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Thread: Man Arrested by Federal Police Officer for Refilling Soda

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Man Arrested by Federal Police Officer for Refilling Soda

    http://www.live5news.com/story/25269...or-soda-refill

    Quote Originally Posted by foxnews
    North Charleston man was hit with a federal fine for refilling his drink without paying. The on-site construction worker says he didn't know refills at the VA Medical Center in downtown Charleston came at a price, and Wednesday, during his lunch hour, he was slapped with federal charges.
    The VA hospital was unapologetic and conversely applauded the federal detainment and citation.
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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    Another successful citizen intimidation/compliance exercise.

    A hospital spokesperson says it was her understanding that Lewis was aggressive during the confrontation.
    Thank goodness I cannot meet the means test for VA registration.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Nobody likes a freeloader! That said fountain refills are the norm today, not the exception. So unless their was signage clearly stating NO FREE REFILLS! The man could possibly fight the charges. I'm glad the Feds are so busy catching terrorists and other violent criminals...I mean for God's sake - this guy may have been trying to ingest so much soda that he became a human "seltzer bomb"!!! sarcasm off now.
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    He's a dumbass for yap yap yaping ... he admitted his guilt.

    I do this ALL the time. I'm cheap ! If I have to serve it myself, then I do.

    What if you filled it first 1/2 way , sat down and drank it. Then returned to fill it 1/2 way again.

    Now, did you steal ? Nope. You just took the product in 1/2 portions twice. You pay for the qty of liquid, not the # of trips to the machine.

    A good cross-examination of the gov't witness would end up in many "I don't know" responses creating huge
    reasonable doubt.

    I've had this happen to me (getting caught refilling) ... never got convicted or even arrested ..because when they ask "hey, did you just refill w/o paying?" I just look at them like they are from Mars. Its a crime almost impossible to prove..unless you provide the evidence. Like this goof did.

    I would say 50% of people do this....and those that don't are not thirsty ...


    If I have to fill it ... its free refills no matter what any sign says IMO.

    Of course, I would find the guy not guilty ...

    The law should not concern itself with trivial matters.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 04-17-2014 at 02:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    http://www.live5news.com/story/25269...or-soda-refill



    The VA hospital was unapologetic and conversely applauded the federal detainment and citation.
    The VA .. where veterans go to die ....

    Here's a tip: when you are injured in the performance of your duties for an employer (ANY employer) - do not seek out medical treatment from a health care provider that has any ties to the employer. You are going to get royally screwed.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 04-17-2014 at 02:04 PM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Even if found guilty for this complete waste of our resources there is no way his "fine" will cover the costs of his prosecution.

    And the government is the victim?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    UPDATE! Chuckton P&C, Lewis gets warning, USFPS repudiated

    http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...with-a-warning

    Researching this event, I was surprised to note that both Russia and the US have "Federal Protective Services".
    Last edited by Nightmare; 04-18-2014 at 06:13 AM.
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    Thumbs up

    From: postandcourier.com - man-who-got-500-ticket-for-drink-refill-at-charleston-va-hospital-will-get-off-with-a-warning
    "In reviewing the case, the Ralph H. Johnson VA Medical Center has determined a warning in lieu of a citation is sufficient in this case," hospital spokeswoman Tonya Lobbestael said. "The individual is not banned from the Ralph H. Johnson VA Medical Center."
    ...as he should. They initially BANNED him from the property meaning he could no longer work there! That was reascended as well.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The VA.....not know for harboring towers of intellect.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    The stupidity of this incident is mind-blowing. I imagine the only reason they dropped it to a warning is because of the media spread and accompanying outrage.

    It's a .98c refill. If he 'stole' 100 refills, it's only $89. Take him to small claims court or something. Or hell, why not just try telling him, "hey, refills aren't free. Pay for your refill or leave"
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    The stupidity of this incident is mind-blowing. I imagine the only reason they dropped it to a warning is because of the media spread and accompanying outrage.

    It's a .98c refill. If he 'stole' 100 refills, it's only $89. Take him to small claims court or something. Or hell, why not just try telling him, "hey, refills aren't free. Pay for your refill or leave"
    You do realize that we are talking about bureaucrats.....right?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    You do realize that we are talking about bureaucrats.....right?
    LOL silly me. How could I forget
    Advocate freedom please

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    Out in the real world (private sector restaurants) I have seen signage at the self service soft drink station which read along the lines of "Free refills during your present visit here only". It's not hard to imagine why such a rule was put in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Even if found guilty for this complete waste of our resources there is no way his "fine" will cover the costs of his prosecution.

    And the government is the victim?
    My guess is that the cafe is a private business. Just a guess, and no, I am not going to investigate ~ its a trivial matter.

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    First--- per reading the posted link it seems the guy was not just getting a "refill" but bringing an "outside" container in and getting the soda without paying. IF this is what he was actually doing it is absolutely theft in my mind.

    Since on this forum we advocate for LAWFUL ACTIONS ONLY I can't feel any sympathy for him. IF the VA police can prove that he did STEAL the product then he should suffer the penalty for his crime/infraction.

    I don't appreciate FREELOADERS and USERS for they are actually STEALING the goods/time/money from those who actually produce.

    Where is JOHN GALT?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    First--- per reading the posted link it seems the guy was not just getting a "refill" but bringing an "outside" container in and getting the soda without paying. IF this is what he was actually doing it is absolutely theft in my mind.

