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What to say when people complain they are "uncomfortable" because of your gun?

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
This was your response to my original question, IMO you made it clear in that response that you would request the person be trespassed. Not to be argumentative, you did not clarify the circumstances, just that trespass was a option that would be used. And clearly that option would have repercussion well past the initial incident. Such as giving the business owner the impression that as a gun rights group that anything other than handgun OC is unacceptable. Sorta the same rational that resulted in the arrest of a soldier in Fayettenam for doing NOTHING illegal. It is those attitudes that are encouraged, whether it is realized or not. IOW you would be helping to shape the mental perception of others, just not yourself, even if it is not your intention.

Actions, as well words have meaning, and they are long lasting meaning.

As you will have it - apparently little else I can say that will show you where the disconnect is. No offense intended and none taken.

Haven't had my lunch yet - color me gone......and OCing :)
 

Liberty-or-Death

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
411
Location
23235
... But if denigration is to be allowed then certainly you can expect me to object to it. ... denigration has been a constant theme ... throughout the forum ...
Kudos to you sir. I've witnessed such nastiness here and wager it turns off more people than it turns on. Thank you for taking a stand.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Please sirs, make peace with others who embrace RKBA, especial OC - paraphrasing a known quote, "Together we are a force to be reckoned with."

Nonsense. Didn't you hear? I am, and I quote, "no different from antis".

Clearly I don't, in fact, embrace the RKBA, since I feel comfortable expressing my opinion that some individuals engage in behavior which is, while absolutely rightful, idiotic. It's well-established that such an opinion is "no different from antis".

For the record, I don't believe *all* long gun OC is necessarily idiotic, nor did I suggest that I do. But I will not bandy words about those who OC long guns into Kroger: they're idiots.

How else are we to curb our own excesses but with social censure? These are rights we're talking about; we can't just up and ban OCing long guns in Kroger. But how to make the idiots see their idiocy?
 
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Logan 5

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
696
Location
Utah
LGOC vs. HGOC. Interesting. WHO has the right to decide which is legal?

Funny thing is, the Second Amendment does not specify "arms". If you don't agree, then explain the laws that limit knives. I personally like some automatic knives. Nope- can't have them. Their illegal. But...but...WAIT! How is that? Well, The states(that made them illegal) felt they were a danger. kinda...like...your...handguns.

If you have an OC rally, is it specific to handguns only? Maybe I want my machete with me? Difference between a machete and a Beretta 92? Of course WE see there is a physical difference. But what abut philosophical? What about the Constitution? Or does the US Constitution apply only to HGOC'ers?

Careful how you answer that, because I might go to a OC rally OCing a Stihl chainsaw.... :eek:
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
LGOC vs. HGOC. Interesting. WHO has the right to decide which is legal?

Funny thing is, the Second Amendment does not specify "arms". If you don't agree, then explain the laws that limit knives. I personally like some automatic knives. Nope- can't have them. Their illegal. But...but...WAIT! How is that? Well, The states(that made them illegal) felt they were a danger. kinda...like...your...handguns.

If you have an OC rally, is it specific to handguns only? Maybe I want my machete with me? Difference between a machete and a Beretta 92? Of course WE see there is a physical difference. But what abut philosophical? What about the Constitution? Or does the US Constitution apply only to HGOC'ers?

Careful how you answer that, because I might go to a OC rally OCing a Stihl chainsaw.... :eek:


Just don't OC a toy chainsaw...:lol:
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Nonsense. Didn't you hear? I am, and I quote, "no different from antis".

Clearly I don't, in fact, embrace the RKBA, since I feel comfortable expressing my opinion that some individuals engage in behavior which is, while absolutely rightful, idiotic. It's well-established that such an opinion is "no different from antis".

For the record, I don't believe *all* long gun OC is necessarily idiotic, nor did I suggest that I do. But I will not bandy words about those who OC long guns into Kroger: they're idiots.

How else are we to curb our own excesses but with social censure? These are rights we're talking about; we can't just up and ban OCing long guns in Kroger. But how to make the idiots see their idiocy?

