New member: School zone question

Hello all! Ive recently been looking into open carry and have been lurking here on the forums for a few days. Lots of valuable info here! Thanks to all...

That said, I live near a high volume of schools, making it near impossible to open carry from my home to just about any places that I frequent. My question is this: while transporting a firearm in my vehicle, without a chp, through a school zone, said firearm must be unloaded and in a LOCKED container, no exceptions. Is this the concensus? Just looking for some feedback as I have found no evidence to the contrary. Thanks in advance!

Front Royalty said:

Hello all! Ive recently been looking into open carry and have been lurking here on the forums for a few days. Lots of valuable info here! Thanks to all...

That said, I live near a high volume of schools, making it near impossible to open carry from my home to just about any places that I frequent. My question is this: while transporting a firearm in my vehicle, without a chp, through a school zone, said firearm must be unloaded and in a LOCKED container, no exceptions. Is this the concensus? Just looking for some feedback as I have found no evidence to the contrary. Thanks in advance!

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Good luck!
Without a CHP it;s illegal under Federal law to drive past a school with a gun in any manner.
Under State law it's fine loaded or not. State law addresses ON School property.

Back to the real world, most consider the GFZ unenforceable and since tens of thousands do it every day,that's a pretty good indicator.

peter nap said:

Good luck!
Without a CHP it;s illegal under Federal law to drive past a school with a gun in any manner.
Under State law it's fine loaded or not. State law addresses ON School property.

Back to the real world, most consider the GFZ unenforceable and since tens of thousands do it every day,that's a pretty good indicator.

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Unreal. That makes it pretty much impossible for anyone without a chp to transport a firearm (under federal law) except in the most rural of areas. Wow.

Front Royalty said:

Unreal. That makes it pretty much impossible for anyone without a chp to transport a firearm (under federal law) except in the most rural of areas. Wow.

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What you say is true. And in fact, even in Virginia, a CHP does not provide the "exception" required in the federal law, because the exception requires a license to possess, which Virginia does not issue. Many disagree with what the plain text of the law says, instead preferring to assume that a CHP will work, but read it yourself and see. Then read the CHP law and see that it does not authorize possession, merely exemption from the prohibition to conceal.

Additionally, it is worthy to note that the federal law provides no exception for off-duty police officers, so any police officer that does not have a license to possess, is also in violation of the law every time they are driving within 1,000 feet of any school property while on their way to or from work.

Bottom line, what Peter Nap said: It's a horrible law, virtually impossible to not violate in one or several ways. Don't do anything stupid, and you will very likely be just fine.

TFred

Front Royalty said:

Unreal. That makes it pretty much impossible for anyone without a chp to transport a firearm (under federal law) except in the most rural of areas. Wow.

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Well, you can file a case at your local district court if you want. You need not be arrested to attack a federal law in federal court..you can file a case prior to a charge.

Welcome to OCDO. Look at jpining VCDL www.vcdl.org soon. Come out to the gun shows and say "Howdy".

About your question -

It's very difficult to provide you with a response that is meaningful, accurate, useful, and in compliance with OCDO rules. However, if you select just one of the first 3 categories the ability to answer your question becomes a lot easier.

Having said that, perhaps the best response is to suggest that you look at the number of LACs (Law Abiding Citizens) in Virginia that have been arrested, let alone charged and/or convicted, of violating the GFSZ act. It's a federal law and there are few times that local or State police will even bother to attempt to enforce federal law - which technically means holding you until a federal Marshal can arrive to do the actual "You are under arrest for violation of [XYZ federal law]." There was a time when some localities (infamously, City of Richmond) when folks picked up on local/state law violations were referred to the federal District Attorney for prosecution under harsher federal laws - look up "Project Exile" if you are not already familiar.

The thing is, most cops that are going to stop you for driving in a school zone are not going to have the support of their Commonwealth Attorney for a referral to the feds for a GFSZ violation, let alone most of the feds wanting to have such referred to them.

According to OCDO rules I can't suggest that you ignore the GFSZ law, or that you blatanly violate it. But I think I'm allowed to suggest that you consider the risk involved should you decide to flout the law. And I know I'm on solid ground encouraging you not to do anything that would give LEOs a reason to want to arrest you anywhere, for any reason.

Paraphrasing some wise person who, if they did not actually say it should have said it: "There's no way you can get through the day without committing at least three felonies. Pick carefully the ones you are most likely to get caught for."

stay safe.

Welcome to OCDO.

You have received the best advice available from those knowledgeable about how Virginia law enforcement treats this federal law. Take due notice thereof and govern yourself accordingly.

Conversely, I strongly suggest that, as a fellow citizen of the Virginia Commonwealth, that you can safely ignore the suggestions coming from those outside our boundaries.

peter nap said:

Back to the real world, most consider the GFZ unenforceable and since tens of thousands do it every day,that's a pretty good indicator.

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They are unenforceable legally.

TFred said:

Many disagree with what the plain text of the law says, instead preferring to assume that a CHP will work, but read it yourself and see. Then read the CHP law and see that it does not authorize possession, merely exemption from the prohibition to conceal.

Additionally, it is worthy to note that the federal law provides no exception for off-duty police officers, so any police officer that does not have a license to possess, is also in violation of the law every time they are driving within 1,000 feet of any school property while on their way to or from work.

Bottom line, what Peter Nap said: It's a horrible law, virtually impossible to not violate in one or several ways. Don't do anything stupid, and you will very likely be just fine.

TFred

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".....the right to bear arms shall not be infringed." Any banning of firearms is illegal, null, void, does not and should not be obeyed. Private property owners may restrict and/or ban firearms but this at least in theory should cost them their business as no militia member should patronise such establishments.

