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Thread: what we can and should learn from Bundy ranch showdown

  1. #1
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    what we can and should learn from Bundy ranch showdown

    The feds said in public statements that they pulled back because they didn't want bloodshed. They are telling only half the truth.

    # 1 - The majority of law enforcement do their job for a paycheck.

    # 2 - The vast majority of law enforcement agents only goal is to go home at the end of the night.

    To that end, they don't want to die. The bloodshed they wanted to prevent wasn't on the part of the protestors, it was among their own agents.

    When they are confronted with a situation involving armed opposition like Bundy ranch they show their true colors.

    If violence had broken out at the ranch, the feds would have won the battle. They would have killed many protestors and they would have removed the cattle from the ranch.

    However, the feds would have taken heavy casualties themselves.

    In fact, judging by the pictures, video and eyewitness testimony from the scene, it appears there was very good firepower present amongst the protestors.

    I would say the feds would have taken 15-35% casualties if everyone truly wanted to get down and rumble.

    What does this mean ?

    It means in America today we all too often just bow down and let LEO run over us BUT we have strength in numbers and we have a very well armed public. We need to use this to our advantage and force the government to choose their battles wisely.

    We need the police agents to sit in their bed at night and ask "what am I willing to die for".

    My opinion is 95% of LEO in this country do not want to die over some cattle and tortoises.

    I predict this event is a sign of things to come in America. I predict you will see more events like this were citizens, armed with their constitutionally protected .338 Lapuas and M-4's will show up and say "okay LEO, you will defeat us today, but you will take casualties and many of you wont go home tonight".

    Its been a while since I truly felt proud to be an America but watching the events unfold at the Ruby ranch convinced me that courage isn't dead in America and the government abuse can be defeated when we as the majority stick together and stand up.

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    Regular Member Gallowmere's Avatar
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    What bothers me, is that it's much easier for them to redeploy, once the militia members, and other protestors have gone home, than it is for the latter to mobilize again. The feds collect a paycheck for doing what they do. The protestors on the other hand, not so much. Realistically, they wouldn't have to fire a single shot. They could just keep leaving and coming back, until eventually, no one shows up to defend.
    "Now, why believe in anything they praise,
    When one hand holds them the victor,
    While the other holds the shovel to their graves?"
    ~~~Claudio Sanchez

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    What bothers me, is that it's much easier for them to redeploy, once the militia members, and other protestors have gone home, than it is for the latter to mobilize again. The feds collect a paycheck for doing what they do. The protestors on the other hand, not so much. Realistically, they wouldn't have to fire a single shot. They could just keep leaving and coming back, until eventually, no one shows up to defend.
    Resistance is growing. The protestors will be back and so will the feds. However, the numbers of protestors will be growing everyday.

    This is a new era in America.

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    Regular Member Gallowmere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    Resistance is growing. The protestors will be back and so will the feds. However, the numbers of protestors will be growing everyday.

    This is a new era in America.
    I genuinely hope that you are right.
    "Now, why believe in anything they praise,
    When one hand holds them the victor,
    While the other holds the shovel to their graves?"
    ~~~Claudio Sanchez

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    I think that in many cases the feds would be completely overrun and possibly publicly executed for treason. You can empty the magazine, but with the protestors numbering in the hundreds, how can you possibly reload in time to mow down the entire crowd? The thing about patriotism is that it almost certainly requires one to become a casualty. The patriot is not a soldier. The soldier lives to fight another day, the patriot dies to buy the soldier more time. That's difficult to negotiate with.

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    A Giant Has Awoken: Resistance in the Blue Zone

    The article referenced below from JPFO is worth reading

    http://jpfo.org/articles-assd04/blue...resistance.htm

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    I would bet some of the protectors are former military and LE. There is a very good chance fighting positions are being dug, ranges set, fields of fire coordinated.

    There is a huge different in taking on armed criminals who are alone and you have the full moral authority and law behind you.

    They can't hide what is happening they don't own all the media any more to carry their water like happened at Waco and ruby ridge.

    They well try but the cat's out of the bag so to speak video and audio well get out in the new media.
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    CSPOA Sheriff: Feds strategize for 'raid' on ranch. Warning follows threat from Reid.

    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Imagine how little support their would have been if only government "licensed" press were covering the situation.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRuger View Post
    The article referenced below from JPFO is worth reading

    http://jpfo.org/articles-assd04/blue...resistance.htm
    Good article. Thanks for the link.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Free Speech Zones????

    I, for one, am getting very, very tired of this tactic. My "free speech zone" is anywhere I happen to be.

    I read/study my Constitution every day. I have been looking for SOME justification for "FSZs" and I cannot find it anywhere. We complain about infringement quite a bit but we allow "FSZs". This needs to stop.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I, for one, am getting very, very tired of this tactic. My "free speech zone" is anywhere I happen to be.

    I read/study my Constitution every day. I have been looking for SOME justification for "FSZs" and I cannot find it anywhere. We complain about infringement quite a bit but we allow "FSZs". This needs to stop.
    Putting in a "free speech zone" would be enough for me .... irrespective of the underlining issue.

