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Very anti OC website "ActiveResponseTraining" dot net

tomrkba

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
125
Location
Virginia
It is very simple: go to Ellifritz to learn how to save a life with a medical kit. Ignore anything else he has to say about carry. These are his opinions and they do not negate the medical training.

There was also one in Virginia I believe it was that was also discussed, however I am sure it was also dismissed for some other criteria to keep the claim alive. I won't be wasting any time looking it up to cite if you are interested look it up.

A man in Centreville, VA was robbed late at night when two men jumped him and pressed a metal object to his neck. They stole his gun.

Contrary to that, several criminals waited until OC'ers left Waffle House. A cop noticed their behavior, investigated, knew at least one to be a felon and somehow ended up arresting them. Ah...here it is: http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw
 
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LMTD

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
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i believe the term hyperbole still applies to your perception of a gun grab from a citizen...

ipse

And your reading comprehension still fails.

It is actually really simple. The criteria being used for evaluation make the statistic work, something the anti's do a lot.

I am not too worried about being embarrassed about my response to a statistic that is built in a manner designed to get the desired result, you however are quite welcome to worship it as the holy proof you wish it was sir.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
And your reading comprehension still fails.

It is actually really simple. The criteria being used for evaluation make the statistic work, something the anti's do a lot.

I am not too worried about being embarrassed about my response to a statistic that is built in a manner designed to get the desired result, you however are quite welcome to worship it as the holy proof you wish it was sir.

sorry, you unequivocally made a statement about 'citizen gun grabs', i, in an apparent misguided attempt to understand the concept from your perspective and to eliminate possible hyperbole with the intent to possibly learn'g from some citizen's misfortune to preclude my own future error in judgment of having my OC'd firearm snatched from me. For example, wrong holster w/o retention, wrong holster for the firearm, etc.

and as you state...given enough time i also believe in the infinite monkey theorem which will perhaps produce a viable cite which will result in your use which shows a gun snatch from some citizen somewhere...

however, since you bring up the anti's statistical concepts as a defense against my simple request for a cite, is it any different then the hyperbole you spew as Gospel? both concepts are incredulous from my perspective, as bloomberg's group found out.

ipse
 
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LMTD

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sorry, you unequivocally made a statement about 'citizen gun grabs',

however, since you bring up the anti's statistical concepts as a defense against my simple request for a cite, is it any different then the hyperbole you spew as Gospel? both concepts are incredulous from my perspective.

ipse

No, I made a statement about the criteria being used for the claim. Throughout that discussion it was clarified that it is actually even more restrictive in that no other crime may be involved which really adds some comedy to the entire pretend statistic.

I have already conceded that no one is going to meet the criteria, you are just seeking to continue to misuse the word hyperbole and I find it comical watching you do so and I continue to engage out of pure entertainment value alone.

Again you completely fail at reading comprehension, I never brought up the anti's as a defense for your request, I said the narrow criteria such as explained by OTHERS in this thread make it clear, it is altered to make it fit the statistic instead of being any kind of meaningful information.

You give yourself far far too much credit.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
The lack of comprehension regarding this is.......incomprehensible.

Substitute eyeglasses or hat snatch/grab in the text and see if you get it. Having either taken in the course of another crime is not a snatch/grab. If someone puts a gun to your head and relieves you of a possession, it is not a snatch/grab.

A pickpocket may relieve you of your wallet (sneaky snatch), but if he first confronts you with a gun pointed at you, he is not picking your pocket, even if he actually reaches into your pocket for his prize. OTOH - women's purses are historically much more liable to be snatched. No cite provided.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
In other words, it is the technique that is used to relieve a OCer of his gat, not the crime that is committed by the snatch of the gat. So, when is the snatch transformed into a crime? I mean, if the BG only touches your gat has he committed a crime...yet?

Funny thing our perspective is, myopic at times me thinks.
 

LMTD

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OTOH - women's purses are historically much more liable to be snatched. No cite provided.

And that would be one of the reasons for not using purse carry. When your firearm is not in some way attached to your person be it holster or hand it has an increased risk of coming into someone elses control.

These are NOT cites for the impossible, they however did provide a bit of entertaining reading and will assist solus with his continued misuse of "hyperbole" which I tend to enjoy :)

http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Dottys-worker-snatched-shotgun-from-robber-232668771.html

Now I am having fun with this. Here ya go, this lady grabed the firearm from the OC'er and the ONLY goal she had was the gun. Sorry no holster involved so i guess it does not count. :)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...hes-a-bird-out-of-the-air-with-his-bare-hand/

This one involves a firearm but he does not grab it or take a shot. Instead the quail hunter realizes the bird has a bad backstop for a shot so he grabs it out of the air with his hand, video included :) Cool stuff and I would have lost a ton of money betting that this had never happened, some say the video is faked, that has yet to be proven but I suppose it could be these days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydjL7vTPWF4

Another shot gun grabbed that is being openly carried, gotta find one in a holster eh?

http://www.rockdalecitizen.com/news/2009/may/30/pawn-shop-gun-grab-incites-police-chase/

Well it was openly displayed and then handed to him and he ran with it, oops, missing the holster eh?

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/95999354.html

Well not a snatch but does being robbed of the gun while openly carried in a holster at gun point count? Nah, you already said that!