There is nothing that makes LGOCing into Kroger necessarily idiotic, that's such an arbitrary determination. Surely you can give us better criteria than arbitrary declaring certain zones only-idiots-oc-here-zones.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
There is nothing that makes LGOCing into Kroger necessarily idiotic, that's such an arbitrary determination. Surely you can give us better criteria than arbitrary declaring certain zones only-idiots-oc-here-zones.

Of course it's arbitrary. Everything about social interaction is arbitrary. It's not my job, however, to be your mother and explain social norms, etc.

This has been explained and discussed ad nauseam, as you very well know. OC of handguns is, socially speaking, in a "gray area" where people are not necessarily accustomed to it, but will see for themselves the potential advantages of OC of handguns in daily life. OC of long guns in places like grocery stores (as opposed to, say, in the woods) is, on the other hand, guaranteed to make everybody (including most gun owners) conclude you lack sound judgment. Hence, OC of long guns in places like Kroger is counterproductive and, therefore, idiotic.

I'm really not going to participate in this discussion any more. Frankly, it bores me; I'm right. If you dispute my arguments above, I impugn your social skills and your judgment. There's nothing more to it.
 
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stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Of course it's arbitrary. Everything about social interaction is arbitrary. [...]

Pfft, no it isn't. Not hardly.

If you can't see how similar this line of thinking is to the reasoning antis repeat and rely on so frequently, I impugn your critical thinking skills.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Pfft, no it isn't. Not hardly.

If you can't see how similar this line of thinking is to the reasoning antis repeat and rely on so frequently, I impugn your critical thinking skills.
Ignoring the obvious, "regular folks" - most of them, don't mind HGOC, if they even notice, but will make a phone call for LGOC because it is virtually guaranteed they will notice. But, ignoring the obvious is not against da law.

Critical thinking skills are not germane to marshaul's point...critical thinking and irrational emotional responses are. Mixing the two premises is a mistake.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Ignoring the obvious, "regular folks" - most of them, don't mind HGOC, if they even notice, but will make a phone call for LGOC because it is virtually guaranteed they will notice. But, ignoring the obvious is not against da law.

Critical thinking skills are not germane to marshaul's point...critical thinking and irrational emotional responses are. Mixing the two premises is a mistake.

Erm... "Critical thinking skills are not germane to marshaul's point..." maybe that's part of the problem?

...........

Unsure if I should even continue..........

Seems that the basic formula marshaul is using is that the LGOCer is an "idiot" when they decline to pander to an idiot's (idiot because no critical thinking) views or feelings, even if those views or feelings are something like preference or pure hatred. He's literally taking the critically thinking and the idiot, and trying to reverse their titles using arbitrary "social norms" as the justification.

Screw that, dude.

eta, basically saying that I'm not allowed to base decisions on critical thinking because others in society don't. No, I don't accept that.
 
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Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
1
Location
Cincinnati
A Hypothetical Question

After watching about two hours of police harassing legally open carrying citizens on Youtube, i began to wonder about a hypothetical situation. Lets say instead of a gun, the person walking around was smoking a cigarette. Should the police stop them considering over 443,000 people die prematurely from smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke each year, while the number that die from gun violence is far smaller than that? Lets also look at the fact that one has to be at least 18 years of age to use tobacco, should the police stop them to check their identification? If they attempt to detain legally carrying citizens (which is one of our constitutional rights) why are they not stopping something that is not considered to be one of our rights? How big of an uproar would it cause if they did stop everyone smoking to check their identification?
 

mnrobitaille

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
374
Location
Kahlotus, WA
So far, I've only had one person talk to me after seeing me OCing. My response was "Better to have it, & not need it, than need it & not have it."

All the other encounters have just people staring/giving funny looks.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Erm... "Critical thinking skills are not germane to marshaul's point..." maybe that's part of the problem?

...........

Unsure if I should even continue..........

Seems that the basic formula marshaul is using is that the LGOCer is an "idiot" when they decline to pander to an idiot's (idiot because no critical thinking) views or feelings, even if those views or feelings are something like preference or pure hatred. He's literally taking the critically thinking and the idiot, and trying to reverse their titles using arbitrary "social norms" as the justification.

Screw that, dude.

eta, basically saying that I'm not allowed to base decisions on critical thinking because others in society don't. No, I don't accept that.
I agree, uninformed emotional responses by our fellow citizens is a problem, yet that is the reality on the ground.

