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GUN FIRST BUY (buy back)

Ruger

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
545
Location
Occupied Greensboro, North Carolina, United States
I'm planning to go with a friend. Money is tight for me, so I doubt I will be a buyer, but my buddy is hoping to get a shotgun. There is a city park across the street from the buyback location & a sidewalk runs the length of the street, so no worries about being accused of trespassing on private property :)

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Ruger

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
545
Location
Occupied Greensboro, North Carolina, United States
It was a bust. We arrived at 8:55. From 3 different entrances into the neighborhood, cars were lined up for the event & officers were approaching the vehicles. The first words out of the officer's mouth were "We're all out of money." This was 5 minutes before the scheduled start time. The officer was insistent that they don't want anyone getting out of their vehicles. I explained our intent & my interpretation of the law in that we would not be doing anything illegal. The cop was polite, but admitted point-blank that they don't want other people taking the guns that are being brought here.

I appealed to him, "Look - y'all are out of money & it's obvious that there are lots more people here with guns they don't want. I ain't here to cause trouble. To the best of my knowledge there's nothing illegal about what I intend to do. I just figure maybe there's some blue haired old lady with her husband's old WWII 1911 or service revolver who doesn't know what she's got & doesn't want it anymore. I'm a gun owner. I have no criminal record. I like guns and I like bargains. I'd love to give a good home to an unwanted gun or two."

He called his supervisor over. I went through the same thing with him. He asked if I am a dealer (no). Eventually he agreed that we could stand on the corner and attempt to purchase from the folks who were showing up, "since you have a permit."

Me: "Huh? Permit?"
Supervisor: "You do have a solicitation permit, right?"
Me: "No. Never heard of such a thing."
Supervisor: "In Winston Salem you have to have a solicitation permit in order to stand on public property in attempt to buy/sell."
Me: "Nice." [sarcasm]

That ended it for us. That neighborhood was crawling with cops. I didn't drive there to get arrested for failing to have a solicitation permit. I Googled it - WSPD *does* arrest folks for violating this law. The permit does exist.

I figure since this is the 3rd such event the city has held in the last year, and since this one was such a smashing success (in their view), there's bound to be another one. So next time when my buddy & I show up we will have permits to solicit.

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bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
786
Location
Fayetteville NC
Thanks for the report Ruger.

Sounds like a "bait and switch" was pulled: Advertise the reimbursement, and then claim there is no money, but still take the guns.
 

ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
The permit does not apply to buying, only selling, it appears.

I had the same thought.

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Here is the article that I wrote using "Ruger"'s account.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/04/ncpolice-shut-down-private-buyers-at.html

From the Winston Salem code:

Every itinerant salesman or merchant who shall expose for sale, either on the street or in a house rented temporarily for that purpose, or from railroad cars, any goods, wares or merchandise, bankrupt stock or fire stock, not being a regular merchant in the city, shall apply for in advance and procure a city license from the revenue collector for the privilege of transacting such business.
 
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MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
It was a bust.
He called his supervisor over. I went through the same thing with him. He asked if I am a dealer (no). Eventually he agreed that we could stand on the corner and attempt to purchase from the folks who were showing up, "since you have a permit."
I figure since this is the 3rd such event the city has held in the last year, and since this one was such a smashing success (in their view), there's bound to be another one. So next time when my buddy & I show up we will have permits to solicit.

Sorry it did not work out. There is no telling as to what treasures were on the ground that day.
mayor macgrimm of seattle fame attempted this after the last "buy back" in seattle. We were EVERYWHERE during the BB fiasco and we saved some great weapons. When macgrimm said he was going to "ban " us from buying, I applied for an received a "vendors license" for a paltry thirty bucks. My attempted preemptive strike was moot as macgrimm did not get reelected and we will not be seeing another sale soon.
Good luck on the next one for you.
 
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papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
I would like to keep an eye on this. if any of you hear about a government gun buy let us know.

if nothing else we could hold up signs in protest

i find the "solicitation law" curious does any one have a cite for it
 

ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
I suspect that the restrictions placed on you under color of law are actionable

It is cited in the article ccwinstructor linked to.

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According to what I read, the police supervisor violated your rights of assembly and free speech under color of law. I do not know how many witnesses you had. I suspect at least the regular police officer as well as you and the supervisor. If there are any others, i might be wise to obtain written statements from them before the memory starts to fade.

This could easily be a multi thousand dollar settlement, because it is so clear cut. At a minimum, retraining of the officers is necessary.

You might find an attorney to take this. It is very clear. You are out your time and travel expenses, as well as your ability to make a political statement, because I believe that the desire here was to suppress the thought that guns are valued items, protected by the Constitution.

If I come across others who may also have been victimized, I will attempt to put them in touch with you.
 
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Ruger

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
545
Location
Occupied Greensboro, North Carolina, United States

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
They're conducting the buyback under the authority of the city council. The city government doesn't have to apply to itself for a permit. (???)

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Maybe just a point to push .. anyway the guys there were looking to purchase for non-commercial reasons .. no need for permit.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
sorry, ruger, et al., as you discerned you'll got lied to...the statute(s) 34-23 cited pertain specifically to individuals (peddlers, if you will) who are 'SELLING' whether it be as an itinerate or pan handler who 'SELLS' merchandise or collect alms in the case of the pan handler on the city's byways or other public sites.

and to qualify for the privilege license, you must be a resident for the preceding 12 months (34-23(e)).

the question raised by the officer of you being a dealer is an interesting one since 14-402(a) states you must have either a PPP (i) or CHP (ii) and i wonder if a FFL would have been given wider latitude by the police.

again the police are not SELLING, they are buying...you would have to look at the pawn shop ordinances and because the pawn shop only 'holds a customer's property as collateral not sure the buy back pgm is the same.

recommend a foia query to see if a report or video of your encounter was made
ipse
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Nor execute a Firearms Transaction Record ATF Form 4473 though the city is arguably dealing commercially in guns.

sorry the 4473 is required for use by an FFL for the sale of firearms and i presume the city is considered a private entity while buying firearms.

my query concerns who oversees the overseers to assure the firearms are appropriately disposed of and what NC statute are the good city/county LEs going to follow since the firearms were not 'confiscated' per se from the bad guys? wonder if FOIA would apply to ascertain the specifics about the collection and disposal?

also of interest, is 14-63.1, Sale, disposal, and destruction of firearms. specifically (d) which allows the dept of admin to sell surplus weapons to FFLs? yes these are city LEs so they might not fall under the state's statute purview...

ipse
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
interestingly, while possibly noted previously, WS ordinance 38-10 (c) states it is unlawful for any person to posses or open carry any handgun, gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm on or in any city-owned or operated park, parking area, building, included the appurtenant premises, grounds or parking areas of those building regardless of whether such city-owned or operated property is within or outside the corporate limits.

not sure what outside the corporate limits truly entails but wouldn't that would cover the rest of the world?

ipse
 
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