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen!

peter nap said:

Good luck!
Without a CHP it;s illegal under Federal law to drive past a school with a gun in any manner.
Under State law it's fine loaded or not. State law addresses ON School property.

Back to the real world, most consider the GFZ unenforceable and since tens of thousands do it every day,that's a pretty good indicator.

Click to expand...

Just want to make sure im inderstanding you correctly. Under state law, without a chp, driving through a school zone with a firearm that is in a locked container is legal, loaded or otherwise?

Front Royalty said:

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen!



Just want to make sure im inderstanding you correctly. Under state law, without a chp, driving through a school zone with a firearm that is in a locked container is legal, loaded or otherwise?

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OPEN CARRY WITHOUT A CHP
As long as you are NOT on school property, it can be loaded, unloaded, you can be wearing it, have it on the seat, in a secured container (Has a lid) or locked. Your choice.

peter nap said:

OPEN CARRY WITHOUT A CHP
As long as you are NOT on school property, it can be loaded, unloaded, you can be wearing it, have it on the seat, in a secured container (Has a lid) or locked. Your choice.

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Well now I FEEL better

rightwinglibertarian said:

They are unenforceable legally.

".....the right to bear arms shall not be infringed." Any banning of firearms is illegal, null, void, does not and should not be obeyed. Private property owners may restrict and/or ban firearms but this at least in theory should cost them their business as no militia member should patronise such establishments.

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Please provide citations for your assertion that "They are unenforcable legally".

Seems to me that SCOTUS, as well as our own Virginia Supreme Court, have ruled many times that "reasonable restrictions" can be placed on the keeping and bearing of arms that does not amount to Constitutional infringement of the right stated in the Second Amendment.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

stay safe.

I'm late checking my daily blog reads so missed this earlier today -

http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/asset...Reed/Crime/82/647420-guns-accomplishments.pdf

h/t to David Hardy at http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2014/04/origin_of_zero_.php

Now you know where GFSZ and zero-tolerance came from. Aint education grand?

stay safe.

skidmark said:

Please provide citations for your assertion that "They are unenforcable legally".

Seems to me that SCOTUS, as well as our own Virginia Supreme Court, have ruled many times that "reasonable restrictions" can be placed on the keeping and bearing of arms that does not amount to Constitutional infringement of the right stated in the Second Amendment.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

stay safe.

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Missing the fact that the justice system is corrupt and judges make rulings they have no right to. SCOTUS and the Virginia Supreme Court are subservient to the Constitution of the United States. Any judge making these illegal rulings should be removed and prosecuted.

While slightly OT it goes back to the principle of personal responsibility. Rights are abused, oh we need to ban this or that. Thats a liberal mindset and the basis for the banning of firearms. The whole idea simply serves to affirm the sheeple mentality. Personal responsibility has to a large degree become a foreign concept do to government meddling and it's well known the government can't be trusted to 'protect' it's citizens.

rightwinglibertarian said:

Missing the fact that the justice system is corrupt and judges make rulings they have no right to. SCOTUS and the Virginia Supreme Court are subservient to the Constitution of the United States. Any judge making these illegal rulings should be removed and prosecuted.

While slightly OT it goes back to the principle of personal responsibility. Rights are abused, oh we need to ban this or that. Thats a liberal mindset and the basis for the banning of firearms. The whole idea simply serves to affirm the sheeple mentality. Personal responsibility has to a large degree become a foreign concept do to government meddling and it's well known the government can't be trusted to 'protect' it's citizens.

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Please take care that your rose-colored glasses to not break and cut you when you trip over your sophomoric, Pollyannaish world view.

Case law exists, and case law controls - until the legislature enacts something to rearrange the fact set. Feel free to hold your views, and to act on them. Let me know what day(s) youi will be allowed visitors.

stay safe.

skidmark said:

Please take care that your rose-colored glasses to not break and cut you when you trip over your sophomoric, Pollyannaish world view.

Case law exists, and case law controls - until the legislature enacts something to rearrange the fact set. Feel free to hold your views, and to act on them. Let me know what day(s) youi will be allowed visitors.

stay safe.

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Translation Rightwing....Welcome to the REAL WORLD!

peter nap said:

OPEN CARRY WITHOUT A CHP
As long as you are NOT on school property, it can be loaded, unloaded, you can be wearing it, have it on the seat, in a secured container (Has a lid) or locked. Your choice.

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What happened to the 1,000' zone specified in the federal law?

JohnM15A said:

What happened to the 1,000' zone specified in the federal law?

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Did you read the thread? I guess it's hard to keep track... we are talking about two different things, state law and federal law. The federal GFSZA is still there, as ugly as ever. If you intend to follow that law to the letter, you cannot carry a firearm in Virginia unless you are in a very rural county, in which your travels take you no where near a school. The primary concern is state law, which does not [strike]cover[/strike] regulate the carry of firearms OFF school property.

TFred

ETA: clarification above.

JamesCanby said:

Welcome to OCDO.

You have received the best advice available from those knowledgeable about how Virginia law enforcement treats this federal law. Take due notice thereof and govern yourself accordingly.

Conversely, I strongly suggest that, as a fellow citizen of the Virginia Commonwealth, that you can safely ignore the suggestions coming from those outside our boundaries.

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Yeah! In in the USA .. so my federal suggestion was good, right?

Take only advice from people who have gone through civil or criminal trials - like me !

davidmcbeth said:

Yeah! In in the USA .. so my federal suggestion was good, right?

Take only advice from people who have gone through civil or criminal trials - like me !

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That puts the Bar in your state in a very poor light! :uhoh: