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Thread: Elizabeth Daly's suit against the ABC removed to Federal Court (Henry Hudson)

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    Elizabeth Daly's suit against the ABC removed to Federal Court (Henry Hudson)

    The RTD has the scoop - this was done at the request of the AG's office:
    A $40 million lawsuit filed by a University of Virginia student charged with assaulting ABC agents who mistook sparkling water for beer has been transferred to federal court.

    Elizabeth K. Daly filed the suit in Richmond Circuit Court last month, but earlier this week the Virginia Attorney General’s Office had the case transferred to U.S. District Court in Richmond, where it has been assigned to Judge Henry E. Hudson.

    Michael Kelly, a spokesman for the Attorney General’s Office, said, “The suit involves federal questions that the Attorney General’s Office believes would best be handled by federal courts.”
    If Herring is behind this, why would he do this?
    L. Steven Emmert, a Virginia Beach lawyer, said that in general, there are several other reasons why defendants may move a case from state to federal court.

    One is speed — federal courts tend to be faster and defendants with more lawyers and legal support may see an advantage over plaintiffs with fewer lawyers who must perform more work in less time.

    Also, in state court, summary judgment motions — ones requesting suits be tossed out prior to trial — are not a preferred resolution of a case, while in federal court, judges effectively test the sufficiency of the plaintiff’s case before it ever gets to a jury, Emmert said.

    Finally, he said, a jury drawn only from Richmond may be considered more liberal, based on demographics, than a federal jury for which jurors could be drawn from more conservative jurisdictions and therefore be more inclined to favor those being sued..
    I had hoped the ABC would settle; they clearly are in the wrong and materially harmed Daly, in my opinion.

    However, it looks like the ABC might attempt Summary Judgement. That would be bad.

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    Removed to federal court? That's a bone head move IMO .. federal courts do not play around with discovery crap that defendant's like to play.

    I have a 3rd motion for default due to discovery issues in a civil case I have....maybe 3rd times the charm.

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    Lawsuit survives Herring's assault

    She may proceed with false arrest and malicious prosecution:

    Parts of $40 million lawsuit against ABC to proceed
    A federal judge is allowing parts of a $40 million lawsuit to proceed against Virginia ABC agents who attempted to stop a University of Virginia student for suspected underage possession of alcohol last year in Charlottesville.

    In a 20-page ruling Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson dismissed all or parts of nine of the 12 counts in Daly’s suit: conspiracy to commit malicious prosecution, the counts against the state, and some of the assault counts against the agents.

    At this point, Hudson would not grant the Virginia attorney general’s motion to dismiss charges of false arrest, common law malicious prosecution, and assault charges involving three of the seven agents named as defendants.

    Hudson directed Daly’s lawyers to file an amended complaint merging the malicious prosecution and false arrest counts into a claim that her constitutional rights were violated.

    ...

    A spokesman for the Attorney General’s Office said, “At this time we will let Judge Hudson’s opinion … speak for itself.”
    I thought earlier the ABC admitted fault and would compensate Daly; instead they and Herring are fighting viciously.

    A shame this has to drag on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    She may proceed with false arrest and malicious prosecution:

    Parts of $40 million lawsuit against ABC to proceed


    I thought earlier the ABC admitted fault and would compensate Daly; instead they and Herring are fighting viciously.

    A shame this has to drag on.
    She, and her lawyer want/expect $40 million for her alleged PTSD. Not going to happen.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    She, and her lawyer want/expect $40 million for her alleged PTSD. Not going to happen.
    Agree that the amount seems excessive in relation to the harm.

    Though I understand the concept of starting high, IMO this makes the action seem somewhat frivolous.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Agree that the amount seems excessive in relation to the harm.

    Though I understand the concept of starting high, IMO this makes the action seem somewhat frivolous.
    The harm is that people will otherwise be arrested for carrying bottles of water. Case has merit.

    The relief sought is irrelevant to the facts and cause of action...not really tied together. Except for punitive damages argument.

    Ask for the moon....why not.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 06-26-2014 at 12:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Agree that the amount seems excessive in relation to the harm.

    Though I understand the concept of starting high, IMO this makes the action seem somewhat frivolous.
    How much did the lady get from McDonalds for a cup of coffee?

    "The jury awarded Liebeck $200,000 in compensatory damages. This amount was reduced to $160,000 because the jury found Liebeck 20 percent at fault in the spill. The jury also awarded Liebeck $2.7 million in punitive damages, which equals about two days of McDonalds' coffee sales."

    http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

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    There is nothing frivolous about $40 million. It would be nice to see a jury and the judge make the ABC cops pay up.

    This case was initiated by the ABC cops and they alone.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    For the umptenth time - Here's to hoping that they do not get to hide behind qualified immunity.

    They are supposed to be trained observers, and especially trained to recognize the various containers of alcoholic beverages. It seems they are not up to the expected standards of observation. I wonder if the have ever been evaluated on those powers of observation? (And if not, why not?)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Agree that the amount seems excessive in relation to the harm.

