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Thread: Henrico's at it again ...

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    Regular Member SAvage410's Avatar
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    Henrico's at it again ...


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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Her address was on the search warrant so the cops obviously needed to break in and restrain her for their own safety while they waterboarded interrogated her. And if the cops knew about her granddaughter is is proof that the granddaughter is/was/will be up to no good.

    Nothing to see here, citizens. Move along.

    *

    stay safe.

    * - not sure if that ought to be noted as sarcasm or not. You decide.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Must be some mistake. Couldn't be in Henrico, that's the West End. Sure to be safe in your bed there.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Must be some mistake. Couldn't be in Henrico, that's the West End. Sure to be safe in your bed there.
    Guess you forgot that Henrico wraps around Richmond to give us both a West End and an East End. And Crenshaw Avenue is known far and wide throughout the area as an oasis of law-abidingness.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    The article says

    STATE POLICE, not Henrico. Seems this time HCPD was not at fault this time.

    (Prob because they were not invited)

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    Have an extra front and rear doors in your basement for just these type of situations.

    Everybody blames the cops but a judge signed that warrant. Maybe he should get a new job.

    Who was the judge? I don't know who the judge is...

    Maybe a situation like Kathryn Johnston?

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/24/atlanta.police/

    Where cops just put whatever they want on warrant applications to get one issued...clearly something was wrong with the application.

    We need to eliminate full immunity for judges IMO ... they have little accountability until time for elections, sans federal judges who have no accountability whatsoever.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Have an extra front and rear doors in your basement for just these type of situations.

    Everybody blames the cops but a judge signed that warrant. Maybe he should get a new job.

    Who was the judge? I don't know who the judge is...

    Maybe a situation like Kathryn Johnston?

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/24/atlanta.police/

    Where cops just put whatever they want on warrant applications to get one issued...clearly something was wrong with the application.

    We need to eliminate full immunity for judges IMO ... they have little accountability until time for elections, sans federal judges who have no accountability whatsoever.
    Real honest to God Judges rarely sign search warrants here David. Magistrates, who are the lowest link on the chain, generally don't have law degrees and really aren't required to have a high school diploma, are who normally issues them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Real honest to God Judges rarely sign search warrants here David. Magistrates, who are the lowest link on the chain, generally don't have law degrees and really aren't required to have a high school diploma, are who normally issues them.
    Your mission then, if you choose to accept it, is to find out who signed for the search warrant.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Your mission then, if you choose to accept it, is to find out who signed for the search warrant.
    Who cares! There are only a couple of Magistrates in Henrico, all idiots and all immune.

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    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    From the description of the "execution" of the warrant- this was a "no-knock" style/type of warrant. Is anyone familiar with any special requirements (IN VIRGINIA) for this type of warrant? It seems extreme to break down the door of a 75 year old grandmother without some sort of justification. She could have suffered a heart attack from the shock.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    From the description of the "execution" of the warrant- this was a "no-knock" style/type of warrant. Is anyone familiar with any special requirements (IN VIRGINIA) for this type of warrant? It seems extreme to break down the door of a 75 year old grandmother without some sort of justification. She could have suffered a heart attack from the shock.
    "No-knock" entry is one of my pet-peeves. Now that CHP privacy is no longer an issue, it might even be my top peeve. I believe User posted on the subject a while back, but I didn't save a link. This should be a top priority to correct in the General Assembly, by specifically defining real guidelines that allow for use ONLY in the case of emergent threats to innocent life, and holding local law enforcement and magistrates personally accountable for proper use.

    Here's the bottom line:

    The legal use of no-knock entry by law-enforcement and Castle Doctrine cannot co-exist in any jurisdiction. It is that simple.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    "No-knock" entry is one of my pet-peeves. Now that CHP privacy is no longer an issue, it might even be my top peeve. I believe User posted on the subject a while back, but I didn't save a link. This should be a top priority to correct in the General Assembly, by specifically defining real guidelines that allow for use ONLY in the case of emergent threats to innocent life, and holding local law enforcement and magistrates personally accountable for proper use.

    Here's the bottom line:

    The legal use of no-knock entry by law-enforcement and Castle Doctrine cannot co-exist in any jurisdiction. It is that simple.

    TFred
    I look at it like I do for the death penalty. It looks good on paper but the gov't just cannot use proper discipline and cannot be trusted not to kill the innocent. I am not in favor of the death penalty. Nor no-knocks.

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    The last I read was that Virginia does not have Castle Doctrine. Some previous Assemblies had a couple folks try to push it through, but others didn't want to bother and said it is already implied in the state of VA. That's complete BS because we all no that "implied" doesn't hold water in a court of law.


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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbtenvol View Post
    The last I read was that Virginia does not have Castle Doctrine. Some previous Assemblies had a couple folks try to push it through, but others didn't want to bother and said it is already implied in the state of VA. That's complete BS because we all no that "implied" doesn't hold water in a court of law.


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    As I recall from User's post our Castle Doctrine comes from common law and provides more protection than any of the bills introduced. There is a post on it from him here somewhere.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbtenvol View Post
    The last I read was that Virginia does not have Castle Doctrine. Some previous Assemblies had a couple folks try to push it through, but others didn't want to bother and said it is already implied in the state of VA. That's complete BS because we all no that "implied" doesn't hold water in a court of law.
    Virginia enjoys extremely strong Castle Doctrine through common law/case law. The negative side is that circumstances may well require spending large sums of time and money via the courts to make full use of it - the pieces parts are spread out all over the legal landscape. There is no easy qualified immunity.

