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Thread: Where is the Clark County sheriff on the Bundy ranch thing

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    Where is the Clark County sheriff on the Bundy ranch thing

    Is he hiding under his desk or is he out supporting Clive Bundy? Has he considered in ordering the BLM to leave as he has the authority to do that very thing. There will be many people at the Bundy ranch open carrying firearms how will he handle that?

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Since when has involving our sheriff's department actually HELPED a tense situation?

    Are you looking for someone to fire the first shots?
    Last edited by MAC702; 04-11-2014 at 11:02 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    I'm guessing that if Gestapo Doug sent his goons out there, it would be in support of the federal jack booted thugs, against the citizens he is sworn to protect...

    TBG
    Last edited by The Big Guy; 04-11-2014 at 11:45 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    I'm guessing that if Gestapo Doug sent his goons out there, it would be in support of the federal jack booted thugs, against the citizens he is sworn to protect...

    TBG
    I'd bet on it.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    You mean he's not willing to take a position against federal agents following lawful orders to remove cattle from someone who refused to pay a fee of a dollar per head per month..... And who defied three different levels of federal courts and caused all kinds of environmental damage while practically stealing public resources? Who would've guessed?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    I just hope that he has plenty of fire extinguishers on hand.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    You mean he's not willing to take a position against federal agents following lawful orders to remove cattle from someone who refused to pay a fee of a dollar per head per month..... And who defied three different levels of federal courts and caused all kinds of environmental damage while practically stealing public resources? Who would've guessed?
    Cite the constitutional authority of the Feds in these actions.

    Yes a sheriff can take a stand for the people of his state against the feds,,,,that is supposed to be the design of the federation of sovereign states, the states created the Federal government not the other way around.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    You mean he's not willing to take a position against federal agents following lawful orders to remove cattle from someone who refused to pay a fee of a dollar per head per month..... And who defied three different levels of federal courts and caused all kinds of environmental damage while practically stealing public resources? Who would've guessed?
    We need individuals to stand up to these so called "lawful orders" Japanese internment camps would have been a nice time to start. Jailing people for simply educating slaves was done under "lawful order." It seems that the true cattle are the ones who blindly do what they are told, finding themselves justifying the loading of humans onto train cars.

    You wrote:
    And who defied three different levels of federal courts
    Lets look at others who have done the same:

    • The Founding fathers
    • Underground Railroad
    • Original Tea Party Participants in Boston

    Does the "theater" of court somehow make immoral acts moral?

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    We need individuals to stand up to these so called "lawful orders" Japanese internment camps would have been a nice time to start. Jailing people for simply educating slaves was done under "lawful order." It seems that the true cattle are the ones who blindly do what they are told, finding themselves justifying the loading of humans onto train cars.

    You wrote:

    Lets look at others who have done the same:

    • The Founding fathers
    • Underground Railroad
    • Original Tea Party Participants in Boston

    Does the "theater" of court somehow make immoral acts moral?
    Aren't you precious
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    A pejorative? Why in the world a personal attack? (Half of the alternative meanings of precious are pejorative.)
    EM is obviously a statist wh_ore, that's why the personal attack.
    Last edited by ed2276; 04-12-2014 at 06:43 PM.

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    This may be a more complicated situation than it appears. I believe Bundy and his family have been ranching there since 1870; it would seem that he has a right to the land. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, as it is said.

    The complication may be: did the state of Nevada, through the legislature, cede that state land to the federal government, or did it just allow the feds to manage the land for limited purposes, while the state still retains sole possession of the land? There was an old case where a man committed a murder at a shipyard, which was occupied and managed by the feds, with state permission. However, the state never ceded the shipyard to the feds, thus retaining possession as state property. The man was charged in federal court with murder. The federal judge threw out the indictment; he found that the feds had no jurisdiction over the shipyard, as the state never ceded it to the feds. The man was then tried for murder in state court.

    If Nevada ceded the land to the feds, the feds can pretty much do what they want with the land, unless there were limitations placed by the state as a condition for ceding the land. If the state still retains possession, the state has jurisdiction over the land; the feds do not.
    Last edited by ed2276; 04-12-2014 at 06:53 PM.

