Interesting HOA issue to watch

user said:

[snip...] Anyway, the associations I've seen that have had problems have always been due not to fascists but to one or two fruitcakes with excessive need for control. When you get someone who really needs to run other peoples' lives and no one else wants the job (because they're sane), you get whacky results. I think the answer in such situations is simply to abolish the HOA.

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user said:

This issue has come up several times in the past few years, and thus far, I've resisted the urge to do the research necessary to form an opinion. I finally broke down and actually thought about it and the following is my opinion; I'd be willing to argue it in court, but don't think of it as anything more than my opinion until some appellate court rules on the issue.

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Grapeshot said:

As in a municipal authority, I presume.

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TFred said:

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I think we all (at least I certainly did) overlooked the "authority," and how an HOA would fall under that provision.
--snipped--

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user said:

This issue has come up several times in the past few years, and thus far, I've resisted the urge to do the research necessary to form an opinion. I finally broke down and actually thought about it and the following is my opinion; I'd be willing to argue it in court, but don't think of it as anything more than my opinion until some appellate court rules on the issue.

I've come to the conclusion that, under the Property Owner's Association Act, an HOA lacks the power to control ownership or possession of firearms, period. The reason has to do with the definition of "locality" contained within the statute. There is a clear exception for state-controlled and incarceration facilities. By the principle, "expressio unius alterius exclusio est" (the expression of one thing is the exclusion of any other), that specific reference to those facilities means that they were intended to be excluded from the operation of the statute, but no other "authority" created by law was so excluded. Since a homeowners' association is created by authority of a state statute as a local self-regulating body, it falls within the definition of an "authority" as to which the statute applies, which is clearly distinguished from "local government" by the word, "or" in the statute. (There are "authorities" that are excluded as state-controlled facilities, having to do mainly with how they're funded; e.g., the Virginia Tourism Authority.)

Moreover, as to the specific question before the body presently, the 2013 statute quoted below governing the power of a homeowners' association to regulate home-based businesses would seem to be dispositive. (However, keep in mind that the "declaration" which is the original charter for the HOA, can be amended by a process more elaborate than rule-making, requiring the recordation of documents in the Circuit Court.)





User,

Would the same logic apply to the BB Gun preemption? Shooting BB guns in plain view of others (because the damn HOA won't let you put up a privacy fence) would really upset some of those controlling B@$+@rd$!!!

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peter nap said:

Leave it to Dan to find a gold coin in the change slot! :lol:

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SouthernBoy said:

Good that he did. Now about this...

"Kinda like taking free room and board at a Nazi Concentration camp because they like the neighborhood, then kicking up a fuss because the showers don't have water."

I have to admit I laughed my butt off when I read this. Now the sensitive types are going to have a cow after their little knees stop twitching but it was funny in a macabre way.

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As the winter morning fog lifted on December 13, 1862, the Federal Army of the Potomac, under the command of General Ambrose Burnside, began advancing from its positions around the city of Fredericksburg toward Mayre's Heights. By the end of the day Robert E. Lee had held his ground and won his most one-sided victory of the war. General Burnside and the Federal troops abandoned the once beautiful city. A chilling rainstorm drenched the night countryside as the Federal troops retreated across the Rappahannock. [...] By the 16th, Confederate troops reoccupied Fredericksburg.

Later as Jackson and his staff rode through the city their anger was aroused by the extent of the ruthless vandalism. A staff officer commented on how thoroughly the Federals had taken the town apart and asked, "What can we do?" "Do?" replied Jackson, "Why, shoot them!"

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TFred said:

I see the point, and sure... but I'll reiterate my view with a bit of a history lesson:

From the woks of John Paul Strain, a famous painter of Civil War scenes, we have this guidance on the better solution:



Still have a hard time blaming the victims for the atrocities of the Nazis.... I prefer Jackson's solution - punish those actually responsible!

TFred

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SouthernBoy said:

Good that he did. Now about this...

"Kinda like taking free room and board at a Nazi Concentration camp because they like the neighborhood, then kicking up a fuss because the showers don't have water."

I have to admit I laughed my butt off when I read this. Now the sensitive types are going to have a cow after their little knees stop twitching but it was funny in a macabre way.

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peter nap said:

--snipped--

There are still a lot of sour grapes about the CHP privacy changes. Instead of lobbying for a law that would make it illegal to publish lists, they carved a chunk out of the open government laws many of us worked hard to get.

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scouser said:

where I live we have a pond. At various times during the year the pond attracts geese. The geese like to wander the streets near the pond. Some years ago a suggestion was made that we should have a fence built around the pond to keep the geese from wandering onto the streets and depositing their droppings on the sidewalks.
The idea of a fence was shelved when I asked exactly how high the fence was going to be, because every goose I'd ever seen could FLY

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va_tazdad said:

30+ years ago, the 1st place we looked in Chesterfield was Brandermill. I commented that the home had no gutters. The agent said the HOA didn't allow it. I said it was time to go. He couldn't understand I had no intention to allow some group of Fascist idiots tell me what I can and can't do in or to my home.

He attempted to say it maintained property values. I agreed. They had NO VALUE to me and never would.

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Chesterfield County supervisors on Wednesday unanimously approved a conditional-use permit for a Brandermill home day care at the center of a heated debate over what is allowed in the planned community.

The homeowner, Joni Roberts, has run a state-licensed home day care business in Brandermill for 17 years.

But new rules for maintaining a state license require Roberts to show that her home is zoned properly for her business.

“I believe in all my heart” that the right thing is keeping the center open, Roberts told supervisors Wednesday night, adding later that, “This really is an issue about the welfare of children.”

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Roberts told supervisors she has a petition supporting her business with more than 200 signatures, including those of immediate neighbors.

But Brandermill’s board president, Joan O’Hanley, asked supervisors to deny the application.

“Brandermill’s recorded, deeded covenants” do not allow Roberts’ type of business, she said.

Chesterfield records show 360 businesses registered at 306 residential addresses in Brandermill, but it’s tough to tell which of those are purely computer-based and which involve customers visiting the homes.

Brandermill’s covenants say homes must be used exclusively for residential purposes, with a clause saying home offices that do not generate traffic will be allowed.

The community association in the past has promoted at least one home business, advertising its services in fliers stuffed in mailboxes and inviting the owner to speak at a seminar.

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“It’s unfortunate that the leaders of Brandermill would come forward and speak against me,” Roberts said.

Turning to O’Hanley, she said, “You represent me.”

The county’s supervisors disagreed with O’Hanley.

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zoom6zoom said:

I'd much rather live next to a home FFL than a home daycare center.
The firearms are generally quite quiet and well behaved, and customers are coming by generally only by appointment to pick things up, rather than hordes of parents descending two to four times a day clogging up the street.

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Repeater said:

I've know how tyrannical Brandermill despots can be. The most recent example this year features Joni Miller, who has a small daycare that she runs out of her home. I have no opinion either way on that; rather I'm posting here because the BofS came to her rescue.

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