    Though I understand the concept of starting high, IMO this makes the action seem somewhat frivolous.
    Trial lawyers seem to do better when the amount is unspecified, thereby allowing the jury to decide.

    Of course, they have to get over the huge hurdle of "qualified immunity" -- too high here in the Fourt Circuit, but not insurmountable.

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    Daly & Herring reach out-of-court settlement: $212,500

    Well, at least she gets something: 2/3 of $212,500:

    State settles lawsuit over ABC agent bottled water stop for $212,500
    Virginia Attorney General Mark R. Herring has announced the settlement of a $40 million lawsuit against Virginia ABC agents who attempted to stop a University of Virginia student for suspected underage possession of alcohol last year in Charlottesville.

    In a release Wednesday night, Herring’s office said the student, Elizabeth Daly, will receive $212,500 and a letter from the ABC Board explaining the circumstances of her arrest for presentation to any future employers.
    A letter of explanation? How about an expungement -- at state expense?

    See what Herr Herring has to say:
    "My goal throughout this case has been to reach a resolution that is just and fair for all parties, including Ms. Daly, the ABC and its agents, and the commonwealth and its taxpayers,” Herring said in a statement. “After careful consideration of the potentially significant costs of taking this case to trial, I believe we have reached such an outcome.”

    ...

    Herring, in his statement Wednesday night, said ABC agents “do important work enforcing our alcohol laws and combating underage drinking, and the new policies and procedures implemented after this incident will help ABC effectively fulfill its mission while ensuring the safety of officers and the public.”
    Sure, let's be fair to the poor agents. After all, they do "important work" ...

    More here:

    The Daily Progress: Daly settles suit over ABC arrest for $212,500
    Daly’s lawyers and representatives from the state Attorney General’s Office reached an agreement following a settlement conference her lead counsel, James Thorsen, characterized last week as a procedural hurdle. Thorsen did not return a phone call by press time.

    The state initially offered "well under” $100,000, Thorsen has said, in response to a $1.5 million request from Daly, now 21.

    State lawyers successfully moved the case to federal court and a judge in May dismissed the state from the lawsuit but allowed charges against the seven agents on the scene that night to proceed.
    Last edited by Repeater; 07-31-2014 at 03:01 PM. Reason: More info:

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    Lucky for her and her claimed PTSD, (and the lawyer) the state didn't drop the 7 agents or she would have got nothing on what the state pays agents.

    $212K is a gift to both the alleged "victim" and the state. There was no way she would have gotten $40 million.

    Thorsen is a great lawyer. I know, I have used him.
    Last edited by va_tazdad; 07-31-2014 at 03:16 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I don't think they are going to let an expungement go through.

    ... and a letter from the ABC Board explaining the circumstances of her arrest for presentation to any future employers.
    To me that says the arrest stays on her "permanent record" but she can show anybody who failed to hire her because of her arrest record* that it really was not all that bad and everybody agreed that nobody on either side did anything wrong or illegal (no word on fattening or immoral yet).

    What also is missing is any sort of statement about instruction and training to ABC agents about distinguishing cases of bottled water from cases of beer, or the proper application of existing policy and procedure for drawing their weapons, or a few other things that I'm just too tired to spell out.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    She and her lawyers screwed up. Her lawyers should be reprimanded by their firm for settling for this and not going full press in court.

    It means open season for the ABC. A few thousand will make any 'mistakes' go away. They get to continue with their badly construed methods.

    IMO, each and every agent involved actively should receive jail time for assault and battery. Why protect them? Make them take a drug test for 'roids and rec. drugs. They sound 'hopped up' to me, especially the hood-jumper.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 07-31-2014 at 03:31 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    She and her lawyers screwed up. Her lawyers should be reprimanded by their firm for settling for this and not going full press in court.

    It means open season for the ABC. A few thousand will make any 'mistakes' go away. They get to continue with their badly construed methods.

    IMO, each and every agent involved actively should receive jail time for assault and battery. Why protect them? Make them take a drug test for 'roids and rec. drugs. They sound 'hopped up' to me, especially the hood-jumper.
    "Qualified immunity".

    Doesn't mean it's right, but in Virginia and the 4th Circuit it's pretty hard to crack that barrier.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    "Qualified immunity".

    Doesn't mean it's right, but in Virginia and the 4th Circuit it's pretty hard to crack that barrier.

    stay safe.
    Make it part of the suit - settle for 10 million and agents get tested unannounced for stimulants and 'roids. If they refuse you got 'em where it hurts - public opinion. Make a big stink of it.

    As it is now, they're free to continue these tactics.

    BTW, maybe you didn't see this part, Skid:
    State lawyers successfully moved the case to federal court and a judge in May dismissed the state from the lawsuit but allowed charges against the seven agents on the scene that night to proceed.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 07-31-2014 at 03:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I don't think they are going to let an expungement go through.