    Since on this forum we advocate for LAWFUL ACTIONS ONLY I can't feel any sympathy for him. IF the VA police can prove that he did STEAL the product then he should suffer the penalty for his crime/infraction.

    I don't appreciate FREELOADERS and USERS for they are actually STEALING the goods/time/money from those who actually produce.

    Where is JOHN GALT?
    He admitted his guilt ... so proof is pretty easy. I had no sympathy for his plight since he admitted his guilt.

    He's the #1 wanted man in America? No. Nobody really cares about what he did. Well, except for you (for some unknown reason).

    A trivial matter that courts should not even be bothered with.

    I think that JoeSparky's post is punishment enough.

    CASE CLOSED !
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 04-18-2014 at 05:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    He admitted his guilt ... so proof is pretty easy. I had no sympathy for his plight since he admitted his guilt.

    He's the #1 wanted man in America? No. Nobody really cares about what he did. Well, except for you (for some unknown reason).

    A trivial matter that courts should not even be bothered with.

    I think that JoeSparky's post is punishment enough.

    CASE CLOSED !
    Are you responding as if I was attacking you or your post? My first post on this thread is after yours SEQUENTIALLY because of posting times NOT BECAUSE I WAS ATTACKING YOU.

    Principles are principles.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Are you responding as if I was attacking you or your post? My first post on this thread is after yours SEQUENTIALLY because of posting times NOT BECAUSE I WAS ATTACKING YOU.

    Principles are principles.
    Was not attacking you .... just that your post is punishment enough for his transgression.

    I refilled a drink today ... federal agents did not swoop down and arrest me...

    Its just a joke that resources were expended for such a trivial thing...just tell the guy he can not eat there anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Was not attacking you .... just that your post is punishment enough for his transgression.

    I refilled a drink today ... federal agents did not swoop down and arrest me...

    Its just a joke that resources were expended for such a trivial thing...just tell the guy he can not eat there anymore.
    Are you confessing to "retail theft"? or just doing what many but not all businesses allow--- that of free refills on sodas?

    While I agree that the initial penalty associated with his crime seemed to be extraordinarily high based upon the actual value to the product acquired without payment for same, It is RIDICULOUS that the original charge was "theft of government property" as it was clearly "RETAIL THEFT" only.

    I believe one should/must be honorable and have integrity. Yes, I do return excess change received at the register to the clerk/store. Am I 100% honest? NOPE, but it is a goal. Theft is theft it doesn't matter if it is 5 cents worth of sodapop syrup or 5Trillion Dollars--- the Principle is the same. It should not matter the value or cost--- one is either honest or not.

    You did see that my comments were prefaced by "IF"? I did not condemn him or convict him. I simply stated that upon conviction he should pay the piper! I am aware the "government" has elected to only "warn" him in addition to prohibiting his return onto the property which results in his losing his job.

    I think the real discussion should be the vast expansion of Federal Government into what should and properly would be a function of the individual States. States have police powers NOT the Federal Government.
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 04-18-2014 at 08:27 PM.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    I don't think the federal court has jurisdiction to enforce a state's criminal code.

    If I went to federal court I would challenge Personal jurisdiction and subject matter jurisdiction.

    However, some misdemeanors occurring on certain federal property can be tried in federal courts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I don't think the federal court has jurisdiction to enforce a state's criminal code.

    If I went to federal court I would challenge Personal jurisdiction and subject matter jurisdiction.

    However, some misdemeanors occurring on certain federal property can be tried in federal courts.
    ORIGINAL charge was "THEFT OF GOVERNMENT PROPERTY" as a FEDERAL crime based upon it occurring on the Federally owned VA facility. Retail theft of sodapop certainly properly fits within the perview of the STATE level.

    Charging one with a federal level crime for this or other alleged crimes NOT SPECIFICALLY mentioned in the Fed Constitution as a FEDERAL crime should NEVER be charged in a federal level court but as a state/municipal court.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    ORIGINAL charge was "THEFT OF GOVERNMENT PROPERTY" as a FEDERAL crime based upon it occurring on the Federally owned VA facility.[ ... ]
    The image of the citation in my OP indicates 'shoplifting.' The local rag was my hometown paper for 30 years, I follow it closely, and do not recall any such "theft of government property."
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The image of the citation in my OP indicates 'shoplifting.' The local rag was my hometown paper for 30 years, I follow it closely, and do not recall any such "theft of government property."
    I see that. I could have sworn I saw/read somewhere about the original charge being "theft of government property" but I am unable to find a cite for it now.

    But, I reiterate---- Shoplifting is a STATE LEVEL crime NOT a Federal crime per the LIMITED number of specific listed federal crimes in the US CONSTITUTION and it should be prosecuted AT THE STATE LEVEL.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I see that. I could have sworn I saw/read somewhere about the original charge being "theft of government property" but I am unable to find a cite for it now.

    But, I reiterate---- Shoplifting is a STATE LEVEL crime NOT a Federal crime per the LIMITED number of specific listed federal crimes in the US CONSTITUTION and it should be prosecuted AT THE STATE LEVEL.
    Wouldn't interstate commerce clause ... blah blah (stomach ache --- puuuuke) .....

    god i hate the interstate clause .... how its been mangled .....

    But I don't think that shoplifting has been caught in that new yet ... I could be wrong ..

    here's a case:
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...en&as_sdt=8003

    where the underlining crime was shoplifting .... got them for ... interstate travel of stolen goods ahhh
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 04-19-2014 at 01:26 AM.

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