LGOC in front of the state house is seen for what it is, a political statement, because that is how the LGOCers, in front of the state house want it to be seen as. Getting a dozen or so of your LGOC buddies to go with you to eat lunch will be seen as a political statement as well.

Go and LGOC while shopping, getting gas, mowing your yard, eating lunch. Do it regularly and folks will, most of them, eventually, get used to you, and maybe other independent LGOCers. But, this remains the exact formula that HGOC has used and it is proven to work.

Eventually, folks and cops will be treating the lawful behavior the same as the other lawful behavior. But, until folks and cops see LGOCers doing normal daily activities, like they see HGOCers, if they even notice HGOCers to begin with, LGOCers will be viewed as idiots, for better or worse. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

LGOCers pushing shopping carts will eventually be seen as, hopefully, just another citizen squeezing melons in the produce section, until then...

Denying reality is not using critical thinking skills, and our fellow citizens bear no burden to use their critical thinking skills.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
I don't deny the reality that idiots may occasionally cry about LGOC, just saying the ones accurately categorized as idiots are the ones refusing to apply critical thinking and basing their life on "arbitrary social norms", not the ones that do apply critical thinking. Indeed, I would ask is it not the purpose of this site and the whole concept of "normalization" to act contrary to existing social norms, thereby changing the social norms? Saying someone is an idiot solely because they act contrary to an "arbitrary social norm" is not valid. That's all I'm saying.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
I don't deny the reality that idiots may occasionally cry about LGOC, ....
No arguments from me.

Though, consider that "social norms" may be the incorrect phrase, but "government propaganda" that guns are bad. Cops should be the first to change this "norm" if they wanted to, but they rarely engage the citizenry to change this "social norm."

Yes, the vast majority of cops support our 2A, but get them to fuss at a MWAG caller, or hold that caller to account for their ignorance of the law(s) that result in the wasting of government services/resources.

When folks know that OCing a firearm is legal, they may not like it but they will not (should not) act on their disagreement. There is a thread here on OCDO where the MWAG caller learned that OC was legal, from the cops, and then did not want the cops to be dispatched, the cops were dispatched anyway.

The "social norm" is only what the government wants it to be.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
No arguments from me.

Though, consider that "social norms" may be the incorrect phrase, but "government propaganda" that guns are bad. Cops should be the first to change this "norm" if they wanted to, but they rarely engage the citizenry to change this "social norm."

Yes, the vast majority of cops support our 2A, but get them to fuss at a MWAG caller, or hold that caller to account for their ignorance of the law(s) that result in the wasting of government services/resources.

When folks know that OCing a firearm is legal, they may not like it but they will not (should not) act on their disagreement. There is a thread here on OCDO where the MWAG caller learned that OC was legal, from the cops, and then did not want the cops to be dispatched, the cops were dispatched anyway.

The "social norm" is only what the government wants it to be.

I've encountered a similar scenario to what you describe. A caller called the police when we were LGOCing, essentially saying how he thought we "ought not" do what we were doing. In this particular case the dispatcher was aware that we were having an "event" and informed the caller thusly. The caller somewhat changed his tune and said something to the effect that he wasn't trying to get anyone in trouble if what they were doing was legal. The police did come though. They barely said a word to anyone OCing, instead focusing nearly all of their energy and attention on informing others nearby about the legality of LGOC. They didn't scold the caller(s), but were all smiles, very friendly to everyone present, assuring that the activity was legal and legit. Overall I felt as though they, the police that responded, were very professional, possibly even exemplary.

But, I'm still an idiot for my role in that scenario, according to marshaul.
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
After watching about two hours of police harassing legally open carrying citizens on Youtube, i began to wonder about a hypothetical situation. Lets say instead of a gun, the person walking around was smoking a cigarette. Should the police stop them considering over 443,000 people die prematurely from smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke each year, while the number that die from gun violence is far smaller than that? Lets also look at the fact that one has to be at least 18 years of age to use tobacco, should the police stop them to check their identification? If they attempt to detain legally carrying citizens (which is one of our constitutional rights) why are they not stopping something that is not considered to be one of our rights? How big of an uproar would it cause if they did stop everyone smoking to check their identification?

But they could be getting ready to commit the great crime of LITTERING!:shocker::shocker:
 
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