan,

    From what you describe, I would open carry the non-stop route from Ocala to Okeechobee for the hunt, but then I'm used to traveling all over the state in pursuit of fish! I've also open carried from here on the west coast to fishing trips/expeditions on the east coast and back. The key element is to make sure you can "prove" that you are doing what you say you're doing. Receipts for the hog hunt or reservations, things like that. I always make sure I can document my status when open carrying. Yes, sometimes it's a hassle, but with something this visible to the local PD, you need to be on solid ground when the questions start coming, whether deemed appropriate or not.

    AD


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    exactly, my moma always taught me to save my recipts for if such any situation arises you need proof. I honestly belive in opencarry, when I was younger and living in bklyn,NYC I was mugged many times and had a nice leather coat taken from me at gun point and I refuse to be a victim any longer. now a day's I drive an 18 wheeler OTR and some times when you run out of hours to drive and you have to park in some pretty lonely places or on off ramps,any one can just come by shoot through the cab and that's it.

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    I had a Marion County sheriff tell me a few months ago that if they saw me OCing I would most likely be arrested. And that the judge would determine if I was legal.

    Now I have OC'ed while fishing near my home and have never had any problems. But still cautious about traveling to and from. I still pull my shirt over it just to be safe.
    Last edited by conandan; 05-30-2014 at 06:50 PM.

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conandan View Post
    I had a Marion County sheriff tell me a few months ago that if they saw me OCing I would most likely be arrested. And that the judge would determine if I was legal.

    Now I have OC'ed while fishing near my home and have never had any problems. But still cautious about traveling to and from. I still pull my shirt over it just to be safe.
    Conandan,

    Did the sheriff tell you just what you were going to be arrested for?

    I've had one guy hint about some kind of arrest because I was "causing a nuisance".

    I asked him basically "to whom" as it was just me and him and his partner.

    I rode away a few minutes later, still open carrying.

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    Regular Member conandan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Conandan,

    Did the sheriff tell you just what you were going to be arrested for?

    I've had one guy hint about some kind of arrest because I was "causing a nuisance".

    I asked him basically "to whom" as it was just me and him and his partner.

    I rode away a few minutes later, still open carrying.

    AD



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    I took it as I would be charged for openly carrying a firearm. He did not say specifically what I would be charged with. And with his attitude towards carrying I didn't go any further with the conversation.

    I know a few officers and they all have the idea that concealed carry is the only way to carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conandan View Post
    MO
    I took it as I would be charged for openly carrying a firearm. He did not say specifically what I would be charged with. And with his attitude towards carrying I didn't go any further with the conversation.

    I know a few officers and they all have the idea that concealed carry is the only way to carry.
    LEO are allowed to lie
    but like ADulay mentioned earlier about keeping your recipts as proof if going to and from the range,camping, hunting,fishing,I also think that citeing statue 790.25,that's with out mentioning that you will get hassled by LEO.
    these thing's might clarify to the officer toward you'r action of OC ing.
    Last edited by chocofan; 05-31-2014 at 07:32 AM.

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    Regular Member conandan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocofan View Post
    LEO are allowed to lie
    but like ADulay mentioned earlier about keeping your recipts as proof if going to and from the range,camping, hunting,fishing,I also think that citeing statue 790.25,that's with out mentioning that you will get hassled by LEO.
    these thing's might clarify to the officer toward you'r action of OC ing.
    Yea I know LEO'S can and do lie to you to. And I don't take what they say as 100% correct. But it goes back to the rule you may beat the charge but not the ride. No matter how passionate a am a about my rights that taking the ride part really worries me. I've never been it the back seat of a cruiser and don't want one . No matter if I k ow I'm right or not.

    All I can do is hope one day Florida will allow open carry, but I am not going to hold my breath.
    Last edited by conandan; 06-01-2014 at 05:38 PM.

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conandan View Post
    But it goes back to the rule you may beat the charge but not the ride. No matter how passionate a am a about my rights that taking the ride part really worries me. I've never been it the back seat of a cruiser and don't want one . No matter if I k ow I'm right or not.
    I respect the law. I do not live my life in fear of the law.

    The problem for most people is that they live in fear of the law and allow what little freedoms we have just get taken away.

    Open carry is legal under the appropriate statutes. I elect to avail myself to all that the law allows.

    I do not live in constant fear of being "temporarily detained" by the local PD. A lot of people are, even when they are 100% in the right.

    An officer has the duty to check on a person who may have been called in by some panicky citizen. Once it's obvious that you are not about to rob the local 7-11, you'll be sent on your way.

    It's not a big deal.

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    I'll agree with ADuly LEO are not required to know all the laws, but a law abiding citizen should know the laws for his or her own benefit, example a friend of mine told me a story of a man who went to an airport with his luggage and his pistol wanting to boared an airline with his pistol on his person just because he had a ccw but did not have his permit with him at that moment, he missed his flight remained on the airport property with hopes of getting on another flight LEO arrived and he was arrested. now in this case the man ignored that he could travel with his pistol but he went about it the wrong way if it where unloaded,locked,encased,and the ammo in a separate box also locked,and would have presented it at the checkout in the correct manner mabe he would have made it to his destination. but instead he got arrested faceing charges and might have his ccw revoked. sad but true. my buddy also added that the man had some type of malisious intent.
    Last edited by chocofan; 06-02-2014 at 07:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocofan View Post
    I'll agree with ADuly LEO are not required to know all the laws, but a law abiding citizen should know the laws for his or her own benefit, example a friend of mine told me a story of a man who went to an airport with his luggage and his pistol wanting to boared an airline with his pistol on his person just because he had a ccw but did not have his permit with him at that moment, he missed his flight remained on the airport property with hopes of getting on another flight LEO arrived and he was arrested. now in this case the man ignored that he could travel with his pistol but he went about it the wrong way if it where unloaded,locked,encased,and the ammo in a separate box also locked,and would have presented it at the checkout in the correct manner mabe he would have made it to his destination. but instead he got arrested faceing charges and might have his ccw revoked. sad but true. my buddy also added that the man had some type of malisious intent.
    Proper spelling, capitalization, and punctuation would greatly increase the readability of your posts.
    Last edited by BB62; 06-02-2014 at 08:44 AM.

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