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    I don't think that the state can give the land to the feds even if they wanted to ...

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    You mean he's not willing to take a position against federal agents following lawful orders to remove cattle from someone who refused to pay a fee of a dollar per head per month..... And who defied three different levels of federal courts and caused all kinds of environmental damage while practically stealing public resources? Who would've guessed?
    Please get in line, as it will make it easier for the feds to round you up when they're done with cattle and turn their attention to sheep.

    TBG
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    You mean he's not willing to take a position against federal agents following lawful orders to remove cattle from someone who refused to pay a fee of a dollar per head per month..... And who defied three different levels of federal courts and caused all kinds of environmental damage while practically stealing public resources? Who would've guessed?
    Do you really know what you are talking about? “Caused all kinds of environmental damage while practically stealing public resources?” Have you ever been on the land the cows were grazing on? Just what kind of environmental damage are you talking about. The biggest part of the area is barren desert not good for much else. He had turned this barren land into a food producing area for decades. Creating local Jobs.
    What kind of public resources are being stolen? Are you talking about the just under one million tax dollars the BLM spent to contract the outfit and helicopter used in rounding up the cattle?

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Yes a sheriff can take a stand for the people of his state against the feds,,,,that is supposed to be the design of the federation of sovereign states, the states created the Federal government not the other way around.
    +1 Very true.

    Any chance the Sheriff will get voted out in the next election cycle?
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    +1 Very true.

    Any chance the Sheriff will get voted out in the next election cycle?
    He is retiring. One of his assistants will win the election. It's a very corrupt and well-established system here.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    Do you really know what you are talking about? “Caused all kinds of environmental damage while practically stealing public resources?” Have you ever been on the land the cows were grazing on? Just what kind of environmental damage are you talking about. The biggest part of the area is barren desert not good for much else. He had turned this barren land into a food producing area for decades. Creating local Jobs.
    What kind of public resources are being stolen? Are you talking about the just under one million tax dollars the BLM spent to contract the outfit and helicopter used in rounding up the cattle?
    Clearly you're not familiar with the effects of over grazing, the plants the cattle graze provide ground cover, their roots hold the ground together, overgrazing loosens the ground and can cause dust owls. Irregardless the land is not owned by him. He has no constitutional right to graze his cattle wherever he wants, "creating jobs" does not exempt you from the law. Since people here are big into stupid comparisons, that's like saying its wrong to prosecutes mob members because they create jobs....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    A pejorative? Why in the world a personal attack? (Half of the alternative meanings of precious are pejorative.)
    Why even try to reason with him? He thinks enforcing a court order basically saying you can't graze for free on land you don't own is the same as loading people on the freight cars to treblinka, someone this paranoid cannot be reasoned with. The escalation is being caused entirely by Mr. bundys chronic refusals and incitement to violence over an issue he could've resolved a decade ago
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Clearly you're not familiar with the effects of over grazing, the plants the cattle graze provide ground cover, their roots hold the ground together, overgrazing loosens the ground and can cause dust owls. Irregardless the land is not owned by him. He has no constitutional right to graze his cattle wherever he wants, "creating jobs" does not exempt you from the law. Since people here are big into stupid comparisons, that's like saying its wrong to prosecutes mob members because they create jobs....
    That clearly proves one thing you clearly have absolutely no idea about the area he is grazing. Your willingness to base you objection on assassin assumptions and non-existing comparisons is in my opinion a indcation of a person that just likes to read their own postings and not worthy of anymore comments.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Clearly you're not familiar with the effects of over grazing, the plants the cattle graze provide ground cover, their roots hold the ground together, overgrazing loosens the ground and can cause dust owls. ...
    I've personally walked the land in question. It is not overgrazed or suffering from what you describe.

