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Thread: State Park firearm question?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    State Park firearm question?

    My wife and I went to "Lake Lureen State Park" today to see what the camping rule were and found a sign
    during the entrance of the parks roadway that prohibits firearms in this park.
    Now on arrival to the gate I asked for a rule pamphlet, I read it and this is what they are giving out which is
    different then the online rules.
    I did take a picture of the sign but it will NOT upload for some darn reason.

    Rules in pamphlet they are handing out
    Rule #8.
    Prohibited Devices (220-5-.08)
    (1)
    It shall be unlawful for any person other than a duly authorized law enforcement officer to possess or carry into any State Park any form of firearm without written permission of the manager or custodian in charge of the State Park visited. No person shall possess, discharge or set off on or within a State park any firecrackers, torpedoes, rockets, cap pistols, or other fireworks.


    Rules on web page; http://www.alapark.com/parks/pdfs/Ru...egulations.pdf
    8.
    Prohibited Devices (220-5-.08)
    (1)
    It shall be unlawful for any person other than a duly authorized law enforcement officer to possess or carry into any State Park any form of firearm without written permission of the manager or custodian in charge of the State Park visited; provided, however, nothing in this regulation prohibits the possession of handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the handguns are not used for any unlawful purpose. No person shall possess, discharge or set off on or within a State park any firecrackers, torpedoes, rockets, cap pistols, or other fireworks.

    Now with the underlined statement above does this exclude unlicensed open Carry????
    Last edited by Rick H; 04-12-2014 at 10:05 PM. Reason: Forgot web page url
    God Bless America.

  2. #2
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    The pamphlet is outdated. The current rule was amended in 2010 to allow handguns by licensed persons for personal protection.

    Alabama Administrative Code Chapter 220-5

    http://www.alabamaadministrativecode...con_/220-5.pdf


    Tannehill Historical State Park has different rules that don't allow firearms at all:

    CHAPTER 885-1-3 CAMPING REGULATIONS - FIRE ARMS AND FIRE WORKS

    885-1-3-.01 No Person Other Than Duly Authorized Law_Enforcement Officers Shall Be Permitted To Carry Or Possess_Any Fire Arms Within The Park - All Permits Notwithstanding. No person other than duly authorized law enforcement officers shall be permitted to carry or possess any fire arms within the park. All permits notwithstanding.

    http://www.alabamaadministrativecode...tan/index.html



    Code of Alabama 1975

    Section 41-9-325
    Commission a state agency; commission to have exclusive control over Tannehill Furnace and Foundry; rule making and police power.
    The commission shall be a state agency and shall have exclusive control over the Tannehill Furnace and Foundry and the area appurtenant thereto, the memorial park established under this division, all improvements and exhibits located thereon and any additions constructed, created, leased, acquired or erected in connection therewith. The commission shall have the power and authority to establish and promulgate and from time to time alter, amend or repeal rules and regulations concerning the preservation, protection and use of the Tannehill Furnace and Foundry and the memorial park and to preserve the peace therein. Any person who violates any rule or regulation so established and promulgated shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000.00 or imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, and may be adjudged to pay all costs of the proceedings. The commissioners shall have and are hereby vested with full police power to prefer charges against and to make arrests of any person or persons violating any such rule or regulation. The commission shall have full authority to designate any employee or employees of the commission as deputy police officers, who shall have full authority to prefer charges against or to make arrests of any person or persons violating any rule or regulation established and promulgated by the commission as provided hereunder.

    (Acts 1969, No. 994, p. 1760, §6; Acts 1979, No. 79-606, p. 1074.)
    Last edited by 49er; 04-13-2014 at 06:24 PM.

  3. #3
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    While I'm at it, I may as well tell you about gun control on our state owned public lands too. Commissioner Guy has his own brand of gun control on OUR lands, including "Forever Wild" lands. Forever Wild is just another way of saying "Forever Under Government Control":

    220-4-.15 Regulation Of Certain Conduct On Lands Under State
    Lands Division Jurisdiction.

    (1) Except as otherwise authorized in writing by the
    Director of the State Lands Division, it shall be unlawful on any
    state-owned lands under the jurisdiction of the State Lands
    Division:

    (a) To hunt, trap, use dogs,<<< possess firearms,>>> traps,
    or bow and arrow, without a proper license.

    (b) For any person to carry in or on a vehicle, any of
    the following: any firearms (including pistols) with ammunition
    in the magazine, breech or clip attached to firearms, or black
    powder weapons with primer, cap or flash powder in place, or
    cocked crossbows.

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    Unfortunately, The Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources is NOT Enumerated under Alabama Code 13A-11-61.3(b)(6) as a 'Political Subdivision'.

    Nevertheless, I was able to Find 1 Law Specifically Prohibiting Firearms on Property under Their Control.