    To me that says the arrest stays on her "permanent record" but she can show anybody who failed to hire her because of her arrest record* that it really was not all that bad and everybody agreed that nobody on either side did anything wrong or illegal (no word on fattening or immoral yet).

    What also is missing is any sort of statement about instruction and training to ABC agents about distinguishing cases of bottled water from cases of beer, or the proper application of existing policy and procedure for drawing their weapons, or a few other things that I'm just too tired to spell out.

    stay safe.
    LOL You would not believe the amount of "training" being forced on the entire Bureau of Law Enforcement since that incident. The agents screw up and the whole bureau goes into [B]training overdrive on things that do NOT effect them but the agents have to know and comply with.

    It has been going on since back in January.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    LOL You would not believe the amount of "training" being forced on the entire Bureau of Law Enforcement since that incident. The agents screw up and the whole bureau goes into [B]training overdrive on things that do NOT effect them but the agents have to know and comply with.

    It has been going on since back in January.
    Whatcho sayin' Willis? What's the 'Bureau of LE'? How would you know this? No 'insider crapola' cuts it, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Make it part of the suit - settle for 10 million and agents get tested unannounced for stimulants and 'roids. If they refuse you got 'em where it hurts - public opinion. Make a big stink of it.

    As it is now, they're free to continue these tactics.

    BTW, maybe you didn't see this part, Skid:
    Unannounced drug screening already part of the job. Has been for over 20 years. If they refuse, they are terminated. They are NOT free to continue the "tactics" as you claim. They have a new "professional" overseeing the BLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    She and her lawyers screwed up. Her lawyers should be reprimanded by their firm for settling for this and not going full press in court.

    It means open season for the ABC. A few thousand will make any 'mistakes' go away. They get to continue with their badly construed methods.

    IMO, each and every agent involved actively should receive jail time for assault and battery. Why protect them? Make them take a drug test for 'roids and rec. drugs. They sound 'hopped up' to me, especially the hood-jumper.
    LOL James B Thorsen is the head of his law firm, and a highly respected attorney. If he agreed to the settlement, he knew it was all she could get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Whatcho sayin' Willis? What's the 'Bureau of LE'? How would you know this? No 'insider crapola' cuts it, either.
    BLE (Bureau of Law Enforcement) is the division of the ABC that the agents and many other employees are assigned to. Used to be called Regulatory and Enforcement. Now all agents must complete a state DCJS approved police academe and field training unlike the old days.

    Way back when, you called then "Revenuers".

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    OK, you know of what you speak taz-dad. Just color me cranky about it, then. Good to hear they're tested (allegedly).

    How do you know these things, this policy?

    To tell the truth I don't really care about her suit, her outcome. I just want the ABC monitored and on a short leash. No more of this quasi-military style training, if any, no more going after buyers when the onus should be on the sellers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Lucky for her and her claimed PTSD, (and the lawyer) the state didn't drop the 7 agents or she would have got nothing on what the state pays agents.

    $212K is a gift to both the alleged "victim" and the state. There was no way she would have gotten $40 million.

    Thorsen is a great lawyer. I know, I have used him.
    I agree with you. In all likelihood, this was the best she could get.

    What was important was this: although Judge Hudson dismissed the lawsuit against the state, the suit against the agents could go forward -- as you pointed out.

    I wonder what a jury would have thought? Hmmmm.....

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    $140K (maybe taxable, rules on this is a nightmare, if so, 91K in pocket) possible in pocket...

    Once a summary judgment has been overcome (unless its a slam-dunk case) then offers start to be in earnest.

    No SJ? Then usually after a trial date is set.

    I could buy some nice guns and stuff for 91K ....

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    OK, you know of what you speak taz-dad. Just color me cranky about it, then. Good to hear they're tested (allegedly).

    How do you know these things, this policy?

    To tell the truth I don't really care about her suit, her outcome. I just want the ABC monitored and on a short leash. No more of this quasi-military style training, if any, no more going after buyers when the onus should be on the sellers.
    The gentleman (and yes, he is one) does have inside information which, probably for good reasons, he chooses not to reveal under his nom de guerre.

    It's nice to have that tidbit about training slipped out. It sets up both the individual agent and their superiors for some nastiness should this sort of incident be repeated. It also quashes qualified immunity.

    Just pray that ABC does not terminate an offending agent based on "they were not complying with instruction, policy, and procedure when they committed the alleged act so were not acting as an employee of the Commonwealth at the time of the alleged incident." (Yes, I have seen that done several times - removes the Commonwealth from any civil suit and opens the former employee to a situation where they would be better off committing sepeku than have to turn over 25% of their paycheck for the rest of their life, as well as having almost everything they own auctioned off.*)

    stay safe.

    * - it was not until 2002 that the law was updated to delete the exemption of one mule and added the exemption of one automobile. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/leg...?000+cod+34-26
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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