    I am not an expert in anything else related to this issue, however, and have reserved judgment of Mr. Bundy.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Looks like WE are the cattle that the gov't wants to kill

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...anch-land.html

    What the heck is this? Its enough reason to fight by itself

    But I am willing to compromise ... a link below shows my map of 1st amend. zones (in yellow)

    http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/usa_map.htm
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 04-14-2014 at 12:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    You mean he's not willing to take a position against federal agents following lawful orders to remove cattle from someone who refused to pay a fee of a dollar per head per month..... And who defied three different levels of federal courts and caused all kinds of environmental damage while practically stealing public resources? Who would've guessed?
    Around 1993 the BLM reduced the number of cattle that could graze to 150 head max, due to the tortoise canard. He, Mr. Bundy, refused to reduce his heard, and his grazing permit was canceled in 1994 and the allotment (the land) was closed to all grazing. Mr. Bundy then attempted to pay his grazing fee to the county, they refused to accept. It seems the BLM has been working to oust all ranchers from that land at the behest of environuts for 20 years now. Mr. Bundy is the lone holdout.

    It is reported the land has been improved, as is evident from Mr. Bundy increasing the size of his heard over the years. It is reported that Mr. Bundy used his money, that his fees should have been used for, to maintain and improve the land.

    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014...ully-not-hero/

    Mr. Bundy has been attending to his side of the bargain, made long ago with the feds. A bargain that the feds reneged on 20years ago based on junk science.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  23. #23
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I've personally walked the land in question. It is not overgrazed or suffering from what you describe.

    I am not an expert in anything else related to this issue, however, and have reserved judgment of Mr. Bundy.
    As of now it's not because he's the only one grazing there. One person or a small group of people are not enough to do damage, however if the message gets out that one person can get away with it, then it will encourage many more people to do the same thing. Then it becomes an issue.

    bundy has zero ownership of the land. If it were his ranch he owned then i would be right with everyone else on this one. But it's not. He's demanding to use public land as he sees fit. This would be like if a logger went into the olympic national forest and cut down trees without a permit then refused to pay the fines. If the law is not enforced it will encourage further law breaking. And I can see no constitutional interest in Uncle Sam subsidizing your cattle feed. I actually think it's unfair to ranchers who own their ranches or pay to fill their feedlots
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    As of now it's not because he's the only one grazing there. One person or a small group of people are not enough to do damage, however if the message gets out that one person can get away with it, then it will encourage many more people to do the same thing. Then it becomes an issue.

    bundy has zero ownership of the land. If it were his ranch he owned then i would be right with everyone else on this one. But it's not. He's demanding to use public land as he sees fit. This would be like if a logger went into the olympic national forest and cut down trees without a permit then refused to pay the fines. If the law is not enforced it will encourage further law breaking. And I can see no constitutional interest in Uncle Sam subsidizing your cattle feed. I actually think it's unfair to ranchers who own their ranches or pay to fill their feedlots
    Maybe I'm mistaken here. Admittedly I know very little about what is going on other than just reading a couple of news articles, but from what I read over the last two days from news articles (which cannot always be trusted for reliable information), it makes it sound like his family had been there since before the federal government claimed control and suddenly imposed fees which, in order for Bundy to pay, would require him also to sign that he agrees to scale his operation back to almost nothing as well.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 04-16-2014 at 11:59 AM.

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    As of now it's not because he's the only one grazing there. One person or a small group of people are not enough to do damage, however if the message gets out that one person can get away with it, then it will encourage many more people to do the same thing. Then it becomes an issue.

    bundy has zero ownership of the land. If it were his ranch he owned then i would be right with everyone else on this one. But it's not. He's demanding to use public land as he sees fit. This would be like if a logger went into the olympic national forest and cut down trees without a permit then refused to pay the fines. If the law is not enforced it will encourage further law breaking. And I can see no constitutional interest in Uncle Sam subsidizing your cattle feed. I actually think it's unfair to ranchers who own their ranches or pay to fill their feedlots
    Why do you insist that the land belongs to the Feds? By what right do they tell us what we should do with OUR public lands here in NV and for that matter all of the western states? You need to get this concept, the Federal Government is a creature of the states, not the other way around.

    MOLON LABE. We're ready.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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