    Alabama Code 9-11-304, Pertaining to The Possession of a Firearm within State Wildlife Management Areas, Provides as Follows:
    http://alisondb.legislature.state.al...975/coatoc.htm

    Nevertheless, it would be My Interpretation of that Law that The Verbiage '..., except while in Possession of a Valid Permit Allowing This Privilege,...' would Authorize a Person who has Lawfully been Issued a Pistol Permit to that a Firearm on The Premises of a Wildlife Management Area.

    There seems to be NO Law Governing The Possession of a Firearm at a State Park, except for Departmental Policy. In as much as The Policy Runs Contrary to Public Policy within Alabama, The Tenants of 13A-11-61.3 do NOT Seem to Prevent This Type of Administrative Regulation.

    aadvark

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    This is the preemptive law that supersedes all of that:

    Constitution of Alabama 1901

    Article 1 Declaration of Rights.

    That the great, general, and essential principles of liberty and free government may be recognized and established, we declare:

    SECTION 26
    Right to bear arms.
    That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.

    SECTION 36
    Construction of Declaration of Rights.
    That this enumeration of certain rights shall not impair or deny others retained by the people; and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, we declare that everything in this Declaration of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate.



    The Constitutional Convention of 1901 rejected language that would have delegated authority to the legislature to regulate the bearing of arms for defense:


    REJECTED:

    Day 7
    Ordinance No. 87, by Mr. Ferguson:
    An Ordinance concerning the right of citizens to bear arms.
    Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, That in lieu of Section 27 of Article I. of the Constitution of 1875, the following provision shall be enacted:
    Section ---. That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the State, but the General Assembly shall have the power to regulate the bearing of small arms, shall define the same, and shall pass laws requiring a license for the bearing of such small arms.
    Note--For the benefit of the Committee the following authorities are cited:
    Miller vs. Texas, 153 U. S. P., 533, and authorities there cited: 92 U. S. P. 542 ; 116 U. S. P. 252.
    Referred to Committee on Preamble and bill of Rights.


    REJECTED:

    Day 8
    Ordinance No. 131, by Mr. Murphree:
    Relates to duelling, concealed pistols and other deadly weapons.
    Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in convention assembled, That
    Section 47, Article IV of the Constitution of Alabama, be and is hereby amended so as to read as follows:
    The General Assembly shall pass such penal laws as they may deem expedient to suppress the evil practice of dueling and carrying pistols and other deadly weapons concealed.

  6. #6
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    49er:

    I Agree with Your Assertion that Section 26 of Article 1 of The Constitution of Alabama of 1901 would Provide Constitutional Protection beyond The Merits of Current Statutory Law Embedded under Alabama Code 13A-11-61.3.

    However, it is within My Belief that This Argument would be more Sound if The Legislature were to Pass a Resolution Calling upon a Constitutional Convention of Alabamas' Voters to Rewrite that Section to Include Language that would Provide for Strict Scrutiny Analysis of that Right.

    aadvark

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    Here's your strict scrutiny:

    Our Alabama Supreme Court has declared:

    "Article I, § 14, Const. of Ala. 1901, states that 'the State of Alabama shall never be made a defendant in any court of law or equity. This constitutional provision `has been described as a "nearly impregnable" and "almost invincible" "wall" that provides the State an unwaivable, absolute immunity from suit in any court.' Ex parte Town of Lowndesboro, 950 So.2d 1203, 1206 (Ala.2006) (quoting Alabama Agric. & Mech. Univ. v. Jones, 895 So.2d 867, 872 (Ala.2004); Patterson v. Gladwin Corp., 835 So.2d 137, 142 (Ala.2002); and Alabama State Docks v. Saxon, 631 So.2d 943, 946 (Ala. 1994))."

    Ex parte Burnell, 90 So. 3d 708 - Ala: Supreme Court 2012




    Question: Why is state agent immunity “nearly impregnable” and “almost invincible” etc. etc.? …

    Answer: Because “to guard against any encroachments to the rights herein retained” state immunity was included in our Declaration of Rights that is sealed against encroachment by Section 36 so that it is “excepted out of the general powers of government and shall forever remain inviolate”.


    Consider the concise language of both Section 14 and Section 26:
    14: That the State of Alabama shall never be made a defendant in any court of law or equity.
    26: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.





    "We note that "[s]ection 36 erects a firewall between the Declaration of Rights that precedes it and the general powers of government, including the authority to exercise judicial power, that follow it." Ex parte Cranman, 792 So.2d 392, 401 (Ala. 2000). Sections 1 through 35 of Article I set out basic and fundamental rights guaranteed to all Alabamians, and § 36 provides that no branch of government has the authority to impair or deny those rights."

    1568 Montgomery Hwy. v. City of Hoover, 45 So. 3d 319 - Ala: Supreme Court 2010

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