    There was a concerted effort to consolidate everything into one neat package recently in the General Assembly. Unfortunately, the bill(s) got extremely cumbersome and created more problems than they fixed. The effort was killed by the initial proponents. Dan Hawes expounded on this at great length - a sample of his thoughts appear on the following thread, beginning with posts #38 & # 40. Dan even mentions "no knock" warrants.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...VIRGINIA/page2

    I would very much like to see "curtilage" removed/replaced to include all property owned or controlled + add one's vehicle to Castle Doctrine. Note too that Stand Your Ground is closely allied with this issue.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Virginia enjoys extremely strong Castle Doctrine through common law/case law. The negative side is that circumstances may well require spending large sums of time and money via the courts to make full use of it - the pieces parts are spread out all over the legal landscape. There is no easy qualified immunity.

    There was a concerted effort to consolidate everything into one neat package recently in the General Assembly. Unfortunately, the bill(s) got extremely cumbersome and created more problems than they fixed. The effort was killed by the initial proponents. Dan Hawes expounded on this at great length - a sample of his thoughts appear on the following thread, beginning with posts #38 & # 40. Dan even mentions "no knock" warrants.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...VIRGINIA/page2

    I would very much like to see "curtilage" removed/replaced to include all property owned or controlled + add one's vehicle to Castle Doctrine. Note too that Stand Your Ground is closely allied with this issue.
    And in what contributes to the "parts are spread out all over the legal landscape," I have been assured by a very "gun-friendly" member of the House of Delegates that Virginia's being a strong Contributory Negligence state makes it very difficult (nothing is impossible in the legal system) to be found civilly liable in a clean use of self-defense. I don't have any statistics to confirm or deny that claim, but for what it's worth, that may be a significant reason that civil immunity is not a high priority.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 05-01-2014 at 12:59 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I just want to reiterate that the combination of the fourth amendment + prohibition renders this sort of thing inevitable. They cannot co-exist.

    Y'all know which my preference is for.

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    Regular Member SAvage410's Avatar
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    I just finished reading "Last Call: The Rise and Fall of Prohibition" by Daniel Okrent. It's an excellent read, and illustrates just how little we've learned from our own sorry history. While it is prohibition-specific, I find that its lessons apply equally well to the War on (Some) Drugs, no-knock warrants, police militarization, official corruption and the like.

    Highly recommended for insight into our current dilemma.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAvage410 View Post
    I just finished reading "Last Call: The Rise and Fall of Prohibition" by Daniel Okrent. It's an excellent read, and illustrates just how little we've learned from our own sorry history. While it is prohibition-specific, I find that its lessons apply equally well to the War on (Some) Drugs, no-knock warrants, police militarization, official corruption and the like.

    Highly recommended for insight into our current dilemma.
    Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do lean from history are doomed to watch the rest repeat it.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do learn from history are doomed to watch the rest repeat it, and be dragged into it.

    stay safe.
    Fixed it for you.
    Even the speeling.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 05-02-2014 at 06:06 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Fixed it for you.
    Even the speeling.

    Thanks ever so awfully.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    From the description of the "execution" of the warrant- this was a "no-knock" style/type of warrant. Is anyone familiar with any special requirements (IN VIRGINIA) for this type of warrant? It seems extreme to break down the door of a 75 year old grandmother without some sort of justification. She could have suffered a heart attack from the shock.
    There are none. That is the precise evil that the "castle doctrine" which is part of the law of Virginia since 1603 is directed against. (Va. Code sxns 10299, 1-201). There is no such thing as a "no-knock warrant" in Virginia. Heaton v. Commonwealth, 215 Va. 137, 207 S.E.2d 829 (1974). Note that this has absolutely nothing to do with cases holding that searches and seizures undertaken once officers are inside a dwelling are "reasonable" under the Fourth Amendment. Once they're in, it doesn't matter much whether they're there legally or not, saith the United States.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    And in what contributes to the "parts are spread out all over the legal landscape," I have been assured by a very "gun-friendly" member of the House of Delegates that Virginia's being a strong Contributory Negligence state makes it very difficult (nothing is impossible in the legal system) to be found civilly liable in a clean use of self-defense. I don't have any statistics to confirm or deny that claim, but for what it's worth, that may be a significant reason that civil immunity is not a high priority.

    TFred
    As soon as a politician says "don't worry about it" is when you should start worrying about it. A contributory negligence defense is usually just part of a defense. So it will take a trial. A civil trial can cost from 40-100K and a criminal trial about the same. And if you kill someone on your land ... you may get both.

    Civil immunity is not a high priority because it strengthens the RKBA. Any of your "gun-friendly" friends who would not support immunity are not your friend at all.

    Why should you have to consult with Westlaw when someone is on your land and may be a threat when you should just be able to consult with Smith & Wesson and deal with the issue.

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    As always,

    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    There are none. That is the precise evil that the "castle doctrine" which is part of the law of Virginia since 1603 is directed against. (Va. Code sxns 10299, 1-201). There is no such thing as a "no-knock warrant" in Virginia. Heaton v. Commonwealth, 215 Va. 137, 207 S.E.2d 829 (1974). Note that this has absolutely nothing to do with cases holding that searches and seizures undertaken once officers are inside a dwelling are "reasonable" under the Fourth Amendment. Once they're in, it doesn't matter much whether they're there legally or not, saith the United States.
    Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. I have very little faith in our gubermant the older I get.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. I have very little faith in our gubermant the older I get.
    The nice thing about User's comments is he tells it the way it should be and the way it really is in today's world.
    That as opposed to one fellow here that claims to be a lawyer and tells it the way it is in the Sunday Comics.

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