BTW at what point did it become "snatch only"? Most of the anti-OCer comments I have seen tend to be "snatched from you and used against you" which lends itself to more than one crime. Can't speak to all states but in MO it would likely be theft, armed criminal action and felonious assault... Ooooooops I see another cite request in the near future, befre anyone waste their time, it was a hyperbolic statement filled with mischief.

As in all good things, they must come to an end and this hyperbolic hyperbolizing of the hyperboles which have hyperbolized all of the hyperbole need to remember not to hyperbolically relate to hyperbola as it is a geometric term and that would just be hyperbolical.

Peace Grapeshot, I will go back to my hole now :)
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
And that would be one of the reasons for not using purse carry. When your firearm is not in some way attached to your person be it holster or hand it has an increased risk of coming into someone elses control.

These are NOT cites for the impossible, they however did provide a bit of entertaining reading and will assist solus with his continued misuse of "hyperbole" which I tend to enjoy :)

http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Dottys-worker-snatched-shotgun-from-robber-232668771.html

Now I am having fun with this. Here ya go, this lady grabed the firearm from the OC'er and the ONLY goal she had was the gun. Sorry no holster involved so i guess it does not count. :)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...hes-a-bird-out-of-the-air-with-his-bare-hand/

This one involves a firearm but he does not grab it or take a shot. Instead the quail hunter realizes the bird has a bad backstop for a shot so he grabs it out of the air with his hand, video included :) Cool stuff and I would have lost a ton of money betting that this had never happened, some say the video is faked, that has yet to be proven but I suppose it could be these days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydjL7vTPWF4

Another shot gun grabbed that is being openly carried, gotta find one in a holster eh?

http://www.rockdalecitizen.com/news/2009/may/30/pawn-shop-gun-grab-incites-police-chase/

Well it was openly displayed and then handed to him and he ran with it, oops, missing the holster eh?

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/95999354.html

Well not a snatch but does being robbed of the gun while openly carried in a holster at gun point count? Nah, you already said that!

BTW at what point did it become "snatch only"? Most of the anti-OCer comments I have seen tend to be "snatched from you and used against you" which lends itself to more than one crime. Can't speak to all states but in MO it would likely be theft, armed criminal action and felonious assault... Ooooooops I see another cite request in the near future, befre anyone waste their time, it was a hyperbolic statement filled with mischief.

As in all good things, they must come to an end and this hyperbolic hyperbolizing of the hyperboles which have hyperbolized all of the hyperbole need to remember not to hyperbolically relate to hyperbola as it is a geometric term and that would just be hyperbolical.

Peace Grapeshot, I will go back to my hole now :)

Is it a hyperhole? :lol:
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Ok, well I am still not sure what it is you are asking for so I just grabbed you one of each. A security guard being disarmed and robbed, a drug buyer disarmed and robbed, a gun store customer ask to see a gun and ammo then loads it and robs, and a ccw person whom is taken from behind and disarmed then robbed. Now that one does not state a ccw but it references the gun in his pocket. i suppose it could have been sticking out of his pocket and there fore would qualify as an OC event but that would render the entire discussion moot.

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/21431523/suspects-take-gun-from-security-guard-in-pharmacy-robbery
http://www.questia.com/newspaper/1G1-126536261/restaurateur-beaten-robbed-with-own-gun
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/...014/Police-Man-robbed-Lansing-his-own-handgun
http://www.wcnc.com/news/crime/Gastonia-man-robbed-with-his-own-hand-gun-150315515.html
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...isbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=L00EAAAAIBAJ&pg=3741,6360890

One incident a NON civilian security guard does not even come close.
Second one clearly a concealed handgun.
One was not snatched the seller HANDED him the gun.
Gastonia incident does not clarify that the carrier was open carrying.

Care to try with some legitimate cites, of actual gun grabs of OC citizens? I am surprised that you pulled the stunt above...
 

LMTD

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
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Care to try with some legitimate cites, of actual gun grabs of OC citizens? I am surprised that you pulled the stunt above...

Should have tried reading the words that went along with it.

UTB ww, UTB
 

PeterNSteinmetz

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
177
Location
Tempe, Arizona
I think this discussion did bring up an interesting point. If the objective of the challenge is to refute the general statement " open carrying makes you a target" - why should a gun being taken from an OC'er during the commission of another crime generally be excluded?

It seems like a common meaning of the general statement could be that criminals are more likely to attack the OC'er to commit some crime, even if not simple theft of the gun. Admittedly, another interpretation of the statement is "you will be attacked to take your gun", but that may not be even the most common interpretation.

Mind you, I strongly suspect most criminals will look for people not carrying weapons. But perhaps it would be interesting to characterize incidents which involve other crimes as well.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
The snatch is the crime and no further criminal activity is witnessed after the snatch...snatch and run if you will. You get that exact instance documented and then there will be one instance.....the statistical probability remains intact.

If the snatch and run fails.....the statistical probability remains intact.

If there is no snatch and run attempted.....the statistical probability remains intact.

It is all about the "statistical probability" remaining intact at this point in the discussion, which leads those who give a rip about the statistical probability the comfort in knowing that their position is unassailable.

Neerner Neener Neener...:p
 
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