    And no, I don't care what any black-robed person thinks about this.

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    The question should be this.. Would those armed trained government employees kill innocent woman and children over some silly court order to confiscate some land and cattle? Would they kill innocent American's for simply not paying taxes and fees?

    Regards

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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    I wonder what these folks would do if Pres. Obama flexed his constitutional power to call up the militia to put down this insurrection?

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    " The mission of law is not to oppress persons and plunder them of their property, even thought the law may be acting in a philanthropic spirit.
    ITS MISSION IS TO PROTECT PROPERTY' -- Frederic Bastiat

    Another question should be What is the justification for denying a person of his rights and liberties?

    Regards

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    The question should be this.. Would those armed trained government employees kill innocent woman and children over some silly court order to confiscate some land and cattle? Would they kill innocent American's for simply not paying taxes and fees? Regards CCJ
    See the Twenty-Nine Palms Questionnaire controversy.

    Here's purportedly the survey http://29palmssurvey.com/survey.html

    https://encrypted.google.com/search?...%20controversy
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  17. #17
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Countryclubjoe, et al.,

    John Sayer quote: "The equipment maintained by the military while in use during the siege included fifteen armored personnel carriers, clothing, rifles, grenade launchers, flares, and 133,000 rounds of ammunition, for a total cost, including the use of maintenance personnel from the National Guard of five states and pilot and planes for aerial photographs, of over half a million dollars". unquote.

    Kevin McKiernan quote: The statistics on the U.S. government force at Wounded Knee vary, but all accounts agree that it was a significant military force including "federal marshals, FBI agents, and armored vehicles". One eyewitness and journalist described "sniper fire from…federal helicopters", "bullets dancing around in the dirt", and "sounds of shooting all over town" [from both sides]. unquote.

    quote: ...Kent Frizell was appointed from DOJ to manage the government's response. He cut off electricity, water and food supplies to Wounded Knee, when it was still winter in South Dakota, and prohibited the entry of the media unquote

    The Danziger Bridge shootings were police shootings that took place on September 4, 2005, at the Danziger Bridge in New Orleans, Louisiana. Six days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, members of the city's police department killed two people: 17-year-old James Brissette and 40-year-old Ronald Madison. Four other people were wounded. All victims were unarmed. Madison, a mentally disabled man, was shot in the back. New Orleans police fabricated a cover-up story for their crime, falsely reporting that seven police officers responded to a police dispatch reporting an officer down, and that at least four people were firing weapons at the officers upon their arrival.

    police shooting the citizens they are suppose to protect, happens every day!

    Why are you surprised?

    ipse
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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    I wonder what these folks would do if Pres. Obama flexed his constitutional power to call up the militia to put down this insurrection?


    Take our time killing his supporters. The sights are on the top of the gun, not the side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    I wonder what these folks would do if Pres. Obama flexed his constitutional power to call up the militia to put down this insurrection?
    You are confused.

    Art. II, 2:1a " ... when called into the actual Service of the United States;"

    Art. I, 8:15a "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, ... "
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Last edited by scott58dh; 06-27-2014 at 01:37 AM.

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    That our government is way out of control and there is a major problem with our government owning our land and in Nevada's case be 85%, our government has no problem sending SWAT teams into a area to use Lethal force to keep our land from us. The Federal Government should not have any rights to any land in any state period.
    Last edited by zack991; 04-16-2014 at 02:14 AM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    You are confused.

    Art. II, 2:1a " ... when called into the actual Service of the United States;"

    Art. I, 8:15a "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, ... "
    He is also confused in the fact that the "militia" has no obligation to heed his call.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Insult to injury: Retreating feds trashed Cliven Bundy’s ranch

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-retreating-f/

    An Obama-cultural norm, salting the earth.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-retreating-f/

    An Obama-cultural norm, salting the earth.
    Vindictive biotches.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’ at LVRJ Hashtags & Headlines today

    "By LAURA MYERS LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL

    U.S. Sen. Harry Reid on Thursday called supporters of Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy “domestic terrorists” because they defended him against a Bureau of Land Management cattle roundup with guns and put their children in harm’s way.

    “They’re nothing more than domestic terrorists,” Reid said during an appearance at a Las Vegas Review-Journal “Hashtags & Headlines” event at the Paris. “I repeat: what happened there was domestic terrorism.”
    [ ... ]
    “There were hundreds, hundreds of people from around the country that came there,” Reid said. “They had sniper rifles in the freeway. They had weapons, automatic weapons. They had children lined up. They wanted to make sure they got hurt first … What if others tried the same thing?”

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/politic...tic-terrorists

    Google Real time
    https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl...6LXx6leSsh78UM (I recognize that URL, it may be a too generic Bunkerville Range War link, sorry)

    Hmm, where before have we heard this complaint, here, on OCDO? The polarization and dispersion continues, statists from patriots.

    As loudly as this dog Reid is barking, there must be something to the Chinese energy firm suspicion.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 04-17-2014 at 06:06 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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